96 replies to this topic

[Dazz]

In my research, I've found that most people defending the selling of stuff like this... Tend to be the ones doing the selling. I wouldn't be surprised if WWW is one of the people selling DVD's and trying to justify it by defending it.

[zoltar420]

This is an example of what I see all the time, this guy is promising 400+ working games on his virtual pin and he even has Noah's name on the cabinet as well as Hyperpin logo's pasted all over it.

Hyperpin with 400+ games


Thanks Zoltar

[grimwasere]

The thing is you dont sell a cabinet with all the software anyone who reads these boards knows that the tables and backglasses and some of the software were probably downloaded by someone who had been on this site these guys stepped over the edge and were informed about it , id say this ones a result,with no real harm done

we can argue the rights and wrongs forever,

but would any of the guys who have contributed to this site be happy if their little program, backglass ,pin table,diagram,get used in a machine without permission for someone else to make money off?

we are all lucky we are allowed to use the table designs and roms ,some of the attitudes are slightly wrong 99% of table makers on here can quite easily mass produce these tables for profit but dont . if it isnt stopped where will it end? oh i quite like shrek or tron lets rip the roms get my friend to alter a program and i can sell it and make a packet.

and noah keep up the good work

[wildman]

This is an example of what I see all the time, this guy is promising 400+ working games on his virtual pin and he even has Noah's name on the cabinet as well as Hyperpin logo's pasted all over it.

Hyperpin with 400+ games


Thanks Zoltar

he didnt say it comes with 400 games on it
it say it plays 400+ games big diff.....................................................
and thats not the same noah that was the name of an arcade if i remember right...

Edited by wildman, 05 July 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[Dazz]

This is an example of what I see all the time, this guy is promising 400+ working games on his virtual pin and he even has Noah's name on the cabinet as well as Hyperpin logo's pasted all over it.

Hyperpin with 400+ games


Thanks Zoltar

Ya know... If it's a single one time sale I don't see an issue with it. $3,500 sounds like a reasonable price for the pc, screens cabinet and cabinet hardware. He's not making much, if any, profit. Where I start having an issue is if the person is using a business model and selling more than a single unit. That's where the person has crossed the line.

There is a difference between someone selling just to get rid of it and someone selling to make a profit.

Edited by Dazz, 05 July 2011 - 09:21 PM.

[TheMcD]

...I have to admit, "Noah's Arc" is a pretty catchy name. I don't know why, but I really like it. Even if it's "ark", not "arc", unless he was going for the actual "arc", which I doubt fits.

The McD

[Dazz]

Noah's Arcade was also the name of the Arcade in Wayne's World.

[wildman]

...I have to admit, "Noah's Arc" is a pretty catchy name. I don't know why, but I really like it. Even if it's "ark", not "arc", unless he was going for the actual "arc", which I doubt fits.

The McD

Noah's Arc was the name of a arcade D ..which i saw somewhere..

Ok try this if I walk by your house and see a window open and see your wife or girlfriend naked and take a pic and sell it on the net..Is this wrong? your window was open so isnt that public domain ?
YOUR WINDOW WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC....Why dont some of you get it ...its not yours simple..you dont own it..you didnt make it.. THERES NOTHING TO SAY OTHER THAN THAT... SIMPLE...

[zoltar420]

This is an example of what I see all the time, this guy is promising 400+ working games on his virtual pin and he even has Noah's name on the cabinet as well as Hyperpin logo's pasted all over it.

Hyperpin with 400+ games


Thanks Zoltar

he didnt say it comes with 400 games on it
it say it plays 400+ games big diff.....................................................
and thats not the same noah that was the name of an arcade if i remember right...

Its misleading and in his description he put "Hyperpin/Visual Pinball - 400+ Working Games" sounds to me like 400+ working games going to be on it.... also he never states that roms wont be on it...


but anyhow, I get what you mean Dazz, as long as thier not using your product to make themselves a constant profit ... I am worried about losing roms somehow because of all of this. The dmd and realistic game play is a big drawing point for virtualpin, hopefully people will stop including this stuff and instead make a helpful guide included in their sale showing how to find games/roms and install them and bring more people into the community and in the mean time sell their cabinets. Or perhaps the seller includes a virtualpin package in his sale and donates to the VP site on a account for their client... then the community gets donation and the client gets unlimited downloads on games and roms for certain amount of years.

Zoltar

[wildman]

This is an example of what I see all the time, this guy is promising 400+ working games on his virtual pin and he even has Noah's name on the cabinet as well as Hyperpin logo's pasted all over it.

Hyperpin with 400+ games


Thanks Zoltar

he didnt say it comes with 400 games on it
it say it plays 400+ games big diff.....................................................
and thats not the same noah that was the name of an arcade if i remember right...

Its misleading and in his description he put "Hyperpin/Visual Pinball - 400+ Working Games" sounds to me like 400+ working games going to be on it.... also he never states that roms wont be on it...


but anyhow, I get what you mean Dazz, as long as thier not using your product to make themselves a constant profit ... I am worried about losing roms somehow because of all of this. The dmd and realistic game play is a big drawing point for virtualpin, hopefully people will stop including this stuff and instead make a helpful guide included in their sale showing how to find games/roms and install them and bring more people into the community and in the mean time sell their cabinets. Or perhaps the seller includes a virtualpin package in his sale and donates to the VP site on a account for their client... then the community gets donation and the client gets unlimited downloads on games and roms for certain amount of years.

Zoltar

I think you got it

[webby]

It makes all the difference in the world if it is sold with software. The car analogy is wrong.

More like a computer company selling Windows on their PC's without paying the license.

Hi Guys,
I would say this analogy is also wrong.

