1622 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I did have one issue prior to installing PBX. On a fresh A21 install (and this may have happened on earlier Alpha's) FX3 would not launch individual tables using the default setup. It went to the main menu.

 

Pinball FX3

Program EXE: [STEAM]
Parameters: applaunch 442120 "-table_[TABLEFILE]"
Process name: Pinball FX3.exe
Table folder: steamapps\common\Pinball FX3\data\steam
Table extension: .pxp

 

After the PBX install I switched the Table folder over to C:\PinballX\Databases\Pinball FX3 (my system). The tables now launch correctly. They are pulling from PBX's XML file.

 

Hmm, I think the issue is the [TABLEFILE], which is coming from this part of the table database XML file:

 

<game name="TABLE FILE NAME">

 

If you compare your PinballX and PinballY versions of the XML files, and check what's different about those particular entries, that should explain it.  If PBY is setting up the XML entries wrong, we should figure out what's going on so I can fix it.

 

You should leave the Table folder setting as steamapps\common\Pinball FX3\data\steam, because that's where PinballY looks for the .pxp files to populate your wheel list.  Changing that will prevent PBY from finding unconfigured .pxp files, so you'll only see FX3 files that are explicitly entered in your XML list.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

 

A21 64 bit

Tried setting up a VPX game and I put in a matched title, the blanks fill in and when I hit OK,  PBY immediately shuts down. No errors shown. It just shuts down.

 

It must be a crash bug.

 

If you could isolate a reproducible test case for me, I'll fix it.  What I need is the conditions that trigger it so that I can trigger it myself.  You said you already tried creating the missing folder to no effect, so that's not it.  Maybe it's because there are no XML files in the folder?  Try creating a minimal Visual Pinball X\Visual Pinball X.xml file with just the minimum entries:

 

<menu>
</menu>

 

The way to find minimum test cases is to try changing one thing at a time until you find out the one thing that makes the problem occur or not occur.  Just the classic controlled experiment technique.  Change one thing, test; if there's no change, change one other thing, test; repeat until it changes.  There's obviously some specific difference between your Visual Pinball X setup and every other system setup that's causing the crash, since you say it's only happening with VPX, so just have to figure out what that one crucial difference is.

[hlr53]

 

 

 

A21 64 bit

Tried setting up a VPX game and I put in a matched title, the blanks fill in and when I hit OK,  PBY immediately shuts down. No errors shown. It just shuts down.

 

It must be a crash bug.

 

If you could isolate a reproducible test case for me, I'll fix it.  What I need is the conditions that trigger it so that I can trigger it myself.  You said you already tried creating the missing folder to no effect, so that's not it.  Maybe it's because there are no XML files in the folder?  Try creating a minimal Visual Pinball X\Visual Pinball X.xml file with just the minimum entries:

 

<menu>
</menu>

 

The way to find minimum test cases is to try changing one thing at a time until you find out the one thing that makes the problem occur or not occur.  Just the classic controlled experiment technique.  Change one thing, test; if there's no change, change one other thing, test; repeat until it changes.  There's obviously some specific difference between your Visual Pinball X setup and every other system setup that's causing the crash, since you say it's only happening with VPX, so just have to figure out what that one crucial difference is.

 

 

Tried that and it still closes to the desktop.

 

Maybe something got hosed up when I pointed media/databases to PBX first and then switched back over to PBY? 

 

After I switched back over to PBY I setup 2 Future Pinball tables. PBY built the XML file and put it in the C:\PinballY\Databases\Future Pinball folder

 

<menu>
 <game name="Nightmare on Elm Street ULTIMATE 1.06">
  <description>Freddy A Nightmare on Elm Street (Premier 1994)</description>
  <type>SS</type>
  <rom></rom>
  <manufacturer>Premier</manufacturer>
  <year>1994</year>
  <rating>0</rating>
 </game>
 <game name="Robocop ULTIMATE 1.05">
  <description>Robocop (Data East 1989)</description>
  <type>SS</type>
  <rom></rom>
  <manufacturer>Data East</manufacturer>
  <year>1989</year>
  <rating>0</rating>
 </game>
 <game name="Phantom Of The Opera ULTIMATE 1.04">
  <description>Phantom of the Opera (Data East 1990)</description>
  <type>SS</type>
  <rom></rom>
  <manufacturer>Data East</manufacturer>
  <year>1990</year>
  <rating>0</rating>
 </game>
</menu>
 

It didn't build an XML file for Visual Pinball.

