79 replies to this topic

[cupid]

Thanks!

So it seems to be that 23 bpp on "some" ATI cards is broken. Unfortunately, i can't debug this, since the ATI card i had lend me (and test-installed VP on a spare Hard-Disk), did not show this error in 32bpp.

But to be honest, there is not much difference in 32 bpp and 16 bpp. I bet, that you would see the difference, if we had realtime shadows in VP (which we don't have).

So at the moment (until the whole "graphic state change - mess" is rewritten, i recommend to stay at 16 bpp for ATI users.

Cupid

Edited by cupid, 07 March 2011 - 09:33 PM.

[Mitchell]

16 bpp doesn't change anything. I test it. lol

[epthegeek]

I wonder if you have issues if the desktop setting and VP setting for color depth don't match. I had non-transparent ramps (not speckled like shown in d3xtro's post - just not see through) in VP until I upped my desktop BPP to 32 -- but I didn't look at what the setting was in VP. I'll have to check that tonight. See if I can bump them both down to 16 with the same result.

[Mitchell]

What I'm thinking that the new VP is confused on my Window 7 Home Premium 64-bit on which settings it is running on. Might be trying to run on 16 and 32 at the same time. I did change the setting on the monitor and seem the same to me.

[R-DuB]

Setting VP to a 16bit worked for me, looks great now.
Awesome!

[Signet]

Setting VP to a 16bit worked for me, looks great now.
Awesome!

Sweet! Setting it to 16 bit worked for me as well. Before, the vast majority of tables had a ton of graphical / texture glitches on pretty much any moving part (e.g., Red/Ted's jaws, AFM's spaceship, etc.). Setting it to 16 bit fixed it. (note: I left Hardware Rendering checked too). Using an ATI 4870x2 card @ 1920x1080.

-Sig

[Captain Flemme]

Hi,

I was to sad because i couldn't play the new table on the new version of VP with my ATI Radeon HD4850.

But when i put 16bits colors it worked well !!!!!



YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Thanks

PS: i tried some tables to see if it works with all one. in the table independence day the ship didn't appear and is reaplaced by a blue square.

Edited by Captain Flemme, 09 March 2011 - 12:25 AM.

[requlem]

YEAH!!!! THX ITS WORK!! now i can continue with rollergames

[cupid]

Nice that this is a workaround for most people until it is fixed again.

What i really don't understand is:
If you have graphic problems, why don't you test another mode by yourself. Sorry, if i have graphic problems in any game (like i had with Slammit Pinball), i try to solve it by my own. For Slammit, i have set it to 16bpp, too, and everything worked (Although i have a NVidia). That's only three clicks for you. VP is not Starcraft or anything, where some dev-stations with different ATIs is no problem (since it's a huge $$$Business). We have VP, that's open source and more or less a underground thing. The whole community is asked to participate in the dev of the program. If you don't know how to program, you may have the time and knowledge to help in other ways. Instead of "ATI and VP does not work", it would be great if you take the time to check under what circumstance this error occours. Look at d3xtros post. He did try it. If you have access to a dual boot, some spare drives or some graphiccards, just try them and post your findings as exactly as possible.
I don't want to flame anybody with this post. And i'm not angry of anything. Just think about it.

Again on topic:

@mitchell: Did you set 16bpp in VP AND in Windows? Did you turn off these ATI "helpers/forcers/overriders", that override the settings from games? I have seen such settings in the ATI control panel (ATI A.I. and others), and if I remeber correctly there is a setting to override bpp modes, too. But i don't know this for sure, since i don't tweak my graphic cards at all (and have again installed a nvidia, since i could not reproduce this error)

Cupid

[Captain Flemme]

Nice that this is a workaround for most people until it is fixed again.