I see people all the time on ebay selling VP/FP on CD and stating that the buyer is only paying for the CD and delivery as software is free.
Whilst i am certainly not condoning what these people are doing couldn't these guys making pinball cabinets just state buyers only pay for hardware and service even though they supply the cab with the software.
It may be a 'legal' way around it?
Webster

[wildman]

Noah's Arcade was also the name of the Arcade in Wayne's World.

knew it sounded familar
Regional chain of video game arcades located in the Auroa Ill. area in the movie waynes world 1. Owned and operated by Noah Vanderhoff, who was formaly involved in meat packing (lips and hooves)
Noah: Come bust a move where the games are played. It's chill, it's fresh, it's Noah's Arcade!

Wayne: A sphincter sez what??

Noah: What?

[Noah Fentz]

It makes all the difference in the world if it is sold with software. The car analogy is wrong.

More like a computer company selling Windows on their PC's without paying the license.

Hi Guys,
I would say this analogy is also wrong.

I see people all the time on ebay selling VP/FP on CD and stating that the buyer is only paying for the CD and delivery as software is free.
Whilst i am certainly not condoning what these people are doing couldn't these guys making pinball cabinets just state buyers only pay for hardware and service even though they supply the cab with the software.
It may be a 'legal' way around it?
Webster

Have you seen the price put on some of these?

$8, $12, £5, £12?

That doesn't include postage on them, either.

I know I can buy blank DVD's for less than a buck a piece.

Yeah, they're making money.

Besides, wouldn't it be the same as burning mp3's and selling them on Ebay and claiming not for profit?

It's simply not legal.

[ynneBBenny]

In my research, I've found that most people defending the selling of stuff like this... Tend to be the ones doing the selling. I wouldn't be surprised if WWW is one of the people selling DVD's and trying to justify it by defending it.

Now turn the villagers and their hoes and axes to within themselves.
Just because a guy has a differing opinion, doesnt make him the enemy. Dont accellerate this into something it isnt pal.
I'm quite embarressed for you by making that comment.

Rawd, I never said anything about selling ROMS, but I did mention about buying the download service. I also mentioned about buying the cheapest download service to elliminate profiteering.

I love the way people are all defensive about ROMs that they dont own themselves.

My guess is that 99.99 % of all users here have ticked the MAME popup, declaring they own the ROM.

In my research,

Is there a doctor in the room? Yeh over there, a doctor of piracy research. (Embarressing)

Befor that post it was a discussion without names. Your post introduced name calling and false accusations, thinly disguised as "Research"
I demand an apology.

Edited by WWW, 05 July 2011 - 11:31 PM.

[Rawd]

Rawd, I never said anything about selling ROMS, but I did mention about buying the download service. I also mentioned about buying the cheapest download service to elliminate profiteering.

I love the way people are all defensive about ROMs that they dont own themselves.

My guess is that 99.99 % of all users here have ticked the MAME popup, declaring they own the ROM.

You've completely lost me..

To be clear: Do you see a problem with selling cabinets with Hyperpin, Pinmame, VP, Roms and tables installed? That is what we are discussing.

If you don't see a problem with it, then I will just shake my head and agree to disagree.

I don't own any roms. I play them illegally, but I have never tried to sell one.

I have had offers for hundreds of dollars to ghost my cabinet HD and refused.

[Noah Fentz]

Let's drop the accusations and finger pointing here, guys. No point in being at each others' throats when there are so many other throats out there!

[Zablon]

...I have to admit, "Noah's Arc" is a pretty catchy name. I don't know why, but I really like it. Even if it's "ark", not "arc", unless he was going for the actual "arc", which I doubt fits.

The McD

Noah's Arc was the name of a arcade D ..which i saw somewhere..

Ok try this if I walk by your house and see a window open and see your wife or girlfriend naked and take a pic and sell it on the net..Is this wrong? your window was open so isnt that public domain ?
YOUR WINDOW WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC....Why dont some of you get it ...its not yours simple..you dont own it..you didnt make it.. THERES NOTHING TO SAY OTHER THAN THAT... SIMPLE...

Bad analogy because this happens all the time to celebrities (private time photos clothed or nude taken then sold to tabloids/sex sites etc.). Very seldom does any legal recourse come of it.

I have had offers for hundreds of dollars to ghost my cabinet HD and refused.

Playing devils advocate here, but would you ghost it for free? En mass? Just curious because the shady grey line everyone is walking is a bit blurry from this side. Everyone can say this or that about the right or wrong, but people are going to do it. It's the bane of emulation and always has been. Hell it's been going on in computer software since the beginning. If you all want to police the internet so be it, but I'd rather just enjoy the tables.

[Noah Fentz]

Playing devils advocate here, but would you ghost it for free? En mass? Just curious because the shady grey line everyone is walking is a bit blurry from this side. Everyone can say this or that about the right or wrong, but people are going to do it. It's the bane of emulation and always has been. Hell it's been going on in computer software since the beginning. If you all want to police the internet so be it, but I'd rather just enjoy the tables.

It's not quite as simple as that, for VPF, at least.

If this becomes extremely problematic, then we could lose our ability to host the ROMs, as they would actively enforce pulling them from the entire net. (I already got a 7am wake up call about this.) We currently have permission to do what we do, and other than ipdb.org, I doubt any other site can say that.

That being said, if we want to continue enjoying our hobby, there are certain precautions we have to take to ensure our own longevity.

Naturally, this doesn't mean everyone must remain vigilant at all times and seek out infringement. It just means if you are aware of it, let us know.

[Itchigo]

Question: Is it ok to have VP installed on the cab, but with no tables? Maybe a direction as to where to get them? That way you get the benefit of it being installed properly but aren't messing with people's work. It's only a question as I don't want to pull a ******.

[Noah Fentz]

VP must be licensed to be distributed in a commercial unit.