458 replies to this topic

[Emanoel299]

Have you tried native 3D interlaced in VP 10.8-GL?]

 

Yes,I have and it is not working good

Version from GITHUB VPX 10.81 GL 64 - 1874

So, I used Reshade  GL with settings

Divergence=85.0

WZPD_and_WND=0.030000,0.030000,0.000000,0.250000

ZPD_Separation=0.080000,0.080000 - this set is adjusted only in notepad edition. It is no possible to adjust via Reshade browser. There are limits.

Looks good for most all tabes POV settings legacy view (VPX 10.7x POV)

For Original VPX 8 tables, I need to adjust video settings Cabinet Layout again.

 

Anyway, thank your tip

[Pete248]

You use 10.8.1 or was this a typo? 10.8.1 imo have 19xx numbers.

What didn't work for you? I'm currently using 1862 and have no issues.

Edited by Pete248, 26 January 2024 - 03:45 PM.

[Emanoel299]

v 10.8.1 beta (Rev. 1874 (e769998) windows OpenGL 64 bits)

 

As I told in my case any realease of VPX 10.8x DX9 or GL has different behavior with the POV from VPX 10.7x legacy or VPX 10.8x POV window mode.

 

Even for Native 3D GL or Reshade GL

 

Reshade is better to adjust 3D and looks very good, but there are some VPX 10.8x realeses that is good others not.

 

I will try your realease 1862 

[Pete248]

Imo POV window mode only exists in 10.8 GL. So if you talk about 10.7 or 10.8 DX you talk about what is now called POV legacy mode. Agree?
Only POV window mode generates a realistic perspective view. That means if you are hunting for a realistic view you have to use 10.8 GL. That is true for 2D and 3D.
For 3D you have the choice between fake stero (where a single 2D picture is shifted based on a depth map) or true stereo where individual pictures are rendered for each eye. Fake stereo you get with Reshade or with VPX own 3D if you check the Fake Stereo checkbox.
True stereo you only get with VPX own 3D if you uncheck the Fake Stereo checkbox.
Only with true stereo you get transparency in 3D. Imo true stereo looks better and need less hardware resources than Reshade.
The advantage of Reshade is you have more choices to finetune things. But imo that is more important for anaglyph than for the 3D TV modes.

I agree with you that you have to rework your POV settings if you come from 10.7 or 10.8 DX. But that is to be expected as you change the perspective when switching to POV window mode.

But it is an easy one time fix: When you open a table the first time in 10.8-GL you hit F12, change the mode from legacy to window, hit 1 or Start button to load the defaults, hit Enter or Launch Ball to save the changes and with F12 you are back at playing. How long will it take? 30 Seconds?

Yes you might improve the perspective even a bit with changing additional settings but most is personal choice that no preset can set for you automatically. Some prefer to see the full Apron others dont. Some want to see the sidewalls and/or the backboard fully others just the part of the playfield the balls can reach.

I think it is not difficult to switch to 3D and if you can accept the loss of colors in anaglyph or were lucky enough to find a 3D TV it is worth the effort. Nothing is closer to the real thing. And with headtracking (which doesnt work yet with true stereo in VPX) it is almost indistinguishable.

[digitalarts]

Wrong! The window mode pov is one of the game changer in dx also!

[wiesshund]

Imo POV window mode only exists in 10.8 GL. So if you talk about 10.7 or 10.8 DX you talk about what is now called POV legacy mode. Agree?

 

No, you would be incorrect

Window POV exists in ALL 10.8 version GL DX 10.8.1 etc.

Unsure why you think it only exists in GL?

[Pete248]

Thanks for the correction. Then it is the true stereo. I remember that when I first got notice of 10.8 I was primarily interested in the GL version because of a key feature that is only available in GL. Must have mixed this up with the window POV, sorry.
Anyway for the most realistic 3D experience which imo is true stereo and window POV you need 10.8 GL.

Edited by Pete248, 26 January 2024 - 11:11 PM.

[Emanoel299]

Thank you Pete for your good explanation.

 

You´re righit.Now it is fine.

I used VPX 10.8.1 - 1862 GL 64 version

3D stereo output - flipped interlaced

eye separation 60.0

 

No fake stereo and No Y-axis

I will need adjust again all INI files. I adjusted close to 3D VR view. Amazing

3D is very good - Clean, bright and good transparency view. Any divergence.

 

Thank you

Edited by Emanoel299, 27 January 2024 - 02:34 PM.

[Pete248]

I'm glad I was able to help.

Just one thing to help you and others to installi versions from the right branch.