 

I'm going to do a full reinstall (takes a few minutes - no biggie) and NOT setup pointing to PBX. I will try to setup a Visual Pinball table first. If that works, I will repoint the folders to PBX and go from there.....

[mjr]

I'm going to do a full reinstall (takes a few minutes - no biggie) and NOT setup pointing to PBX. I will try to setup a Visual Pinball table first. If that works, I will repoint the folders to PBX and go from there.....

 

It might be better not to if you haven't already - I know you want to get it working, but I selfishly would prefer to keep it broken until you can figure out what that essential element is.  I can't fix that bug until I know what causes it, so it's going to stay in there if we can't isolate the test case.

[hlr53]

 

I'm going to do a full reinstall (takes a few minutes - no biggie) and NOT setup pointing to PBX. I will try to setup a Visual Pinball table first. If that works, I will repoint the folders to PBX and go from there.....

 

It might be better not to if you haven't already - I know you want to get it working, but I selfishly would prefer to keep it broken until you can figure out what that essential element is.  I can't fix that bug until I know what causes it, so it's going to stay in there if we can't isolate the test case.

 

 

Well, I did a fresh install (you make it too easy). I said do not share files with PinballX. It's still broken with Visual Pinball.  No XML created and nothing written to the CSV. Future Pinball created an XML and wrote to the CSV when I tried 2 tables again.

 

I'll see if you can reproduce.

Edited by hlr53, 21 September 2018 - 10:01 PM.

[mjr]

 

 

I'm going to do a full reinstall (takes a few minutes - no biggie) and NOT setup pointing to PBX. I will try to setup a Visual Pinball table first. If that works, I will repoint the folders to PBX and go from there.....

 

It might be better not to if you haven't already - I know you want to get it working, but I selfishly would prefer to keep it broken until you can figure out what that essential element is.  I can't fix that bug until I know what causes it, so it's going to stay in there if we can't isolate the test case.

 

 

Well, I did a fresh install (you make it too easy). I said do not share files with PinballX. It's still broken with Visual Pinball.  No XML created and nothing written to the CSV. Future Pinball created an XML and wrote to the CSV when I tried 2 tables again.

 

I'll see if you can reproduce.

 

Is it all Visual Pinball varieties, or just VP X?

I can try going through your steps - could you give me a detailed script of the exact steps your doing?  Basically pretend you're writing a key macro script so that I can be sure to do exactly what you're doing.

[hlr53]

Eating dinner and heading out tonight... Available tomorrow

 

I don't have any pre VPX tables. Never played 9.xx.

 

Did fresh install.

Picked a VPX table on the wheel menu and pressed 1

Game Setup

Edit game details...

Clicked on title: drop down and picked a title. PBY filled in the blanks

Pressed OK

PBY closed down

 

Same procedure for Future Pinball but it placed them in an XML

[mjr]

Eating dinner and heading out tonight... Available tomorrow

 

I don't have any pre VPX tables. Never played 9.xx.

 

Did fresh install.

Picked a VPX table on the wheel menu and pressed 1

Game Setup

Edit game details...

Clicked on title: drop down and picked a title. PBY filled in the blanks

Pressed OK

PBY closed down

 

Same procedure for Future Pinball but it placed them in an XML

 

Well, "good" that it's still crashing for you, at least to the extent that there's hope of finding the problem as long as you can keep reproducing it.  Bugs that mysteriously disappear without a solid explanation always come back later, so we don't want it to just go away; we want to understand it and kill it.

 

So I tried that procedure, and there's no crash or other problem when I do it.  It just creates the new game entry like it should.  If I delete my .xml file for the system, it creates a new one the way it's supposed to. 

 

Which is what I expected, given that it's working for you with FP.  That data point is important because it really narrows the scope of what the problem could be.  It means the new game setup isn't just broken across the board, and also that it's not even broken on your machine across the board.  It's only broken specifically for VP and specifically on your machine.  So we have to figure out what it is that's special about VP + your machine.  That's the locus to look at.  If you can take a fine-toothed comb to your settings and see if you can spot anything, that would be a start - pay special attention to what's different between FP and VP, since it has to be something in that difference.

