975 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I'm sure I'm missing something somewhere, but I don't see a wiring diagram for using the KL25Z with arcade buttons anywhere.  can someone point me to one?  

 

Here you go:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...php?sid=buttons

[mk47]

Hi,

 

yesterday i accidently "crashed" one of my two KL-25z's when updating in on Win10. I forgot that it had an old bootloader.

Luckily I was able to "reanimate" it using an old Win7 laptop.

 

While the Pinscape Config Tool is already a great piece of softwar, I think there's still space for small improvements.

A situation like I faced yesterday could be avoided if the config tool auto detects the current state controls the wizard accordingly.

As soon as you plug the KL-25z programming port (with or without holdling the reset button) you can access a file named SDA_INFO.htm.

 

You could easily parse this file and extract the values for BOOTVER, APPVER and MICORVER.

 

If the BOOTVER is for example 1.09 you can recommend to update it to at least 1.11 using a Win7 computer.

[Nutmegz]

What nudge settings is everyone using on VPX with the pinscape? I can't seem to get it right.

[nsa1955]

Greetings. I just hooked up and programmed my FRDM 25 card but have a couple of issues. Number one, all the tables with a plunger are showing it "chattering" so much that is launches the ball on its own. I am using a Launcher style fire button that was original on Data East Star Wars (the cabinet I am converting). Is there some adjustment I need to make since I am not using a plunger?

Next issue, when I am in the setup software and go into button test I find that button 6 is showing as being ON constantly. This is strange since I have nothing assigned to this button. 

Last issue, when Pinscape is hooked up and PinballX launches the tables fly by on the bottom left side like the flipper is being held closed. 

 

If anyone can help me figure these issues out I will a happy camper. Really liking it, but need to resolve these issues in order to really be able to use it.

 

Thanks!

[mjr]

Greetings. I just hooked up and programmed my FRDM 25 card but have a couple of issues. Number one, all the tables with a plunger are showing it "chattering" so much that is launches the ball on its own. I am using a Launcher style fire button that was original on Data East Star Wars (the cabinet I am converting). Is there some adjustment I need to make since I am not using a plunger?

 

Yes - the default configuration is set up for the TSL1410R plunger, which reads pixel values on one of the GPIO ports, so what's going on is that it's reading random electrical noise on that GPIO port (since you've got nothing connected there) and that's causing the random noise on the plunger readings.  

 

You just need to run the Config Tool, go to the Settings page, scroll down to the Plunger section, and change the plunger sensor type to "None".  Click "Program KL25Z" at the bottom and you should be set.

 

 

Next issue, when I am in the setup software and go into button test I find that button 6 is showing as being ON constantly. This is strange since I have nothing assigned to this button. 

 

I'm assuming you don't have anything wired to any of the GPIO ports for buttons, or at least nothing wired to that button.  It's just the electrical noise issue again.  You can probably just ignore it, since the defaults for all of the buttons are joystick buttons, and those won't do anything on the PC side unless you specifically assign them to something in VP and other software.  But if it's bothering you, go to the Settings page again, and just set all of the buttons to "Not Connected" in the port selection boxes.

 

 

Last issue, when Pinscape is hooked up and PinballX launches the tables fly by on the bottom left side like the flipper is being held closed. 

 

I'll bet this is related to the button wiring - maybe my claim that "this won't affect the PC side" isn't quite true after all!  You probably have a setting in PinballX to read one of those Pinscape buttons that registering as stuck on.  You can probably fix that in the PinballX settings by un-assigning all of the joystick buttons in its keyboard setup, or you can just un-wire the buttons on the Pinscape side as described above.  The latter is probably the better solution in that it will ensure you don't have similar bad joystick button data feeding into other programs that might be looking for joystick input by default.

[nsa1955]

This was extremely helpful. Thank you for your quick response.

[1907]

Hi mjr

Thank you very much for your fantastic work on this project and thank you for sharing all your hard work with us!

Can you give me some information about the PWM frequency of the KL25Z outputs?
Are the outputs running on very low frequency? On some dimming steps I get terrible flickering at my 24V LED Stripes (maybe 100Hz or so).
I cant figure out the problem. I use Darlingten Arrays and Lowlevel MosFets to drive the 24V.