1862 is from the 10.8.0 branch not from 10.8.1

As mentioned multiple times in the 10.8 thread you should only use versions from the 10.8.0 branch labeled with tag master. These will not get new features but only existing bugs will be fixed and at some point released as 10.8 final.
10.8.1 is the experimental playground for new stuff and likely has still lots of bugs. Stay away and never install it over your current system. Install a separate system probably in a VM to test 10.8.1 versions if you must.
If you are in doubts it is easy to identify them: 10.8.0 branch has 18xx numbers, 10.8.1 has 19xx numbers.

Edited by Pete248, 28 January 2024 - 10:45 PM.

[wiesshund]

Thanks for the correction. Then it is the true stereo. I remember that when I first got notice of 10.8 I was primarily interested in the GL version because of a key feature that is only available in GL. Must have mixed this up with the window POV, sorry.
Anyway for the most realistic 3D experience which imo is true stereo and window POV you need 10.8 GL.

yea DX version only has fake stereo

unsure reason

GL has true stereo

 

Which incidentally, the sweet spot for eye separation, for me, seems to be 8mm

 

More than that, if i take a yellow field and put a black vertical line in it (those colors stand out in red/cyan)

I can see the line begin to diverge at just 8.3 mm the divergence is noticeable.

And if you can notice the divergence, the overall experience is ruined, table becomes hard on the eyes, hard to maintain focus on etc. 

 

You might push the illusion of 3d on some object deeper using more separation, but to the detriment of the rest of the table

 

So if someone is adjusting this (2 color Anaglyph 3D)

just take a blank, dont need anything but flippers

 

make a wall in middle of playfield

make a texture that will be like a bright field with a Black vertical line, yellow seems to work good.

 

Now adjust the eye separation

when you begin to notice 2 black lines that you cant ignore, stop and reduce separation until you only perceive one black line.

The flippers you left on the table should look nicely 2d, and your eyeballs should not feel like they are being pulled out of your head

 

Ok now go load up your favorite table

[cryhavok707]

Just to throw my two cents in, been using the anachrome red/cyan glasses on the newest build of 10.8GL with native 3D settings and am getting some pretty great results. Found that the red lens needed another red lense in front of it to really remove ghosting. I used a red lens from a cheap pair of 3D glasses and taped it over the anachome pair. Has really increased the realism for me.

[Gravy]

Someone on Discord was just asking about whether a Philips 4K active 3D TV would work in rotated mode. I said it was unlikely if it was an LCD screen due to linear polarising issue. Active 3D plasma screens do seem to work though (at least my 60" living room plasma TV doesnt black out in 3D mode when rotating my head to 90 degrees with active glasses on, but I have never really tested it properly with VPX as its too big to lay down).
 

 

I mentioned that it can be possible to overcome the rotation issue on active LCD 3D TVS by putting a screen protector on the lens, but the results are a bit screwy as there is a rainbowing effect.

 

So then I did more testing and found something that may be of interest to those of you with an active 3D LCD screen, will cut and paste what I wrote at discord:
 

"I just did a little more testing and tried placing the lenses of a pair of RealD 3D glasses (circular polarised)  from a cinema over the top of my Panasonic active 3D glasses, then I turned my head 90 degrees in front of my regular PC screen (its not a 3D screen, but that shouldn't matter for the test), the image went from black (without the realD 3D lenses addition) to visible once I added the extra lens in front. The big news though is there did not seem to be any rainbowing effect that you normally get from the screen protector method.

I think it may also be possible to just use a linear polarising filter in front of the lenses rotated at 90 degrees compared to the glasses but its probably easier to just get an old pair of RealD 3D glasses that were available from cinemas previously and cut out the lenses (or else by a few polarising filter sheets if you want an exact match for the size). I sometimes see the RealD glasses in the sunglasses bin of thrift/op shops here in Australia but you can likely just buy them at aliexpress as well. This store also has the circular polariser (or "polarizer") sheets https://3dlens.com/c...arizer-film.php

So, my thinking is the TV you are looking at may be a possibility with some modification of the glasses. The brightness may be diminished somewhat though compared to LG cinema3D screens as not only do the active LCD glasses reduce perceived brightness when switched on, but the addition of the additional polarising lens filter will reduce it further as they are slightly tinted.

 

It's also important to consider that active 3D can exhibit a slight flickering effect if you are susceptible, passive 3D doesn't have this issue."

Edited by Gravy, 11 March 2024 - 02:35 AM.

[Junkyerd]

Since discovering this forum thread and implementing Reshade on my pincab a little over 3 months ago, its become the only way I play my cabinet.  The 3D effect just adds so much more to the overall experience.  That said, my biggest frustration has been that (ideally to me) most tables need their own SuperDepth3D settings tweaks to get them dialed in the best, and didn't know a good way to do that.  I've since been able to make some simple changes to my system to permit me to do exactly that and figured I'd share.

