62 replies to this topic

[Rawd]

Your tables are much better KungfuSteve. Welcome back, we missed you!

[bent98]

A Pro? If you are taking Programming, maybe.. but Art-wise? Sorry, Not even close.

Firstly, I appreciate that effort put into the simulation. However, does that give everyone the right to change the way the machines are supposed to look? This programmer has nothing to do with the Ownership or Creation of Jokerz.

How Do you think the Original Artists feel... Who painstakingly picked out vibrant colors to use, put in tons of work and details, and then they see someone take a dump on it like this?

There Should be standards to recreations of other designers works.
If its your Own creation, make it pitch black. Make a Porn theme. Do whatever you want. But others works? Its not right.

If your not good at Art and Layouts that have proper lighting... Have a real artist do that part.
Why make the table look like a pathetic disaster, just to say you did it all by yourself?!

Furthermore, if you wish to release a modified version, you should at Least release a standard version first, out of mere respect and historical accuracy.

Dude,

Are you for real? Just reimport the orginal PF from JP's table. It takes all of two seconds. Whats the problem? Thats what I did. Stop pissing and moaning about it. Don't waste Rosve's precious time with this nonsense.

[TheMcD]

Every recreation in VP is inherently inferior to the original, as such, complaining about the art being inferior to the original, while completely ignoring that the tables don't play exactly how the designer originally thought it up is hypocritical.

Technically, we're raping the original image the designers and artists created just by creating a virtual copy of it which is nothing more but a mockery of the original. And yet, you aren't even mentioning the designers? What about the sound guys, whose work is ruined by inaccurate emulation?

You're preaching accuracy to an original image that we cannot reach even in our wildest dreams. That is bloody ridiculous.

The McD

[Noah Fentz]

A Pro? If you are taking Programming, maybe.. but Art-wise? Sorry, Not even close.

Firstly, I appreciate that effort put into the simulation. However, does that give everyone the right to change the way the machines are supposed to look? This programmer has nothing to do with the Ownership or Creation of Jokerz.

How Do you think the Original Artists feel... Who painstakingly picked out vibrant colors to use, put in tons of work and details, and then they see someone take a dump on it like this?

There Should be standards to recreations of other designers works.
If its your Own creation, make it pitch black. Make a Porn theme. Do whatever you want. But others works? Its not right.

If your not good at Art and Layouts that have proper lighting... Have a real artist do that part.
Why make the table look like a pathetic disaster, just to say you did it all by yourself?!

Furthermore, if you wish to release a modified version, you should at Least release a standard version first, out of mere respect and historical accuracy.

There are standards to recreations. You set the standard by choosing which tables you download and which you keep.

Sadly, oftentimes it is more difficult to set standards on the quality of posts. If there were, this post would certainly not have made the cut.

Please refrain from insulting our members, especially those who work very hard for mere thanks in return for all of their hard work.

Thank you.

[FDSystems]

I´m Karate Kid & do not agree with kungfuzinho.

I´m taekwondobill & I fell like do!do!do!do! kungfuzinho.

I´m 1234fd & I don´t want to throw silverballs to anybody but do not provoke.

[pinuck]

I get a "variable is undefined line 660 B2SUpdateLED" script error.
Thanks for any help

Make sure you've put the latest B2S.vbs that comes with the download in your tables folder - i think the older version will cause that error.

[JAM0]

I get a "variable is undefined line 660 B2SUpdateLED" script error.
Thanks for any help

Make sure you've put the latest B2S.vbs that comes with the download in your tables folder - i think the older version will cause that error.

That fixed the problem Thanks pinuk!

Edited by JAM0, 12 October 2011 - 08:38 AM.

[JAM0]

I get a "variable is undefined line 660 B2SUpdateLED" script error.

Thanks for any help

Same here. I played around with my table / exe name a bit and found out that I got all tables working when skipping spaces between the words.
ex. Jokerz! (Williams 1988).vpt didn't work... renamed to Jokerz!_(Williams_1988)_B2S worked!

Remember to change all HyperPin related files too if you are using that fe!

That didn't work for me but thanks for the response

[rosve]

I get a "variable is undefined line 660 B2SUpdateLED" script error.

Thanks for any help

Same here. I played around with my table / exe name a bit and found out that I got all tables working when skipping spaces between the words.
ex. Jokerz! (Williams 1988).vpt didn't work... renamed to Jokerz!_(Williams_1988)_B2S worked!

Remember to change all HyperPin related files too if you are using that fe!

That didn't work for me but thanks for the response

You must get the new B2S.vbs file (Version 3). Copy it from the downloaded rar archive.

[JAM0]

Thanks rosve, It's working for me now And thanks for all the fantastic work you have done!!!!

Edited by JAM0, 12 October 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[Wiggly]

Hi Rosve. I love these newer moving back glasses coming to Visual Pinball!

I realize you can only do so much and troubleshoot based on your hardware configurations. It is not an enviable position to have to work with the variables presented by X86, X64 systems.

