3889 replies to this topic

[chepas]

Something strange happens copying these lamps this way every time, it's happened before but never been able to reproduce it again until now. Lots of ways around it no problem , just letting you know.

 

[toxie]

@kiwi: could you file a bug with a simple repro-table please, so that we can fix that?

[fuzzel]

Because of a round ball: How does TPA or ProPinball solve that problem? The balls are absolutely round there...

I guess they use a fixed FOV and that's exactly the way I want to with VP too. The way the perspective matrix is done is really strange and there were some hacks in VP9 to overcome this.
Now we are in 3D land and VP needs a rework of the camera settings.

[toxie]

 

The light bulbs reflecting on the ball is really cool! However, is there a way to script which bulbs get reflected? I would like to not have bulbs above or below certain Heights not reflect. Is that something that is possible?

Thanks
-Mike

 

This question kind of got passed over so I thought I would put out a demo of why I would like this. To maybe spark some interest.

 

insert lights demo

 

-Mike

 

 

rev 1647 adds an additional checkbox to each bulb light that lets you in/exclude it from the reflection

Edited by toxie, 05 February 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[kiwi]

@kiwi: could you file a bug with a simple repro-table please, so that we can fix that?

Done, is in the bug tracker.

 

Max

[ICPjuggla]

I agree with everyone here an easier way to do lain guides would be awesome.

The old way is very time consuming.

The new rubbers are awesome and much easier to do maybe you guys can figure out a way to do the lain guids like you did the rubbers.

[jimmyfingers]

 

 

The light bulbs reflecting on the ball is really cool! However, is there a way to script which bulbs get reflected? I would like to not have bulbs above or below certain Heights not reflect. Is that something that is possible?

Thanks
-Mike

 

This question kind of got passed over so I thought I would put out a demo of why I would like this. To maybe spark some interest.

 

insert lights demo

 

-Mike

 

 

rev 1647 adds an additional checkbox to each bulb light that lets you in/exclude it from the reflection

 

That will be very useful in spots / scenarios!  And it was something regarding lights where I wasn't the one requesting the changes this time

[lio]

...

Now we are in 3D land and VP needs a rework of the camera settings.

 

One thing I don't get about VP's camera is how the front seems to get cut off (see left side of attached image) if you don't have a high wall in the back (right side) - it looks like the camera is placed inside of the object.

 

I wanted to place 3D cabinet on a table outside of the table boundaries, hoping that this way I could create an easy way for desktop and cabinet render mode and hoping these would not trigger any automatic changes to the camera position - which seems to work in part as 3D meshes don't seem to trigger that behavior in the camera system - so the camera stays where I want it to BUT the lockdownbar does not render unless I put some high wall in the back.

I know you can work around that with the different backdrop settings (zoom, layback, offset, etc.) but I hoped to stay independent of those (if that makes any sense).

Attached Files

•  vp-cab-wall.jpg   37.05KB   18 downloads

[chepas]

To place other objects (like a proper lockdown bar with depth not flat) beside your table, I've been sticking an invisible ramp to make them show correctly. Just put it near your object. I even shoved the whole FP room in on one test I did, and for that I had a massive ramp, obviously no good but that's how I get them to appear.

 

Even had to do it just for my apron earlier. Just winging it.

https://www.dropbox....ed/odd.png?dl=0

Edited by chepas, 05 February 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[lio]

Thanks for the hint, the ramp fixes the rendering problem but it also affects the camera position but in a less drastic way.

 

Also am I missing something or is there currently exactly one kind of bumper and one kind of spinner available?

How would you switch bumper caps [edit: ok, I guess you just turn off cap visibility and place another model on top] or say create a longer spinner of the same height - right now the spinner just becomes larger overall when you change the length (overhang doesn't seem to do anything)

Edited by lio, 05 February 2015 - 09:54 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

 

Because of a round ball: How does TPA or ProPinball solve that problem? The balls are absolutely round there...