 

If you want to send me the files for me to the look at, please don't post them here - it's too hard to look at and bogs down the thread.  Instead, it would be better if you could open an issue on the PinballY project page on GitHub and upload them as attachments.  Settings.txt and a PinballY.log would probably be the right starting points.

Edited by mjr, 22 September 2018 - 01:23 AM.

[jthompson]

I've tested the program a few times. Here are a few issues I've run into.

 

1. Everything was set up looking good in the frontend. I started a VPX table and played. When I closed the table and returned to PBY, the backglass didn't retain it's full screen setting. I tried a bunch of different things including making sure VPX and Backglass server were not running in admin mode. I finally got the backglass to "stick" by editing the settings.txt file to the proper coodinates for the backglass. Once I did that, the backglass fullscreen settings stuck and I can open and close a table now and the backglass stays full screen. So I guess this setting is not "sticking" for me when I set it from the frontend.

2. Not exacty PBY related but I tried your latest DOF from 9-4-18 and while most of my stuff works, my addressable LEDs do not. I only have a Teensy, a Sainsmart, an LEDWiz and a KL25Z in my cab so I can't test if solenoids or anything like that work. My LEDwiz does though as my buttons lit up and my Sainsmart works since I get strobes and beacon, just no Teensy controller stuff. Oh yeah, the ZBLaunch also works so I guess the Pinscape is recognizing DOF commands as well.

I wanted to add - reverting to the old DOF setup, I get my addressable LEDs back. I also tried restarting my computer with the new DOF files registered but no/go on that as well.

[mjr]

 I started a VPX table and played. When I closed the table and returned to PBY, the backglass didn't retain it's full screen setting. 

 

Are you able to reproduce that, or was it a one-time thing?  If you can get it back in that state, let's try to figure out why.  Let me know.

 

Re the DOF issues, please post that to the DOF R3++ thread - specifically, if you could ask if anyone else is running into that, it would be good to see if this is a general issue or something about your machine.

[hlr53]

 

Eating dinner and heading out tonight... Available tomorrow

 

I don't have any pre VPX tables. Never played 9.xx.

 

Did fresh install.

Picked a VPX table on the wheel menu and pressed 1

Game Setup

Edit game details...

Clicked on title: drop down and picked a title. PBY filled in the blanks

Pressed OK

PBY closed down

 

Same procedure for Future Pinball but it placed them in an XML

 

Well, "good" that it's still crashing for you, at least to the extent that there's hope of finding the problem as long as you can keep reproducing it.  Bugs that mysteriously disappear without a solid explanation always come back later, so we don't want it to just go away; we want to understand it and kill it.

 

So I tried that procedure, and there's no crash or other problem when I do it.  It just creates the new game entry like it should.  If I delete my .xml file for the system, it creates a new one the way it's supposed to. 

 

Which is what I expected, given that it's working for you with FP.  That data point is important because it really narrows the scope of what the problem could be.  It means the new game setup isn't just broken across the board, and also that it's not even broken on your machine across the board.  It's only broken specifically for VP and specifically on your machine.  So we have to figure out what it is that's special about VP + your machine.  That's the locus to look at.  If you can take a fine-toothed comb to your settings and see if you can spot anything, that would be a start - pay special attention to what's different between FP and VP, since it has to be something in that difference.

 

If you want to send me the files for me to the look at, please don't post them here - it's too hard to look at and bogs down the thread.  Instead, it would be better if you could open an issue on the PinballY project page on GitHub and upload them as attachments.  Settings.txt and a PinballY.log would probably be the right starting points.

 

 

I put the A21 64 bit on my Alienware system and there are zero issues. I have no idea what changed on the pincab? i haven't changed any settings or added any new software except PBY alpha builds and PBX.  I nuked PBX and that didn't help.  I will continue to look at but it's going apart today to add some relays and a Sainsmart.

[jthompson]

Are you able to reproduce that, or was it a one-time thing?  If you can get it back in that state, let's try to figure out why.  Let me know.