I'm still having big stutter problems with the current B2S systems only and I've been trying to track down the cause. I tried your suggestions of switching to 16 and many of the other suggestions. I've even gone so far as knocking off some sound calls and removing bits of the animations a bit at a time.

The only real reason I keep posting about it is first off because they are awesome and second that I have no problem with very intensive UVP versions of the table and that other B2S tables work without a hitch.

I have absolutely no stutter with Elvira or any of the reel tables even the Soccer which also has background animation. The super cool baseball batter gimmick also works perfectly. The only thing that the other tables have in common is that they are not alpha numeric.

If there comes an opportunity or interest to add the cannon animation to Cirque Voltaire I'd be interested if that would exhibit no stutter.

I'm all up for helping to test I'm just not skilled at vbs language. I'm even having trouble doing those mechanical plunger adaptations.

[rosve]

Hi Rosve. I love these newer moving back glasses coming to Visual Pinball!

I realize you can only do so much and troubleshoot based on your hardware configurations. It is not an enviable position to have to work with the variables presented by X86, X64 systems.

I'm still having big stutter problems with the current B2S systems only and I've been trying to track down the cause. I tried your suggestions of switching to 16 and many of the other suggestions. I've even gone so far as knocking off some sound calls and removing bits of the animations a bit at a time.

The only real reason I keep posting about it is first off because they are awesome and second that I have no problem with very intensive UVP versions of the table and that other B2S tables work without a hitch.

I have absolutely no stutter with Elvira or any of the reel tables even the Soccer which also has background animation. The super cool baseball batter gimmick also works perfectly. The only thing that the other tables have in common is that they are not alpha numeric.

If there comes an opportunity or interest to add the cannon animation to Cirque Voltaire I'd be interested if that would exhibit no stutter.

I'm all up for helping to test I'm just not skilled at vbs language. I'm even having trouble doing those mechanical plunger adaptations.

If you are running VB in compatilbility mode then try to disable it. I have found that at least Win 7 don't perform well when compatibility mode is enabled.

Edited by rosve, 13 October 2011 - 04:01 PM.

[Wiggly]

Its nice to see Jokerz... however, its a real shame that this, and many like it, are butchered with being too dark.

Pinballs were NOT played in Pitch Black arcades. Arcades were a little dim, but Nothing like what you
have going on here.

Perhaps your monitor has a narrow viewing angle because to me, the lighting on the lower gamma tables look much more realistic. I had the issue with the tables looking too dark with my old monitor. The TV that I replaced it with has a much higher angle of view that stays consistent across the entire screen.

I'd love to have a thread where we could list the tables with think have the most realistic looking renderings. Of course art is individual perception but, it might give the creators a better idea of what the community really digs.

As mentioned in other words, compared to physical tables you will not be able to reach the depth of field with flat monitors. Emulation cabs provide a slightly different tactile experience as well but get us the closest to a pinball-type of experience that is definitely not a video game experience but something unique to itself. It's also out of passion that the tables are created or recreated and offers the player a chance to explore tables which they might not have even known about let alone play.

What I consider to be a more natural relation to the non lit and lit areas of tables like this increase the type of immersive feeling you can achieve through virtualization. There is also a stark difference between Flinstones Night Mod and a table like Pinball Pool. To me some of the tables I loose myself in visually are Pinball Pool, Unclewilly's Xenon, the night skin on Seawitch (which I consider to be more natural than a Night Mod) as well as his Bad Cats. Lights on a real table can also not come close to monitor based emulation especially if the colors of the lit and non lit version of the table are too similar. This table as well as the others mentioned (including the new B2S release of Cyclone which really blasts your eyes when the lights get flashing).

Perhaps the gamma is off or at a bad viewing angle. I say, "look again."

[dgrein]

I did a seach for B2S.vbs and rar archive, and I come up with nothing. Can please tell me where I can find the below file? Assuming I need to below to run any B2S games? Thanks.



You must get the new B2S.vbs file (Version 3). Copy it from the downloaded rar archive.

I get a "variable is undefined line 660 B2SUpdateLED" script error.

Thanks for any help

Same here. I played around with my table / exe name a bit and found out that I got all tables working when skipping spaces between the words.
ex. Jokerz! (Williams 1988).vpt didn't work... renamed to Jokerz!_(Williams_1988)_B2S worked!

Remember to change all HyperPin related files too if you are using that fe!

That didn't work for me but thanks for the response

You must get the new B2S.vbs file (Version 3). Copy it from the downloaded rar archive.

[pinuck]

I did a seach for B2S.vbs and rar archive, and I come up with nothing. Can please tell me where I can find the below file? Assuming I need to below to run any B2S games? Thanks.

the .rar file is the archive (like a .zip) that you get when you download the table. In there is the table, the backglass, the b2s.vbs file, etc.
In other words, it's included with the table download.