I guess they use a fixed FOV and that's exactly the way I want to with VP too. The way the perspective matrix is done is really strange and there were some hacks in VP9 to overcome this.
Now we are in 3D land and VP needs a rework of the camera settings.

 

This sounds somewhat dangerous in removing / setting a fixed FOV and limiting abilities to alter the camera perspective too much as there are a lot of view preferences for all the end users and more than just the standard FS and desktop views as with the more recent HV view, that does not get a lot of press on this site, but is a great way to simulate standing in front of a real machine with a portrait mode16:9 display.

 

I've personally redone my mini-cab to use one single screen in an HV set-up (loving it) and I've needed every bit of every adjustment available to get a view to look relatively decent compared to when standing in front of a real machine - losing FOV settings as it stands would kill the ability to do that.  The desktop view looks good in one sense, but it also makes things look as if you're 10 years old playing the machine with your head only a foot or so above the table and your nose right up next to it.  The FS mode often makes one look as if they're standing right over the table but oddly the flippers still angled more than would be the case if looking straight down. View settings need to be able to accommodate standing back and above from a table and it has been very important to use FOV up until now to achieve that.  The more recent addition of Z offset has helped in conjunction with still the need in altering all other parameters for as an ideal view as possible.

 

In this view below you'll see a natural down view of the flippers with a fairly over-head more than from the back perspective (a nice compromise between the two extremes I think) and allows for gradual increase in angle of objects up towards the top of the table to help with the impression of looking into it.  Although this is part of what the HV approach is about (and gets some of it's roots for sure from desktop mode), it would not have been achievable at all without the ability to alter the FOV settings.

 

 FP HV Capture.png   1.82MB   27 downloads

Edited by jimmyfingers, 05 February 2015 - 10:14 PM.

[lio]

I'm all for the flexibility you mentioned! Great idea with that single-screen-cab by the way!

But I agree with fuzzel that the results need to be more consistent - i.e. currently running VP with the exact same FOV etc. settings gives you different results depending on the resolution (or rather aspect ratio) you use.

The table should be rendered with the same camera distance etc. (provided the same settings of course) no matter what resolution you are using - obviously the sides would be cropped for less wide screens on lower angles for example but the representation of the table on screen should be the same no matter if you use 1920x1200 or 1600x1200.

Edited by lio, 05 February 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[freneticamnesic]

That's a good looking Firepower there jimmyfingers

[bolt]

Your Firepower looks great .

[jimmyfingers]

It's 80% complete as far as the VP10 conversion goes and I was hoping to release it by this weekend for people to try.  However, I don't think I'll get enough done / time to complete by then and am going to not be able to work on VP tables / testing this weekend.  It's also a BMPR hybrid like I posted in the other thread (http://www.vpforums....firepower +bmpr) so I wanted to let others maybe first get pure VP10 / PhysMODv5 based physics tables up and demonstrated first to not muddy the waters on the physics / game play feel.   The one in the capture is not from the conversion and the VP10 one looks even nicer but subtle (still a lot of credit to Noah and UncleReamus as there original was pure eye candy with great detail).

 

I will provide some settings for an HV view at some point as it will still be a WIP and not a formal release as there is still lot's going on and can change with all the beta testing now.  I am actually using dB2S still and just have my monitor rotated to portrait in Windows using 0 / 360 in VP.  I can write up something in another thread about how I did it (keeping dB2S on top as well) that might save people time as this way you don't have to redo the backglasses on each table and can just resize the dB2S to the right fit for a flasher / ramp based backglass back drop.  It's not totally finished / automated yet so I have to still use a few keystrokes and window highlights but I'm sure that can be done with some more AutoHotKey work.

 

That all being said, the view settings and configurability saved my butt for being able to make it all work.  It would be great to have like what lio says with the lack of changes from one resolution to the next but still be able to set the general view and stance of the "player" / camera to how one wishes without the adverse effects (and of course being able to leave room for the backglass as with the HV views).  

