975 replies to this topic

[mjr]

If you have multiple controllers, VP should use whichever controller is marked default in control panel.   If you need to use multiple together, have to use vJoy.   I did this for a short period with my mot-ion plunger and the KL25Z's nudging.    

 

Could you expand on that?  It would be really useful to have the details on how to fix the multiple joystick problem - I've talked to a couple of other people who were having this sort of problem and I've never been able to find a good solution other than unplugging everything else.

 

Which control panel are you referring to for setting the default joystick?  I don't see anything about defaults in the Windows "Set up USB game controllers" panel, and I didn't even know the APIs had the concept of a default!  Are you talking about a DirectX control panel, maybe?

 

And pointers on how to use vJoy to combine joysticks would also be useful.  I installed it on my system a long time ago for some testing, but it mostly just crashes when I try to configure it...

Edited by mjr, 07 November 2017 - 10:32 PM.

[DJRobX]

In the Game Controllers dialog there's an Advanced ... button.  Click that and you can pick a preferred device.   This is what VP will use.   I checked and this option is present on both Windows 7 and windows 10.     I've only actually tested that VP will use the preferred device on Windows 10.  

 

vJoy itself worked pretty well for me.  The bigger nuisance was the programs used to feed it.    "UJR" is a AHK-based utility that has a nice UI that made it super simple to select the axes and buttons I wanted to map and it seemed to work great. 

http://vjoystick.sou...pper-using-vjoy

 

The big problem was that this utility does not support the concept of starting up minimized.  You can't even use start /min.   (Really!?!)   Some have asked for that feature and were directed to a "newer better" version of the tool called UCR (universal control remapper).    I tried that tool and what was easy in UJR was now going to be an extremely painful ordeal to configure.   I was so fed up I was close to just recoding VPX's user interface to support multiple controllers.    But I opted to just hack the UI dialog out of UJR.    It seemed to work well.     Then maybe 2 days later, my mot-ion board died, so no choice but to go all-in with Pinscape.

I also kind of worry about the latency added by this kind of hacky setup.   I didn't notice anything significant, but I didn't get to use it long enough to see if there was noticeable impact.  

Edited by DJRobX, 07 November 2017 - 11:20 PM.

[mjr]

In the Game Controllers dialog there's an Advanced ... button.  Click that and you can pick a preferred device.   This is what VP will use.   I checked and this option is present on both Windows 7 and windows 10.     I've only actually tested that VP will use the preferred device on Windows 10.  

 

Ah, yes, I see it now.   This is good to know about - I'm going to add information to the build guide about it.  I want to double-check in the VP code that it really works this way, though.  It's possible that the results you saw were just coincidental based on the order of USB discovery on your machine.  The reason I'm uncertain is that my read of the VP code was that it actually scans all of the joysticks, so I'm not sure it actually pays any attention to the "default" setting.  Like I said, I didn't even know there *was* a "default" joystick at any Windows API level, and I have no idea where in the API that setting comes through, but based on the verbiage in the control panel ("Select the device you want to use with older programs"), I suspect might not be for DirectInput, which is what VP uses.  DirectInput itself is already an obsolete API, so it might in fact be the "older" API they're talking about, but I suspect it's something even older.  This bears some investigation.

Edited by mjr, 08 November 2017 - 12:07 AM.

[DJRobX]

It definitely works correctly in Win10.   In the process of setting up Vjoy I moved it around many times, and VP picked it up as expected every time.    I'd often go back to setting my mot-ion as preferred when I was done with my vJoy pinscape+mot-ion experiments.  And one time I switched it "direct" to pinscape to see if the nudging felt any different through vJoy or direct.  It didn't seem to. 

Edited by DJRobX, 08 November 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[mjr]

It definitely works correctly in Win10.   In the process of setting up Vjoy I moved it around many times, and VP picked it up as expected every time.    I'd often go back to setting my mot-ion as preferred when I was done with my vJoy pinscape+mot-ion experiments.  And one time I switched it "direct" to pinscape to see if the nudging felt any different through vJoy or direct.  It didn't seem to. 

