1103 replies to this topic

[DesertStorm]

DesertStorm - it looks like you've got everything wired correctly...

 

> But if I bring my hand near the expansion board, the motor starts to work,

> in all the outputs.

 

Hmm, that suggests to me that you have a bad connection somewhere. What you're probably doing by moving your hand around is placing a static charge on a disconnected logic pin, which is raising or lowering the charge on the pin enough to flip a logic level from 0 to 1 or vice versa, or maybe charge one of the MOSFET gates.  That *shouldn't* happen, because everything that could be affected like that should already be connected internally to a nice solid logic 0 or 1 voltage level all the time, and that should always readily overwhelm the effect of any static charge from placing your hand near the board.  So the fact that is happening suggests that there's a loose or broken connection somewhere, so that a logic pin is "floating" without a solid connection to any reference voltage.  Given that it affects all the ports, I'd guess it's one of the main data connections going into the TLC5940s, or maybe one of the power connections. 

 

The first thing to check is probably the ribbon cable connecting the two boards.  Make sure it's seated firmly on both ends, and check that the ribbon cable plugs are well seated on the cable.  You might try getting out a pair of pliers and squeezing the connectors on the end of the cable a little bit (with the cable unplugged) just in case one of the IDC pins didn't quite pierce the insulation properly when it was originally assembled.  If that doesn't make any difference, I'd get out a magnifying glass and go over the bottom of the power board to see if I could spot any bad solder joints - places where it looks like there's a gap between the solder and the leg of an IC pin, for example.

 

 Thankyou to your support, I explained that to the builders and they will replace the boards. I hope everything works well from that moment.

[yagesz]

Do RGB Flashers need resistors still?

If I use the RGB stars from the guide on here by GTXjoe do I still need a set of resistors to keep it in check?

[mjr]

Do RGB Flashers need resistors still?
If I use the RGB stars from the guide on here by GTXjoe do I still need a set of resistors to keep it in check?

 

Yes.  All of the standard rules for LEDs apply: 

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...id=ledResistors

 

(The exception, also outlined in the link above, is the "Small LED" ports on the main expansion board.  The Small LED ports provide their own current limitation, which is the function that the resistors perform, so you don't need external resistors on those.)

[yagesz]

Do RGB Flashers need resistors still?
If I use the RGB stars from the guide on here by GTXjoe do I still need a set of resistors to keep it in check?

 
Yes.  All of the standard rules for LEDs apply: 
 
http://mjrnet.org/pi...id=ledResistors
 
(The exception, also outlined in the link above, is the "Small LED" ports on the main expansion board.  The Small LED ports provide their own current limitation, which is the function that the resistors perform, so you don't need external resistors on those.)

After reading that does any flasher work? Or only low power ones? I don’t see anything listed in it.

[mjr]

After reading that does any flasher work? Or only low power ones? I don’t see anything listed in it.

 

Did you read this?

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...p?sid=psOutputs

 

That will hopefully clear up where you can connect what.

[yagesz]

Got it. Makes sense now


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[yagesz]

I have been using my pinscape nonstop lately and I love it. However...

My shaker and Knocker are both wired directly to the pinscape board expansion. Diodes are installed. When the system goes full nuts and turns everything on in play it will crash my main pc? Am I putting too much through the basic expansion board? It’s only when my shaker (stern Spike model) or my data east knocker shoots that it crashes my main pc.

Am I overpowering it or something?


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[mjr]

I have been using my pinscape nonstop lately and I love it. However...

My shaker and Knocker are both wired directly to the pinscape board expansion. Diodes are installed. When the system goes full nuts and turns everything on in play it will crash my main pc? Am I putting too much through the basic expansion board? It’s only when my shaker (stern Spike model) or my data east knocker shoots that it crashes my main pc.

Am I overpowering it or something?

 

If it's crashing the PC, something's definitely wrong!  I don't think you're overloading any of the electronics if it's "just" a PC crash and no physical damage is done.  If you were overloading something it would be more likely to show up as some component overheating and melting/smoking/otherwise being destroyed.  PC crashes can happen due to voltage spikes from inductors, but the diodes normally take care of that, so you have that base covered. 