[dgrein]

I did a seach for B2S.vbs and rar archive, and I come up with nothing. Can please tell me where I can find the below file? Assuming I need to below to run any B2S games? Thanks.

the .rar file is the archive (like a .zip) that you get when you download the table. In there is the table, the backglass, the b2s.vbs file, etc.
In other words, it's included with the table download.

Great Thanks!

[ninjitsu12]

hello to a table giving this error in the script on line 660
B2SUpdateLed Variable not defined

[kungfusteve]

Perhaps the gamma is off or at a bad viewing angle. I say, "look again."

Im an semi decent artist. As such, Im very aware of color and contrast accuracy.. as well as display
calibration.

Currently, Im running an Industrial 21" CRT monitor that can go up to 2048x1536 ! The colors and contrast is far superior to most any LCD display.. let alone a standard PC monitor. Its also well calibrated.

And furthermore, Ive tested my personal color recognition and accuracy, to 100% recently, on a special online web test.

Feel free to try the test yourself:
http://www.xrite.com...geID=77&Lang=en

Ive noticed that a lot of people who took the same test, got at least 25% wrong. It was shocking to me. However, it goes to show you that while you may not be color blind... your eyes just are not sensitive enough to discern the various shades and hues. Meaning.. what looks good to you, isnt the same as what looks good to others... let alone anywhere near 100% color accurate.

Of course, then theres all kinds of artistic flaws in lighting and shading that are being made. The most basic of beginner artists can spot these miles away. And these flaws are not small. They create major irritation because they are so Loud and awful. (such as a darkened playfield, but parts on the field are bright as if its daylight)


http://vpforums.org/...184/jokerz0.jpg

In this example pic, we see two ok examples of a Jokerz up top. One is lit normally, in average lighting. The other, is in a dark environment, but lit with LEDs. I dont have access to better pics at the moment. However, One can clearly see that these pics are far superior to the Crap VP creations shown below them.

Lighting from pop bumpers fills the top area with a nice red glow. Typical lights give that warm yellowish lighting, and extend into the playfield art. The visibility, color and clarity of the artwork is present. Not pitch dark, dull, missing color shades..etc.

The game was not designed to be played in complete darkness. Its meant to be seen in average to slightly dim lighting... so you can actually see the wonderful artwork on the playfield. Else they would never have put so much time, effort, and color into the artworks.

The replication is atrocious in every way. Its not even close.

[tamoore]

Well, would you look at Mr. perfect here. Please redraw the jokers play field and post your results. It should be amazing. We'll all be waiting........

Perhaps the gamma is off or at a bad viewing angle. I say, "look again."

Im an semi decent artist. As such, Im very aware of color and contrast accuracy.. as well as display
calibration.

Currently, Im running an Industrial 21" CRT monitor that can go up to 2048x1536 ! The colors and contrast is far superior to most any LCD display.. let alone a standard PC monitor. Its also well calibrated.

And furthermore, Ive tested my personal color recognition and accuracy, to 100% recently, on a special online web test.

Feel free to try the test yourself:
http://www.xrite.com...geID=77&Lang=en

Ive noticed that a lot of people who took the same test, got at least 25% wrong. It was shocking to me. However, it goes to show you that while you may not be color blind... your eyes just are not sensitive enough to discern the various shades and hues. Meaning.. what looks good to you, isnt the same as what looks good to others... let alone anywhere near 100% color accurate.

Of course, then theres all kinds of artistic flaws in lighting and shading that are being made. The most basic of beginner artists can spot these miles away. And these flaws are not small. They create major irritation because they are so Loud and awful. (such as a darkened playfield, but parts on the field are bright as if its daylight)


http://vpforums.org/...184/jokerz0.jpg

In this example pic, we see two ok examples of a Jokerz up top. One is lit normally, in average lighting. The other, is in a dark environment, but lit with LEDs. I dont have access to better pics at the moment. However, One can clearly see that these pics are far superior to the Crap VP creations shown below them.

Lighting from pop bumpers fills the top area with a nice red glow. Typical lights give that warm yellowish lighting, and extend into the playfield art. The visibility, color and clarity of the artwork is present. Not pitch dark, dull, missing color shades..etc.

The game was not designed to be played in complete darkness. Its meant to be seen in average to slightly dim lighting... so you can actually see the wonderful artwork on the playfield. Else they would never have put so much time, effort, and color into the artworks.

The replication is atrocious in every way. Its not even close.

Edited by tamoore, 23 November 2011 - 10:25 AM.

[thewool]

@kungfusteve

in the time it took you to write that spiel and compile that lovely montage of images you could have exported the original PF images from JP's table and re-inserted them into the B2S version. Or if you're a semi decent artist as you say, why not just export the same images and adjust them for your own industrial monitor.

Authors make these tables for their own enjoyment and then (if we're lucky) share them for ours. I can't understand why people feel they have the right to criticise sometimes... That's the good thing about VP, the majority of things aren't locked. If you don't like something you can simly change it yourself.