 

By the way, it was Rascal who first came up with the HV concept / view - great idea he had!

[Xendo]

One thing that drove me crazy in VP9 was how decals are handled.  Is there anyway to be able to size/shape decals like walls are done?

[fuzzel]

I just want to clear something on the camera settings in VP. Yes it's not good but the FOV is somewhat coupled to the resolution (http://en.wikipedia...._in_video_games). The problem with the egg shaped ball is that the FOV together with the scaling of the table isn't correct. I'm working on a new camera system at the moment but it's not easy to find a good automatic way of calculating good starting settings. So while I'm developing that you have to stick to the current solution

[jimmyfingers]

Happy to stick to the old way  However, I know that I'm in a minority now for how to set-up my views being that my rig is an HV configuration and luckily now I don't even have to use layback so a reasonable amount of egg shape distortion from that parameter can can be potentially eliminated, although I've seen some good HV views that still have some layback al beit a negative value.  There are still some angled distortions but it's not nearly has bad for Desktop or HV view as unfortunately FS / cabinent users who rely on layback / FOV combinations primarily for a good progressive z-angled look without narrowing the table top too much.

 

One good thing about the egg shape and the somewhat different way that VP10 is displaying tables / the ball, is that I was able to find a reasonably decent looking FS view for the Firepower conversion that had very little egg shaping going on.  It was using settings that previously would have made things look a bit nuts, but with VP10 are in range I think to be a substitute.  It did have a bit more angle at the top then one might be used to for a cabinet and especially a 80s pin but it looked reasonable and most of all I didn't notice too much ball distortion.  I'll try and dig it up / post the settings and see what people think (maybe with the ball in lower and upper positions).

[kruge99]

 

 

Because of a round ball: How does TPA or ProPinball solve that problem? The balls are absolutely round there...

I guess they use a fixed FOV and that's exactly the way I want to with VP too. The way the perspective matrix is done is really strange and there were some hacks in VP9 to overcome this.
Now we are in 3D land and VP needs a rework of the camera settings.

 

This sounds somewhat dangerous in removing / setting a fixed FOV and limiting abilities to alter the camera perspective too much as there are a lot of view preferences for all the end users and more than just the standard FS and desktop views as with the more recent HV view, that does not get a lot of press on this site, but is a great way to simulate standing in front of a real machine with a portrait mode16:9 display.

 

I've personally redone my mini-cab to use one single screen in an HV set-up (loving it) and I've needed every bit of every adjustment available to get a view to look relatively decent compared to when standing in front of a real machine - losing FOV settings as it stands would kill the ability to do that.  The desktop view looks good in one sense, but it also makes things look as if you're 10 years old playing the machine with your head only a foot or so above the table and your nose right up next to it.  The FS mode often makes one look as if they're standing right over the table but oddly the flippers still angled more than would be the case if looking straight down. View settings need to be able to accommodate standing back and above from a table and it has been very important to use FOV up until now to achieve that.  The more recent addition of Z offset has helped in conjunction with still the need in altering all other parameters for as an ideal view as possible.

 

In this view below you'll see a natural down view of the flippers with a fairly over-head more than from the back perspective (a nice compromise between the two extremes I think) and allows for gradual increase in angle of objects up towards the top of the table to help with the impression of looking into it.  Although this is part of what the HV approach is about (and gets some of it's roots for sure from desktop mode), it would not have been achievable at all without the ability to alter the FOV settings.

 

FP HV Capture.png

 

 

I like this... (I exceeded my "like" quota for the day but this needed to be 'LIKED' so I posted a message instead )

[freneticamnesic]

Because of a round ball: How does TPA or ProPinball solve that problem? The balls are absolutely round there...

 

A lot of development funding

For those who are asking for a more similar base table to VP9, I've removed everything not necessary to a blank slate. I adjust the inclination to match VP9 a little better

 

 

Download here