 

So if we can rule all of that out, my guess is that you're momentarily overloading your PC power supply.  Not overloading in the sense of frying it, just in the sense of going over its built-in current limiter.  ATX supplies have current limiters, typically little heat-sensitive known as PPTCs or resettable fuses, that will kick in if the current goes over a certain threshold.  If you're powering all of this from your PC power supply, it's quite plausible that you're triggering that.  That would cut power momentarily at the ATX supply, which would obviously make the PC reset.  An actual short usually shuts things down for a few minutes since the limiter gets so hot so fast, but a situation like this where you go just over the threshold would let it reset quickly, so it would manifest as a brief interruption and a PC reset.

 

The easiest solution, if this is the problem, would just be to add another power supply for the shaker and knocker. 

[yagesz]

I had a 750w gold Corsair that was powering am i7 and a gtx1080ti. I have another 600w driving the pinscape and all the toys. They 750w is not connected in any way to the pinscape other than a usb to the kz25l. The 750w supplies died when the shaker went off. The 600w is completely unharmed.


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For the moment I have all my toys off until I figure out what fried a non connected psu


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[mjr]

I had a 750w gold Corsair that was powering am i7 and a gtx1080ti. I have another 600w driving the pinscape and all the toys. They 750w is not connected in any way to the pinscape other than a usb to the kz25l. The 750w supplies died when the shaker went off. The 600w is completely unharmed.

 

So the 750W primary is permanently dead?  That's very strange...  The PC itself is okay, though?

 

 

For the moment I have all my toys off until I figure out what fried a non connected psu

 

Yeah, that definitely seems like a good call until you figure out what happened.

 

If the PC is okay, it seems really unlikely that the shaker was actually responsible for the 750W PSU failure.  For one thing, if the shaker somehow overloaded the 750W, the electrical path between the shaker and the 750W would have been through your motherboard.  Any surge big enough to kill the PSU would surely have done even more harm to the motherboard.  For another, it's just hard to kill ATX power supplies in general, at least with current overloads.  They have pretty solid protection built in, in the form of a resettable fuse, usually a PPTC.    With most of them, you can short the + and - directly together and they'll just shut themselves down temporarily, and be perfectly happy to go back to work after they cool off (and after you resolve the short, obviously). 

 

So I don't know... maybe it was pure coincidence.  Maybe it was a completely unrelated PSU failure, like a power spike from the house wiring, or a defective part in the PSU.

 

You might do some checking online to see if the 750W has a regular non-resettable fuse inside it.  That's pretty rare - back in the early days of ATX they added the resettable overload protection requirement to the spec because they didn't want users opening the things up to replace fuses.  But maybe not entirely unheard of.

[yagesz]

Will look for the rest. But I have other psus. They are hooked up. And do the exact same thing. They overload them shut down.


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[mjr]

Will look for the rest. But I have other psus. They are hooked up. And do the exact same thing. They overload them shut down.

 

Oh, interesting.  If it's repeatable with different units then it's clearly not a defective PSU.  

 

I'm still unclear - is the 750W permanently destroyed, or does it just reset and continue working?

[yagesz]

It works but not properly. If I load it in a pc it won’t start the pc. If I use my breakout board I can voltages but after a small load it shuts down.


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Could house grounding be a problem?


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[mjr]

Could house grounding be a problem?

 

That's an interesting possibility.  ATX power supplies reference their 0VDC to the Earth ground provided by your house wiring, so if you don't have proper grounding in the house wiring, your 0VDC levels are "floating".   The ATX designers considered that a safety hazard, but it's also possible it's contributing to the weirdness you're seeing.

 

You said you don't have the two ATX power supplies connected together in any way, right?  You might want to try interconnecting their 0VDC (black wires).  If you have normal house wire grounding, that happens automatically through the house ground.  But if the house wiring is questionable, you might need to manually interconnect them to get a stable 0VDC reference.

Edited by mjr, 15 February 2018 - 09:03 PM.

[yagesz]

Ok. Will try that in a minute. And I’m going to go find my ground tester for work.


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[yagesz]

Ok.....