 

Disclaimer:  I always have Reshade set to run, so if your system isn't setup that way this might not be a good fit for you.  Also, my changes are specific to PinUp Popper, so if you're not using that frontend, you'll have to adjust according to you frontends capabilities.

 

For a while now I've been cycling between 3-4 Reshade presets -- one of them having no 3D effect at all called "noeffect.ini".  This worked fine for the most part, but I still felt it would be better if I could tweak the settings for a specific table, assuming I could ensure those setting were loaded when that specific table was launched again in the future.  I now only have two presets in my VPX folder, 3d.ini and noeffects.ini, allowing me to just turn 3D effects on/off.  With some changes to my frontend's launch and close scripts, I copy a [table specific].ini file in as 3d.ini when the table launches.  If no table specific file exists, I copy in the default.ini.  Then, in the close script I copy the 3d.ini file out as a [table specific].ini to a save folder.  This way I can make adjustments to the table and they get saved for later use.  

 

These are the steps I took:

• Create a new folder in your VPX folder called "reshade-presets".  (in my case, c:\vPinball\VisualPinball\reshade-presets).  This is where all the custom presets for each individual table will get stored. 
• Copy an existing Reshade preset into that folder and name it "default.ini".  This is required, so if you don't have a saved Reshade preset created, go create one first. 
• Since I use PinUp Popper as my frontend, I went and made the following changes to my VPX start and stop scripts (which can be found in PinUp Popper Setup app -> Popper Setup tab -> Emulators -> Visual Pinball X -> Launch Setup tab).  If you don't use Popper, hopefully whatever frontend you're using has launch and close scripts that can be modified.  The script modifications below use variables specific to Popper, so adjust accordingly. 

 

Add this to the Launch Script somewhere before the line that launches the table:

if exist "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\[GAMENAME].ini" (
  copy "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\[GAMENAME].ini" "[DIREMU]\3d.ini"
) else (
  if exist "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\default.ini" (
    copy "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\default.ini" "[DIREMU]\3d.ini"
  )
)

All this code does is copy the table specific .ini from the reshade-presets folder to 3d.ini in your VPX folder.  If no table specific .ini exists, it uses the default.ini.  So this is what my full launch script now looks like

@echo off
START "" "[STARTDIR]Launch\VPXSTARTER.exe" 30 10 60 "Visual Pinball Player" 2
cd /d "[DIREMU]"

rem Change the following to EnableTrueFullScreen to default FullScreen Exclusive!
rem SET FSMODE=DisableTrueFullScreen
SET FSMODE=EnableTrueFullScreen

SET VPXEXE=vpinballx.exe

if "[RECMODE]"=="1" (SET FSMODE=DisableTrueFullScreen )
if /I "[CUSTOM1]"=="NOFSX" (SET FSMODE=DisableTrueFullScreen )
if NOT "[ALTEXE]"=="" (SET VPXEXE=[ALTEXE] )

if exist "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\[GAMENAME].ini" (
  copy "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\[GAMENAME].ini" "[DIREMU]\3d.ini"
) else (
  if exist "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\default.ini" (
    copy "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\default.ini" "[DIREMU]\3d.ini"
  )
)

START /min "" %VPXEXE% "[DIREMU]" -%FSMODE% -minimized -play "[GAMEFULLNAME]"

if %FSMODE%==DisableTrueFullScreen (START "" "[STARTDIR]Launch\PopperKeepFocus.exe" "Visual Pinball Player" 10)

Add this to the end of the Close Script:

if exist "[DIREMU]\3d.ini" (
  if exist "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets" (
    copy "[DIREMU]\3d.ini" "[DIREMU]\reshade-presets\[GAMENAME].ini"
  )
)

This just copies the 3d.ini file to the reshade-presets folder as a table-specific.ini file.  So over time all your tables will get table specific .ini files created.  Or you can choose to copy in a preset or a different table .ini and rename it according to the table its intended for.  

 

Thats it.  Now when I launch a table I essentially have the ability to turn on / off 3D, and any changes I make on that table will get saved off to the reshade-presets folder and get used the next time its launched.

 

Here is a screenshot of my reshade-presets folder with some table specific .ini files saved.

Screenshot (17).png

 

 

Thanks a lot for this tutorial, working nice!!

 

All you have to do it's select the 3d.ini when you are playing a table in reshade options and then.. everything it`s working fine , the table launches with the correct reshade preset for the table.

 

 

I have read anaglyph native vpx editor it's better now than reshade, but it`s impossible for me to get 3d experience making adjustments to parallal or ZPD and closing/launching the table everytime you want to test some changes

Edited by Junkyerd, 04 May 2024 - 05:14 PM.

[elmera]

 

Thanks a lot for this tutorial, working nice!!

 

All you have to do it's select the 3d.ini when you are playing a table in reshade options and then.. everything it`s working fine , the table launches with the correct reshade preset for the table.