[mjr]

Can you give me some information about the PWM frequency of the KL25Z outputs?
Are the outputs running on very low frequency? On some dimming steps I get terrible flickering at my 24V LED Stripes (maybe 100Hz or so).
I cant figure out the problem. I use Darlingten Arrays and Lowlevel MosFets to drive the 24V.

 

I take it you're connecting directly to KL25Z PWM GPIO ports?  The PWM cycle on those is 20ms (50 Hz).  

 

Are you using your own driver circuit design for this?  It's possible that it's a timing issue in the Darlingtons or MOSFETs, since some of those can be pretty slow.  You might also try adding a small resistor (<100 ohms, maybe something in the 22 to 47 ohm range) directly in front of the MOSFET gate.  That's the standard remedy for the common "gate ringing" effect you can get in some MOSFETs when they're switched on and off rapidly, which conceivably could manifest this way.

 

Have you enabled gamma correction on the ports?  That wouldn't have any direct effect on flicker, but it would improve the visual linearity of the brightness during fades, so it might create a better overall impression.

 

Do only see the flicker during fades?  Not when the lights are just constantly on at a given brightness?  If so, I doubt it has anything to with PWM cycle or flicker per se, since it's the same cycle time whether you're in a fade or not.  Are you perhaps seeing "glitches" rather than flicker?  By glitch, I mean a sudden and momentary jump to full brightness or zero brightness in the course of a fade.  Older versions of the firmware had this problem because of a bug in the mbed PWM controller library.  Newer versions have a fix that eliminates it.  If that's what you're seeing, and you're on an older firmware version, updating might fix it.

 

The other thing I'd try is testing from the Pinscape Config Tool rather than from VP or a DOF tester.  Click the Output Tester button on the main page.  Scroll down to the ports where the light strips are attached.  Use the slider to test fades there and compare to the results you're seeing in VP.  That would tell you if the problem is in the hardware or the PC-side software.

[1907]

Thank you for your fast response and your good tips.

 

Yes I have connected the circuit directly to the GPIO Ports. The darlingtons are connected direkt to the Output-Ports. With this Darlingtons I switch 12V over a Pullup-Resistor and this signal is wired directly to the MosFET-Gate. Maybe you are right an this is not a proper circuit for this use. I use 3kOhm for Pull-up the Signal. With this I get about 6V at Gate if GPIO-Port is low and about 0,6V if the GPIO is high.

The Outputs are also negated by the Pinscape Config tool.

I am not sure, but I think PWM-cycle is not the value I mean. 50Hz would be really low. Should this value not be in the kHz Range for LED use? Maybe I don't know the exact English word for this, but I mean with PWM-frequency "how many Voltage-Peaks will be created per second" If this is really 50Hz this maybe to low for LED's and you can see this typically "low-frequency-flickering" like the old CRT TV screens. I think more Voltage Peaks per Minute, but for that shorter "on-times" will result in less flicker.

I see this flicker also at my 12V Button-Lighting wich are controlled directely by the Darlingtons (without additional MosFET)

Only the Coin-Door Lighting doesn't flicker, because of standard lightbulbs (these react obviously sluggish).

 

I played around with the gamma correction, but this doesnt affect the problem really. It shifts the effect only to another value.

 

The flicker is not especially visible during fading but also at constant values. The effect becomes worse, if more than one color is mixed together. For example it is very bad, if i take red and green to 50%.

At very low or high settings (<20% and >90%) there is barely a flicker effect.

And if you move your head, or the LED lights are actually not in your field of view, this flicker effect is getting worse, too.

 

All test were made with the Pinscape config tool - so I can exclude it is a software issue.

I use the newest firmware version.

 

Sorry for my amateurish expression. My electronics experience an knowledge is yet not so good ;-)

[mjr]

Yes I have connected the circuit directly to the GPIO Ports. The darlingtons are connected direkt to the Output-Ports. With this Darlingtons I switch 12V over a Pullup-Resistor and this signal is wired directly to the MosFET-Gate. Maybe you are right an this is not a proper circuit for this use. I use 3kOhm for Pull-up the Signal. With this I get about 6V at Gate if GPIO-Port is low and about 0,6V if the GPIO is high.