 

I'm sure you're right - sorry to belabor it, I just want to make sure I really understand what's going on inside the black box so there are no gotchas.

[mrjoin3r]

Hi, this is my first post on this and any forum so I apologise in advance if I have not posted correctly. I have recently built my own desktop arcade cabinet which I was very pleased with. I then came across virtual pinball machines and thought this would be a great next project to do. I'm a joiner by trade so the cabinet building side of things are not a problem and I have built many pc's and home networked my house without much of a problem either. After researching on the internet and seeing many posts on forums I decided to purchase a frdm KL25Z board and follow many of the excellent tutorials that I have come across on this forum. I like the idea of the pinscape expansion boards and would really like to go down this route but I have no experience what so ever in electronics or soldering. Do you think a novice like me can complete this project or am I been a bit too optimistic. Also one more quick question, I have configured the KL25Z with the pinscape config tool on my laptop and then connected it to my pinball computer which I will be using for my build but when I launch the pinscape config tool again it tells me it cant reach this page. Thanks Kevin

[mjr]

Hi, this is my first post on this and any forum so I apologise in advance if I have not posted correctly. 

 

Welcome!  Nothing to worry about - your post is completely on-topic here.

 

 

I like the idea of the pinscape expansion boards and would really like to go down this route but I have no experience what so ever in electronics or soldering. Do you think a novice like me can complete this project or am I been a bit too optimistic. 

 

I've heard from a few people who estimated their electronics experience level as similarly "novice" and were able to build them, so I think there's hope.  There are a lot of parts to install on the boards, but as far as technique and skill level go, there's nothing too tricky involved, just a lot of basic soldering.  The difficultly level is probably a little bit higher than a real beginner project, just because the part density is rather high, but other than that it's fairly straightforward.

 

One obstacle if you don't routinely do hobby electronics work might be simply that you'd have to buy a few tools, particularly a good soldering iron.  That can increase the effective cost of the project, so take that into account if you're thinking in terms of a budget build - you might actually come out ahead by buying some of the pre-built commercial devices.

 

 

Also one more quick question, I have configured the KL25Z with the pinscape config tool on my laptop and then connected it to my pinball computer which I will be using for my build but when I launch the pinscape config tool again it tells me it cant reach this page.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure what's going wrong - it might help if you could post a screen shot of the error.  When you set up the pinball PC, did you install a fresh copy of the config tool there, or did you copy files from the laptop?  If it's the latter, maybe some of the files just didn't get copied over.  Hopefully a fresh install of the config tool on the pinball PC will clear it up.

[mrjoin3r]

Thanks for the quick reply mjr really appreciate the help. I think I'm going to have a go at building the boards myself, where would I be able to get hold of them?.

 

I've managed to get the config tool working again, just downloaded the zip file again.

[mjr]

I've managed to get the config tool working again, just downloaded the zip file again.

 

That's good!  Glad that cleared it up.

 

 

 I think I'm going to have a go at building the boards myself, where would I be able to get hold of them?.

 

It looks like you're in the UK, and I'm afraid I'm only sending the ones from my group orders within the US (apologies for that, but the post office here makes it a bit too much work to ship internationally).  You could look for someone else on this forum or on one of the other pinball forums to see if anyone closer to you has extras on hand from a group order, or you could order directly from the same vendor I do (elecrow.com).  You can order in lots as small as 5 copies from them, so it's not too expensive to order a set (plus you might then have a few extras on hand to help out the next time someone from the UK is looking!).

[Onevox]

Well, I lost DOF button lights somehow. Should the Pinscape DOF (51)  config generator create a cabinet.xml and DirectOutputTesterSettings.xml files? 

[mjr]

Well, I lost DOF button lights somehow. Should the Pinscape DOF (51)  config generator create a cabinet.xml and DirectOutputTesterSettings.xml files? 

 

No need for those with Pinscape.  Cabinet.xml is only needed for devices that DOF can't discover on its own, like SainSmart boards or the addressable LED strips.  I'm not sure what the tester settings file is for, but based on the name I suspect it's only for testing.