I have the original settings.txt file backed up and just restored it. It does the same thing now. Full screen backglass when I open PinballY. Load a table and then exit the table, PinballY's backglass is no longer fullscreen. I can at that point exit PinballY and when I reopen it, the backglass is fullscreen, but again if I open and close a table, the backglass is no longer full screen.
 
Let me know if there is a log or something that you need. Below is my original settings.txt. The backglass position should be 1920,0,3200,1024. Hmmm, now that I look at it, my playfield position is wrong too but it goes fullscreen so I guess it doesn't matter?

FirstRunTime = 20180804195252
PlayfieldWindow.Position = 486,60,1926,825
PlayfieldWindow.Maximized = 0
PlayfieldWindow.Minimized = 0
BackglassWindow.Position = 2021,-21,2981,727
BackglassWindow.Maximized = 1,
BackglassWindow.Minimized = 0
DMDWindow.Position = 3218,153,4174,711
DMDWindow.Maximized = 0
DMDWindow.Minimized = 0
TopperWindow.Position = 391,174,1831,934
TopperWindow.Maximized = 0
TopperWindow.Minimized = 0
InstCardWindow.Position = 306,162,1746,922
InstCardWindow.Maximized = 0
InstCardWindow.Minimized = 0
GameList.CurrentGame = Tales of the Arabian Nights.Visual Pinball X
GameList.CurrentFilter = All
GameList.EmptyCategories = 
UpdateTime = Sat 22 Sep 2018 10:27:35
TopperWindow.Visible = 0
PlayfieldWindow.Rotation = 90
PlayfieldWindow.FullScreen = 1
BackglassWindow.FullScreen = 1
InstCardWindow.Rotation = 90
Video.Enable = 1
Video.Mute = 0
Buttons.Mute = 0
RememberJSButtonSource = 0
Buttons.Select = joystick * 2
Buttons.Exit = joystick * 1
Buttons.ExitGame = joystick * 4
Buttons.Next = joystick * 9
Buttons.Prev = joystick * 3
Buttons.NextPage = joystick * 7
Buttons.PrevPage = joystick * 6
Buttons.Launch = keyboard BACK
Buttons.Information = keyboard 2
Buttons.Instructions = none
Buttons.Coin1 = keyboard 3
Buttons.Coin2 = keyboard 4
Buttons.Coin3 = keyboard 5
Buttons.Coin4 = keyboard 6
Buttons.CoinDoor = keyboard END
Buttons.Service1 = keyboard 7
Buttons.Service2 = keyboard 8
Buttons.Service3 = keyboard 9
Buttons.Service4 = keyboard 0
Buttons.FrameCounter = keyboard F11
Buttons.FullScreen = keyboard F12
Buttons.Settings = keyboard O
Buttons.RotateMonitor = keyboard MULTIPLY
Capture.StartupDelay = 10
Capture.PlayfieldVideoTime = 30
Capture.BackglassVideoTime = 30
Capture.DMDVideoTime = 30
Capture.TopperVideoTime = 30
Capture.TwoPassEncoding = 1
AttractMode.Enabled = 1
AttractMode.IdleTime = 60
AttractMode.SwitchTime = 10
AttractMode.StatusLine.UpdateTime = 1000
AttractMode.StatusLine.Messages = 
AttractMode.Mute = 1
Coin1.Value = 0.250000
Coin2.Value = 0.250000
Coin3.Value = 0.250000
Coin4.Value = 1.000000
MaxCreditBalance = 10
PricingModel = 
RealDMD = Off
RealDMD.MirrorHorz = 0
RealDMD.MirrorVert = 0
InstructionCardLocation = Backglass
GameTimeout = 300
HideTaskbarDuringGame = 1
GameList.HideUnconfigured = 1
ExitMenu.ExitKeyMode = Cancel
ExitMenu.Enabled = 1
ExitMenu.ShowOperatorMenu = 0
MediaPath = C:\PinballX\Media
TableDatabasePath = C:\PinballY\Databases
AutoLaunch = off
RunAtStartup = 
RunAtExit = 
WaitForMonitors = 
UpperStatus.Messages = 
UpperStatus.UpdateTime = 2513
LowerStatus.Messages = 
LowerStatus.UpdateTime = 2233
InstCardWindow.Visible = 0
System1 = Visual Pinball X
System1.Enabled = 1
System1.MediaDir = Visual Pinball
System1.DatabaseDir = Visual Pinball
System1.Class = VPX
System1.Exe = 
System1.Parameters = /play -"[TABLEPATH]\[TABLEFILE]"
System1.Process = 
System1.StartupKeys = 
System1.TablePath = C:\Visual Pinball\Tables
System1.NVRAMPath = C:\Visual Pinball\VPinMAME\nvram
System1.DefExt = .vpx
System1.DOFTitlePrefix = 
System1.RunBefore = 
System1.RunAfter = 
CreditBalance = 0.000000
BackglassWindow.Visible = 1
OptionsDialog.Position = 2196,198,2924,824
EditGameInfoDialog.Position = 2251,304,2869,719
Log.MediaFiles = 1
Log.SystemSetup = 1
Log.MediaCapture = 1
Log.TableLaunch = 1
Log.RealDMD = 1
System1.RunBeforePre = 
System1.RunAfterPost = 
BackglassWindow.Borderless = 0
BackglassWindow.MirrorVert = 0
BackglassWindow.MirrorHorz = 0