What i really don't understand is:
If you have graphic problems, why don't you test another mode by yourself. Sorry, if i have graphic problems in any game (like i had with Slammit Pinball), i try to solve it by my own. For Slammit, i have set it to 16bpp, too, and everything worked (Although i have a NVidia). That's only three clicks for you. VP is not Starcraft or anything, where some dev-stations with different ATIs is no problem (since it's a huge $$$Business). We have VP, that's open source and more or less a underground thing. The whole community is asked to participate in the dev of the program. If you don't know how to program, you may have the time and knowledge to help in other ways. Instead of "ATI and VP does not work", it would be great if you take the time to check under what circumstance this error occours. Look at d3xtros post. He did try it. If you have access to a dual boot, some spare drives or some graphiccards, just try them and post your findings as exactly as possible.
I don't want to flame anybody with this post. And i'm not angry of anything. Just think about it.

Again on topic:

@mitchell: Did you set 16bpp in VP AND in Windows? Did you turn off these ATI "helpers/forcers/overriders", that override the settings from games? I have seen such settings in the ATI control panel (ATI A.I. and others), and if I remeber correctly there is a setting to override bpp modes, too. But i don't know this for sure, since i don't tweak my graphic cards at all (and have again installed a nvidia, since i could not reproduce this error)

Cupid

Hello Cupid,

I tried a lot of things, old drivers al the possible combination of options, with all the programs in memory killed exept VP .....

But a so simple thing never came to my mind !!!!! i couldn't think to this !!!

Sorry to bee dumb .

Edited by Captain Flemme, 10 March 2011 - 02:39 AM.

[Mitchell]

Well MAME doesn't have a problem running with a ATI graphics card. I can't see why VP having so much problems running with a ATI hardware and drivers.

This is VP 9.1.0, 9.1.1 and 9.1.2 problems on my end.

This VP seem not fully compatible to run with a ATI hardware and drivers. I beginning to think VP have some bugs left over in the core that never been fix over the years.

===================================================

Can you add a option to where we can check the boxes to disabled things? Even get VP to where we can switch to 16 bit or 32 bit on full screen? A lot of programs have these kind of things.

Edited by Mitchell, 10 March 2011 - 09:52 AM.

[cupid]

Well MAME doesn't have a problem running with a ATI graphics card. I can't see why VP having so much problems running with a ATI hardware and drivers.

Me, too, as well as the other devs. If i knew why VP has so many probs with ATI, i would just change it...

Can you add a option to where we can check the boxes to disabled things? Even get VP to where we can switch to 16 bit or 32 bit on full screen? A lot of programs have these kind of things.

???? Video Options ????
You can set bpp, and several other things.


If we would add every new feature with an option to turn on and off, the code would be horrible slow and impossible to maintain.

Once again my questions:
Did you set 16bpp in VP AND in Windows? Did you turn off these ATI "helpers/forcers/overriders", that override the settings from games? I have seen such settings in the ATI control panel (ATI A.I. and others), and if I remeber correctly there is a setting to override bpp modes, too. But i don't know this for sure, since i don't tweak my graphic cards at all (and have again installed a nvidia, since i could not reproduce this error)

Edited by cupid, 10 March 2011 - 12:14 PM.

[destruk]

VP has nothing to do with MAME. That would be like - well, Windows doesn't have any graphics problems so it must be something wrong with VP? Apples/Oranges. My car has no problem with graphics modes either - everything renders perfectly in my car - I see the steering wheel just fine...

[TedB]

^
||




In every thread about the recommended setup, the graphics card that is recommended is: NVIDIA, so I don't see the problem. My advise to all complainers: sell your ATI and buy the card that devs use so they can focus on more important stuff.

That cupid is trying to help these guys is really nice of him though. I think a bit of appreciation and providing a detailed error report is a better response then just complaining.

Edited by TedB, 10 March 2011 - 05:12 PM.

[TheMcD]

What, compatibility with the two main graphics card providers isn't important anymore? Really? What about the people with laptops? Should I build a new computer just for VP? You would just pass us ATI users by to work on "more important stuff"?

Imagine there's another game with problems on NVIDIA cards. What now? Should I keep two different graphics cards on standby just in case? Build two computers?