 

The first thing to check is that DOF is loading when you run a game.  Run a game, move your mouse over to the B2S screen, and right-click.  This should bring up the B2S status dialog.  There should be a section at the bottom for "plugins".  DOF loads as B2S plugin, so it should be listed.  If not, the problem is with DOF DLL loading.  The most common causes of that are (1) Windows setting the "blocked" flag on the files because they came from an internet download, and (2) path problems, like one of the DOF DLL files is in the wrong folder (did you move any files around lately?  reinstall anything?  install something new?  rename folders?  delete files?) or one of the B2S shortcut-to-DOF files is pointing to the wrong folder.

 

If the B2S status screen lists DOF as loaded, open that item to check its status.  If there were any errors loading or launching DOF, they should be listed in the box at the top.  Those error messages tend to be pretty opaque (they're usually exception reports from the C# COM loader, which are pretty much useless piles of internal Windows error numbers), so if you find a message and can't make any sense of it, post a screen shot and hopefully someone can decode it.

[mrjoin3r]

Ok thanks for the info mjr. is it the 2 layer pcb option I need to choose and what thickness do they need to be, also it asks for the copper weight and pcb size, sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I make the right choices if I can't find anybody who has any to sell and I have to order myself. 

[mjr]

Ok thanks for the info mjr. is it the 2 layer pcb option I need to choose and what thickness do they need to be, also it asks for the copper weight and pcb size, sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I make the right choices if I can't find anybody who has any to sell and I have to order myself. 

 

For elecrow, you can use the defaults for all specs except size:
 

2-layer PCB
1.6mm thickness

1oz (35um) copper

PCB Size - 10x10 cm (note this isn't the default)

PCB color - your choice on this (it's purely cosmetic, no functional difference)

Surface finish - Hasl

No stencil (that's for surface mount (SMD) parts, which these boards don't use)

Lead time - your choice

Panelizing - single PCB with milling 

[Onevox]

No DOF button lights. Sigh.

What I've know:

B2S Plugins is checked and button shows window with DOF "active" showing.

 

What I've done:

c:DirectOutput

[mjr]

No DOF button lights. Sigh.

What I've know:

B2S Plugins is checked and button shows window with DOF "active" showing.

 

What I've done:

c:DirectOutput

 

Hmm...  Have you verified that the button lights are working at the hardware level?  The thing I'd do is run the Pinscape config tool and bring up the Output Tester window, and try turning them on through that to make sure the lights are physically working and that they're responding to commands from the PC.  If that's not working, it narrows it down to either a wiring problem or a problem with the Pinscape firmware or its configuration.

 

If they light up on command from the output tester window, that rules out wiring problems and problems on the KL25Z side, so whatever's wrong is on the PC side.  It also rules out USB connection problems, since the commands are making it across the USB wire.

 

You've already confirmed that DOF is loading successfully, so I think if you rule out hardware issues and Pinscape config issues, the only thing left between those two poles is the DOF configuration.  I'd double-check your setup in the online DOF config tool - make sure the Pinscape unit number matches how you have it set in the Pinscape config tool, and make sure the output port numbers for your button lights all match between the DOF and Pinscape config tools.  Also double-check the particular VP table you're running in the DOF tool and make sure it actually has settings for the corresponding lights - not all tables use all lights.  If that all checks out, look for the DOF log file and see what it says.  It's pretty hard to read because it's filled with tons of technical effluvia, but somewhere in there it should be reporting the devices it found (Pinscape should be listed) and the VPinMAME ROM file it loaded for the table (it should match the one in the DOF config tool for the table you're playing).

 

One thing that seems to be a plague on DOF users is redundant copies of DOF files in different directories - DOF .dll and .ini files.  If all else fails, search your entire hard disk for extra copies of the files.  It might be that you have perfectly good copies of the files that DOF is completely ignoring because it's loading some other copy from some other directory.