Edited by jthompson, 22 September 2018 - 05:40 PM.

[mjr]

jthompson - okay, now that you've got it back in the state where it's not full-screen after running a game, here's the test to do:

 

1.  Run PBY

 

2.  Launch a VP game

 

3.  Alt-tab back to VPY

 

4.  What does the backglass window look like now?

 

5.  Does the monitor layout change when VP is running?  (E.g., B2S switches it to a different resolution mode, maybe?)

 

 

> Hmmm, now that I look at it, my playfield position is wrong too but it goes fullscreen so I guess it doesn't matter?

 

Right - the stored size is not the full-screen size.  It's the pre full-screen size.  The full screen size is figured on the fly from your actual monitor layout, so it's not stored.  (On Windows, it's not good practice to store a maximized or full-screen size in general because monitor layouts can change between sessions.)

Edited by mjr, 22 September 2018 - 05:49 PM.

[jthompson]

jthompson - okay, now that you've got it back in the state where it's not full-screen after running a game, here's the test to do:

 

1.  Run PBY

 

2.  Launch a VP game

 

3.  Alt-tab back to VPY

 

4.  What does the backglass window look like now?

 

5.  Does the monitor layout change when VP is running?  (E.g., B2S switches it to a different resolution mode, maybe?)

 

 

> Hmmm, now that I look at it, my playfield position is wrong too but it goes fullscreen so I guess it doesn't matter?

 

Right - the stored size is not the full-screen size.  It's the pre full-screen size.  The full screen size is figured on the fly from your actual monitor layout, so it's not stored.  (On Windows, it's not good practice to store a maximized or full-screen size in general because monitor layouts can change between sessions.)

Well if I alt tab back to PBY, the playfield is dark with the Running Tales of the Arabian Nights logo (that is the table I opened) and my backglass appears to be fullscreen but if I right click on it, I get the B2S backglass server settings dialog window. I'm not actually seeing PBY's backglass screen.

[jthompson]

FWIW, I run my Visual Pinball in windowed fullscreen. My system doesn't like exlusive fullscreen for some reson.

[hlr53]

Maybe you can decipher what my Windows 10 (Pro) pincab sys is doing? To the best of my knowledge I have not changed anything in Windows before/since running A21. I haven't changed any security settings and UAC is off and has been for 2 years.

 

Pinball Y.exe is still shutting down when I try to configure a VPX table and only VPX tables. You could not reproduce. I brought over the PBY folder from my Alienware (Win 10 Home) system where it did work and same result. I ran PinballY Admin Mode.exe with the same result. I then reran PinballY.exe as administrator and the tables all configure now? It only configures VPX tables running in Adm mode so I set it in the Compatibility box. Now, when I try to rerun PinballY Admin Mode.exe I get this error, which I don't really care, but why the switcharoo?

 

 

Another interesting thing in table setup was PBY only shut down when I had Visual Pinball X showing in System: If I blanked that out PBY would not crash. It would populate the fields and add to the CSV file but only as unconfigured.

Edited by hlr53, 23 September 2018 - 09:37 PM.