Grounded the supplies to create a reference 0V as you said. Game was working good. Shaker was no longer killing the machine. I load ACDC because I know the coin button triggers the knocker.

Poof. PSU on the Main computer #2 is dead. Warranty too thank god. But what am I overlooking? The contactors are all wired with 24V and have No problem during multiball nothing. But the knocker will cause a surge to blow the other PSU. I even replaced the knocker diode.

 

House wiring is properly grounded. 

Red lead in right plug. Black In left plug. 120v

Red lead in right plug. black in ground hole. 120v

 

Is me having the PC on one surge protector and the DOF supplies on a seperate surge plugged into the first one a problem?

 

I have another PSU I can keep testing with but I don't want to blow another.  Would removing the 24v ATX PSU and using a 12v to 24v step up board be a better idea?

ALSO>>>>
Everytime I walk up to the machine it will surge and flash the strobes, hit knocker (very lightly) and a couple rgbs. Do I need to do something else?

Edited by yagesz, 16 February 2018 - 08:46 PM.

[mjr]

> Grounded the supplies to create a reference 0V as you said. Game was working

> good. Shaker was no longer killing the machine.

 

Well, that's good so far...  that does suggest that the ATX supplies weren't connecting via the AC ground wiring.

 

> I load ACDC because I know the coin button triggers the knocker.

> Poof. PSU on the Main computer #2 is dead. 

 

But that's not good!

 

Is the knocker wired to that 24V supply, or something else?

 

Do you have the DC "-" on the 24V supply also connected to the ATX DC grounds?  It really should be if it's not - same reasons the ATX supplies need this.  That might be the source of the knocker problem.  The various power supplies will find other paths through the circuitry to equalize voltage levels if they don't have all of their 0V lines connected.

 

 

> Everytime I walk up to the machine it will surge and flash the strobes, hit knocker

> (very lightly) and a couple rgbs

 

Do you mean that this happens when the machine is already on and you get near it, or this happens each time you power up the machine?  If it's on power-up only, that's fairly normal.  The output logic circuits start off in randomized state, so there's a brief moment where they can be randomly on before the software starts up and resets everything to off state.  If it's happening randomly when the machine is already on, it sounds like there's some other grounding problem going on.

[yagesz]

All 3 psu are connected by ground. Have always been except the main one until today.

Yes machine already on. I love in Wyoming we get wicked static electricity due to how dry it is here.

The 24v goes to a terminal strip first then the knocker.


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[mjr]

[weird output glitching when approaching the machine - does it happen when the machine is already on or just when booting?]

 

Yes machine already on. I love in Wyoming we get wicked static electricity due to how dry it is here.

 

Okay, that seems like something must be wrong at a connection level.  Even if the static levels are pretty high it really shouldn't do that. 

 

You can deal with the static issues to some extent by making sure that all of the external metal is wired together with a grounding strap to Earth ground - plunger, side rails, lock bar, legs, etc.  Given your staticy environment that would probably be a good idea in general, and of course it's good for human safety reasons anyway.

 

But the glitching makes me think there might be some other issue, like a bad ground or power connection somewhere on the boards.  (Not necessarily at the power plug level - I'm just talking about connections between parts, like ground and Vcc pins on the ICs and so forth.)

[yagesz]

[weird output glitching when approaching the machine - does it happen when the machine is already on or just when booting?]
 
Yes machine already on. I love in Wyoming we get wicked static electricity due to how dry it is here.

 
Okay, that seems like something must be wrong at a connection level.  Even if the static levels are pretty high it really shouldn't do that. 
 
You can deal with the static issues to some extent by making sure that all of the external metal is wired together with a grounding strap to Earth ground - plunger, side rails, lock bar, legs, etc.  Given your staticy environment that would probably be a good idea in general, and of course it's good for human safety reasons anyway.
 
But the glitching makes me think there might be some other issue, like a bad ground or power connection somewhere on the boards.  (Not necessarily at the power plug level - I'm just talking about connections between parts, like ground and Vcc pins on the ICs and so forth.)

So how do I fix this? And my machine worked great for 2 months with all these toys before a problem started


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