Edited by mjr, 14 November 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[Onevox]

I am really sorry about that Mike. I started to write that post (I was long from being done) and decided to work on the problem some more before asking questions. I thought I backed out before posting but apparently not. Then it was my plan to ask questions over at the DOF forums cause I don’t think it’s pinscape related. Thank you for the detailed info, though. Button lights do turn on in pinscape config tool and ledwiz tester. Ports 18-21 in DOF config tool match ports 18-21 in pinscape config and ledwiz tester. JP8-1 -3 -5 -7. I searched for DOF files and deleted all I found and reinstalled. No change. When I first noticed the problem, I was going to update my DOF config because of new tables ... and my port assignments were mysteriously set to 1-4 in the DOF config tool. So I changed them back to 18-21.

 

All DOF and B2S files checked for "run as admin" and "unblocked." 

 

All looks ok in the DOF config tool ...

 

You've devoted enough time to this. I'll keep plugging along, and post my DOF config over at another forum to see if something looks amiss. 

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2017-11-14 at 8.10.13 AM.png   28.06KB   2 downloads
•  Screen Shot 2017-11-14 at 8.08.49 AM.png   8.4KB   1 downloads

Edited by Onevox, 14 November 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[mjr]

Onevox - it sounds like the hardware is working, at least, so hopefully it's just a matter of finding what's missing/wrong in the DOF setup.  If all else fails you can wipe the disk and do a fresh install.  I always save that for a last resort since it's a huge pain, and more importantly I prefer to understand the real problem rather than just giving up.  I find that problems you chalk up to impenetrable supernatural mysteries have a way of coming back and forcing you to deal with them eventually.   If you do identify the problem, let me know what you found - maybe it'll be a new idea to add to the list of things to look at the next time someone else is stuck in DOF config hell.

[Onevox]

How it changed is a mystery, but I got it back. Note: Only main board.

 

Here's what I did...

 

In Pinscape controller:

 

1. My ledwiz number changed to 8 and my Pinscape ID was not 1 (I can't remember what it was, I think 4.)  (I skipped right over this about a dozen times not thinking it might have shifted.)

2. So I changed my ledwiz number to 1 and my Pinscape ID to 1. No lights.

3. Then changed ledwiz to "PInscape ID" and Pinscape ID left at 1. No lights.

4. Then I went to DOF Config Tool and checked Pinscape ID at 1. It was. So figured maybe I need to get my config again. So it generated a fresh config and installed in DirectOutput folder.

Voila! Woohoo!

 

I'm wondering if I had done #4 after #2 they would have worked. Not sure.

 

Thanks for all the help. Here's the upside: I'm a master of DOF installations now. 

[mjr]

How it changed is a mystery, but I got it back. Note: Only main board.

 

1. My ledwiz number changed to 8 and my Pinscape ID was not 1 (I can't remember what it was, I think 4.)  (I skipped right over this about a dozen times not thinking it might have shifted.)

2. So I changed my ledwiz number to 1 and my Pinscape ID to 1. No lights.

3. Then changed ledwiz to "PInscape ID" and Pinscape ID left at 1. No lights.

4. Then I went to DOF Config Tool and checked Pinscape ID at 1. It was. So figured maybe I need to get my config again. So it generated a fresh config and installed in DirectOutput folder.

Voila! Woohoo!

 

I'm wondering if I had done #4 after #2 they would have worked. Not sure.

 

Glad you got it figured out!  I think that step 4 is the only one you needed to do.  You might actually want to undo the other three steps now that you have it going again, since changing the IDs like that will make the device un-discoverable by legacy pre-DOF software.  You might not care if you're only using VP, but you might want to change it back anyway just so you don't have to think about it in the future if you ever do start using old LedWiz-only software like FP.

 

The defaults are: 

 

USB ID = LedWiz 8

Pinscape unit number = 1

 

 

 Here's the upside: I'm a master of DOF installations now. 

 

I bet!  Sounds like you got plenty of practice in all of that.

[grunger106]

Just an FYI (as I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, maybe I missed it)

I just picked up a KL25Z and it didn't need any firmware updates to work - just plugged it in and it had the newer firmware on out of the box, so I just ran the tool and installed Pinscape