[mjr]

Why the switcheroo: because you set Admin Mode on PinballY.exe. That’s what “requires elevation” means in Windows internal jargon (as used in system error messages like this one). PinballY Admin Mode.exe launches PinballY.exe in normal user mode. You made that impossible when you set PinballY.exe to Admin Mode Only. Don’t do that. Remove the Admin Mode Only and it’ll run again.

But at least we know what’s special about your VP setup on the cab. You must have some folder or file involved set to protected.

[hlr53]

MJR, do you still have an A20 build available and if so can you provide a quick link? I would like to do some further testing. 

[mjr]

MJR, do you still have an A20 build available and if so can you provide a quick link? I would like to do some further testing. 

 

It's available under "older releases" (you didn't miss that before - I just added it).

 

Did you ever get the VS build worked out on your machine?  If so, that would be the easy way to track down the "admin mode seems to be needed for some reason" crash - you'd just have to run it under the debugger, do the crashy operation, and tell me where the debugger reports whatever exception is killing the process.  (The debugger will just stop at a line of code for you.  Zero guesswork.)  If not I'll have to create an instrumented version for you to see where the error is occurring - I don't see a clear candidate looking at the code.

Well if I alt tab back to PBY, the playfield is dark with the Running Tales of the Arabian Nights logo (that is the table I opened) and my backglass appears to be fullscreen but if I right click on it, I get the B2S backglass server settings dialog window. I'm not actually seeing PBY's backglass screen.

 

Strange... I'm not sure where the window could be disappearing to.  You don't see a resized version of the window lurking in a corner somewhere?  Maybe a 1/4 size version or something odd like that?  It would be entirely black content while a game is running - all videos/graphics are shut down to minimize performance impact.  If you can't find it anywhere, what happens if you right-click on the playfield window during this condition and select "Show Backglass"?

[hlr53]

 

MJR, do you still have an A20 build available and if so can you provide a quick link? I would like to do some further testing. 

 

It's available under "older releases" (you didn't miss that before - I just added it).

 

Did you ever get the VS build worked out on your machine?  If so, that would be the easy way to track down the "admin mode seems to be needed for some reason" crash - you'd just have to run it under the debugger, do the crashy operation, and tell me where the debugger reports whatever exception is killing the process.  (The debugger will just stop at a line of code for you.  Zero guesswork.)  If not I'll have to create an instrumented version for you to see where the error is occurring - I don't see a clear candidate looking at the code.

 

Thanks! I normally keep older versions. My bad. No, I still have to do VP table setup running as admin. I can run PBY normally other than that. Driving me nuts. Spent an hour yesterday checking folder and file permissions and nothing jumps out at me. Runs fine on my other system. Only difference is 10 Pro on cab vs 10 Home on laptop. The irony here is it doesn't work on the PBY Adm version but does on the regular PBY running as admin.

 

Also did a fresh VPX install which is ridiculously easy nowadays. You can set if you have a DMDv3, it installs B2S server and then put your monitor resolutions into a B2S dialog box for both monitors. I wish they would remove trying to add earlier versions of DirectX. PBX tries that too. I would say 99% of us have newer DirectX running.

 

First going to see if repeatable with A20. Do you want me to compile A21 with debugging enabled and run it?

Edited by hlr53, 25 September 2018 - 11:17 AM.

[mjr]

Spent an hour yesterday checking folder and file permissions and nothing jumps out at me. 

 

That fits what I'm seeing; I spent a while going over the relevant code, and I can't see anything where Admin mode should make a difference either.  I'm now thinking that what you're seeing is a run-of-the-mill crash and that running in Admin mode is just accidentally masking it.  Admin mode can do that with certain types of crashes.

 

 

Do you want me to compile A21 with debugging enabled and run it?

 

That would be perfect - that would definitely the easiest way to get to the bottom of it.  I can add instrumentation instead but that will probably take many iterations, whereas if you can run it under the debugger, it will instantly pinpoint the crash location.

 

 

The irony here is it doesn't work on the PBY Adm version but does on the regular PBY running as admin.

 

Right, that's because they're completely different things, despite the name.  "PinballY Admin Mode" doesn't mean "PinballY running in Admin Mode".  It means "PinballY running in normal user mode, with the ability to launch Admin Mode child processes when needed".