 

That should be a perfectly good circuit for it, but it could depend on the parts - do you have the part numbers for the Darlingtons and MOSFETs?  Darlingtons in particular can have rather slow switching times.  I really doubt this is it, since the speeds involved aren't all that high, but it's worth double-checking.

 

 

I am not sure, but I think PWM-cycle is not the value I mean. 50Hz would be really low. Should this value not be in the kHz Range for LED use? 

 

No, we're talking about the same thing - it really is 50 Hz for the PWM cycle time.  That is a little slow for LEDs, but not all that slow - 100Hz would be more typical.  You're probably thinking of a different figure that you see for PWM applications, which is the "PWM clock" rate.  That's a different thing that's more typically in the kHz or even MHz range.  The cycle time, which is the time from one pulse to the next, is a certain number of those clock ticks.  In the KL25Z case, the PWM clock is running at 3 MHz and the cycle time is 60,000 ticks or 20ms.  

 

The KL25Z PWM module is actually capable of going faster than this - the native clock can run at up to 48 MHz with a period down to around 1ms (1000Hz).  However, there's that hardware problem (that thing that causes the fade glitching that I mentioned before) that forces us to keep it a bit higher for my workaround to work; we probably shouldn't try going faster than around 5ms/200Hz.  I could try making a testing version for you with that change if you wanted to see if that helps.  It would actually be worthwhile for testing if the driver circuit is responsible, since a faster PWM rate would tend to make things *worse* if the electronics have anything to do with it.

 

Here, just compiled it with a 5ms/200Hz cycle time:

 

mjrnet.org/pinscape/downloads/Pinscape_Controller_KL25Z_20180127_pwm200Hz.bin

You can use the config tool to install that - click "Browse for a file" at the bottom of the firmware version list to select this file instead of one of the regular versions.  If it doesn't help, you can always go back to an older version.

 

I don't think there's any downside to increasing the rate like this, so I'll probably leave this in the for next regular version in any case, but let me know what you find with it.

[1907]

That's so kind of you that you're doing so much work for me.

 

I use "ULN2803APG from Toshiba" and "IRL540 N-MOSFET from IR"

Thank you very much for compiling an extra test version for me.

I will try it tomorrow and tell if it helps.

Now I have go to bed ;-)

[mjr]

I use "ULN2803APG from Toshiba" and "IRL540 N-MOSFET from IR"

 

Those should be just fine - those look like good fast parts.  The Darlingtons are usually the limiting factor in these things, and those are rated at 200ns turn-off time, so that should be no problem.

 

 

I will try it tomorrow and tell if it helps.

Now I have go to bed ;-)

 

Great, let me know if how it goes.

[1907]

Hey mjr you are my "hero of the day" 

Do you have an "Donate-Button" at your Website? I would like to invite you to a beer

 

I tried the new firmware from you.

This solves nearly all flicker problems at my system.

If you look closely and focus on that you can still see minimal flickering, but it is a difference like day and night compared to before!

You can see still minimal flicker, if you move your head, but without movement the most flicker has gone.

 

I'm just wondering why I'm obviously the only one who sees the flicker at 50 Hz. Maybe some people are more or less sensitive to this effect.

 

I made some tests with my mobile-camera at 1/30s exposure time. While I move the cam fast, I took some photos.

With the standard firmware I see the LED's nearly 2-3 times at the photo. This means 2-3 flickers per 1/30s. So this should be 60-90Hz

With your new 200Hz firmware I see the LED's about 7 times at the photo. This means 7 flickers per 1/30s. So this should be 210Hz.

This measurement is not particularly scientific, but sufficient to illustrate the positive effect.

Pity that I obviously can not upload any pictures in the forum, then I could show you.

 

Here is also an interesting Thread about LED-flicker with PWM:

https://electronics....equency-for-led

In the most sources in www, they recommend a PWM frequency for LED's between 300Hz and 1kH.

 

Maybe there is a posibility to improve the effect, by give each output channel a little difference frequency.

but I am very happy with the current situation.

 

Thank you so much.

Edited by 1907, 28 January 2018 - 09:53 AM.

[marc9]

Hi, i'am trying to setup nudging. My KL25Z board ports facing rear and is standing on the little feet horizontally. When i lift for example the front of the board the joystick status window shows two directions (left and down). I have another KL25Z board which is doing the same. Maybe i'am missing something.