Compatibility with ATI and NVIDIA should be a focal point of development. I mean, what's the most important thing about a game? Well, being able to bloody play it, of course! After screwing about for quite a while and thanks to Sleepy's help, I managed to find the problem source in my case, which was unbearably slow gameplay on Windows 7 - I'm talking 2 FPS here. I solved it by disabling DirectDraw, but that won't help the people with graphical problems. Hey, the transparent ramps don't look like they should over here as well, but I'm already happy I can even play!

But the thought of using a certain graphics card just for one single program is ridiculous.

The McD

[TedB]

But the thought of using a certain graphics card just for one single program is ridiculous.
The McD

Why? It is a free program and devs spend time on stuff they think is important. If they are all buying NVIDIA cards your safest bet is NVIDIA.

I had an ATI card that didn't give me the results I liked so I bought a new one and I would even have bought a new computer if needed. I think there are more important issues and that is my personal opinion. In this case there are other options. Also my opinion became stronger because of the whining I see in this thread, and I am not talking about people who just share their issues with an ATI card.

BTW. I think cupid is giving more than enough support for ATI users.

[cupid]

But the thought of using a certain graphics card just for one single program is ridiculous.
The McD

Why? It is a free program and devs spend time on stuff they think is important. If they are all buying NVIDIA cards your safest bet is NVIDIA.

I had an ATI card that didn't give me the results I liked so I bought a new one and I would even have bought a new computer if needed. I think there are more important issues and that is my personal opinion. In this case there are other options. Also my opinion became stronger because of the whining I see in this thread, and I am not talking about people who just share their issues with an ATI card.

BTW. I think cupid is giving more than enough support for ATI users.

I just want to find out, if we have two or one bug... We had several ATI cards in test and could not reproduce the error for now. So we need more "qualified" input under what cirumstances these errors occur.

[FDSystems]

From another post of mine:

CAN´T BELIEVE IT !

An UncleWilly´s table playing on my laptop with almost no stutter !

VPMan/VP912/HR Render on/ 1368 X 768 16bits !

Thanks Uncle Willy, I had renounced to play your tables on this machine,as they would just crash it. From now on I´ll be waiting for the next ones.
*

VP is on the right way!
A huge thank you to the dev-team & everybody else making this possible!


*pirated from PinballNirvana

This post has been edited by 1234fd: Yesterday, 10:47 PM

My laptop is a really crappy one (look at my sig)
The previous one , low end ACER was not much better.
My two previous PC, at work, all of the had ATI card & I have always been able to play almost all the tables except Noahs & UncleWilly´s ones, Cueball from JP.

I´d never been able to find a "universal" setting.

Possible solutions

VPMan (thanks Fartian!)

It has features to control the definition, to Disable DirectDraw, AntiAliasing, etc

The Vp Editor, now your can automatically reduce the size of the pictures, Hr Render,REORDER, definition, etc...
Catalyst control Center if you use it with plenty of options....

Your video card settings.

The video settings of your monitor.

Al this gives you a lot of possible settings.............

A lot of experimenting,
A lot of patience,
A bit of luck too,
Happy pinballing!

Edited by 1234fd, 11 March 2011 - 02:44 AM.

[Captain Flemme]

Once again my questions:
Did you set 16bpp in VP AND in Windows? Did you turn off these ATI "helpers/forcers/overriders", that override the settings from games? I have seen such settings in the ATI control panel (ATI A.I. and others), and if I remeber correctly there is a setting to override bpp modes, too. But i don't know this for sure, since i don't tweak my graphic cards at all (and have again installed a nvidia, since i could not reproduce this error)

Hello,

My windows is set to 32 bpp. i set only VP in 16bpp.

You're right we can override the settings from the game ad replace it by a default configuration from the control panel of the drivers but i don't use it.

i also use the specificc onfiguration of the card, like catalyst AI to advanced and adaptive anti-aliasing to enable.

i don't see what you mean when you talk about override bpp mode ???

Captain Flemme

[cupid]

i don't see what you mean when you talk about override bpp mode ???

Captain Flemme

Thanks.

I mean, that you can tell the driver to ignore if 16bits is set inside vp. It always goes to 32 bit. But if you don't set such things, all is OK.

That questions went to mitchell.

Edited by cupid, 10 March 2011 - 09:22 PM.