 

Here is the test in detail:

All tested with the KL25Z board ports facing rear!

Ports facing front in the config:

lifting front: left + up
lifting back: right + down
lifting right: left + up
lifting left: right + down

Ports facing left in the config:

lifting front: left + right
lifting back: left + right
lifting right: up
lifting left: down

Ports facing right in the config:

lifting front: left
lifting back: right
lifting right: up + down
lifting left: up + down

Ports facing rear in the config:

lifting front: left + down
lifting back: right + up
lifting right: right + up
lifting left: right + down

 

Marc

Edited by marc9, 28 January 2018 - 10:53 AM.

[mjr]

 

I tried the new firmware from you.

This solves nearly all flicker problems at my system.

If you look closely and focus on that you can still see minimal flickering, but it is a difference like day and night compared to before!

 

Great - glad that helped! 

 

I looked again at that hardware bug fix code I mentioned, and it turns out it doesn't set a maximum clock speed after all, so I've increased it further to 2 kHz.  I just released a regular update with that change.  That's in the base code now so it'll stick around in future updates as well.

 

 

I'm just wondering why I'm obviously the only one who sees the flicker at 50 Hz. Maybe some people are more or less sensitive to this effect.

 

Some people are definitely more sensitive to it than others, but I suspect it's just a matter of how most people use LEDs on cabs.  I don't have any LEDs on my own cab that are both constantly lit and in direct view.  The ones you view directly on my cab are the flashers and strobes, and you'd never notice flicker on those because they only turn on in short bursts.  My undercab LEDs do stay on steadily, of course, but those are just for ambient light, and you never look directly at them.  So the way I use LEDs, it doesn't really matter how much flicker there is; it's not very noticeable just because of the way the LEDs are deployed.  I think most people have similar setups.

 

 

Maybe there is a posibility to improve the effect, by give each output channel a little difference frequency.

 

That's not possible on the KL25Z hardware, I'm afraid.  The hardware only has three PWM generator modules that are shared by the 10 channels (one module has 6 channels, and the other two have two channels each), and the frequency is set at the module level rather than the channel level.  So in principle you could have three different frequencies across the 10 channels, but that's as far as you could go with it.

[1907]

I looked again at that hardware bug fix code I mentioned, and it turns out it doesn't set a maximum clock speed after all, so I've increased it further to 2 kHz.  I just released a regular update with that change.  That's in the base code now so it'll stick around in future updates as well. 

Wow, what great news.
I'm really thankful.
you're doing a great job

[mjr]

Hi, i'am trying to setup nudging. My KL25Z board ports facing rear and is standing on the little feet horizontally. When i lift for example the front of the board the joystick status window shows two directions (left and down). I have another KL25Z board which is doing the same. Maybe i'am missing something.

 

Looks like you found a major bug!  I just did some testing and saw the same thing.  The problem is that I screwed up the rotation adjustment a couple of updates ago when I added the stuttered report timing.  I'll fix it and post an update.

 

Quick workaround should be to go to the Joystick section in the config and change the settings like so:

 

Joystick report interval: 16.667

Accelerometer "stutter": 1

Edited by mjr, 28 January 2018 - 08:53 PM.

[mjr]

Okay, I just posted an update to the firmware with the joystick reporting fix - hopefully that'll fix it for you.

[marc9]

 

Hi, i'am trying to setup nudging. My KL25Z board ports facing rear and is standing on the little feet horizontally. When i lift for example the front of the board the joystick status window shows two directions (left and down). I have another KL25Z board which is doing the same. Maybe i'am missing something.

 

Looks like you found a major bug!  I just did some testing and saw the same thing.  The problem is that I screwed up the rotation adjustment a couple of updates ago when I added the stuttered report timing.  I'll fix it and post an update.

 

Quick workaround should be to go to the Joystick section in the config and change the settings like so:

 

Joystick report interval: 16.667

Accelerometer "stutter": 1

 

Thank you very much!!!

 

 Marc

[Brer Frog]

Okay, I just posted an update to the firmware with the joystick reporting fix - hopefully that'll fix it for you.

 

I just got the KL25Z board & tried to read through most of this thread but am not sure where to get the latest software.

 

I came across this link. Is it the best place to go?

http://mjrnet.org/pi.../swversions.php