 

 

I have read anaglyph native vpx editor it's better now than reshade, but it`s impossible for me to get 3d experience making adjustments to parallal or ZPD and closing/launching the table everytime you want to test some changes

 

 

Glad this worked out for you.  I agree it was very difficult getting the native 3D working correctly since it couldn't be adjusted in real-time like Reshade.

 

I will point out though, I switched to using VR months ago -- so no longer play in pancake mode (using Reshade) since VR is so amazing.  With VR + my cab, I feel like it combines the best of both worlds.  The 3D is spot on, and all the sounds and feedback directionally come from the right places. If I have spectators that want to watch, I just run "oculusmirror.exe" on my backglass which provides a view of what the player is seeing in VR.  The only downside is if you have two or more players you have to swap the VR headset around when each player takes their turn.  Small price to pay though. 

[Gravy]

 

 

Thanks a lot for this tutorial, working nice!!

 

All you have to do it's select the 3d.ini when you are playing a table in reshade options and then.. everything it`s working fine , the table launches with the correct reshade preset for the table.

 

 

I have read anaglyph native vpx editor it's better now than reshade, but it`s impossible for me to get 3d experience making adjustments to parallal or ZPD and closing/launching the table everytime you want to test some changes

 

It is possible to adjust some of the inbuilt 3D settings on the fly in GL, Press Q in game, Select "Live editor", Select Preference/Video Options. You'll then see some 3D options available. This only allows changes to eye separation, not parallax or ZPD. It also allows you to tweak anaglyph colour settings etc.
 

I'm also pretty hooked on VR now, although would still like to get a larger 3D screen (I have a 32" 3D LG screen at present which is a bit small). I have found that the inbuilt 3D of GL is good but for it to work correctly on my screen in portrait mode I need to step to the left a little to avoid ghosting which occurs if I'm dead centre. Reshade/Depth3D is actually better in this regard as it allows more adjustments and I can stand centrally. I might mention this to Vincent and see if he can think of a way to offset it slightly to overcome the problem in inbuilt 3D with interlaced screens.

Edited by Gravy, 09 May 2024 - 01:35 PM.

[Emanoel299]

Hi guys
 
3D is for me the the way to play better and feel like a real pinball except VR.
I recommend to use VPX 10.80 GL - from version 1862 untill the last one. 32 or 64 bits
Native 3D - Anaglyph for 2D TV  basic setings RED & CYAN or

Flipped interlaced for 3D TV LG (eye seperation 60.0)

No fake stereo. Without Reshade.

Try it. In my opinion is the best VPX 3D.

Pay attention to make a good *.INI view file.

The new VPX 10.80 - xx has very perpect adjust view for all tables

There was some tables that was not possible to get a better view with old VPX DX9 pov with Reshade.

[Gravy]

Hi guys
 
3D is for me the the way to play better and feel like a real pinball except VR.
I recommend to use VPX 10.80 GL - from version 1862 untill the last one. 32 or 64 bits
Native 3D - Anaglyph for 2D TV  basic setings RED & CYAN or

Flipped interlaced for 3D TV LG (eye seperation 60.0)

No fake stereo. Without Reshade.

Try it. In my opinion is the best VPX 3D.

Pay attention to make a good *.INI view file.

The new VPX 10.80 - xx has very perpect adjust view for all tables

There was some tables that was not possible to get a better view with old VPX DX9 pov with Reshade.

Do you have an LG 3D TV? What size and model?
Assuming you run the screen in cabinet mode/orientation do you also have the problem where you need to move slightly to the left of centre to prevent ghosting with inbuilt GL 3D stereo mode?
My 2012 model 32 inch LG 1080p interlaced 3D has this issue.

[Emanoel299]

 

Hi guys
 
3D is for me the the way to play better and feel like a real pinball except VR.
I recommend to use VPX 10.80 GL - from version 1862 untill the last one. 32 or 64 bits
Native 3D - Anaglyph for 2D TV  basic setings RED & CYAN or

Flipped interlaced for 3D TV LG (eye seperation 60.0)

No fake stereo. Without Reshade.

Try it. In my opinion is the best VPX 3D.

Pay attention to make a good *.INI view file.

The new VPX 10.80 - xx has very perpect adjust view for all tables

There was some tables that was not possible to get a better view with old VPX DX9 pov with Reshade.

Do you have an LG 3D TV? What size and model?
Assuming you run the screen in cabinet mode/orientation do you also have the problem where you need to move slightly to the left of centre to prevent ghosting with inbuilt GL 3D stereo mode?
My 2012 model 32 inch LG 1080p interlaced 3D has this issue.

 

Hi Gravy

 

I have 3 3D Cabinets:

 

Do you have an LG 3D TV? What size and model?

 

3D 42" TV LG  - 42LM6200

3D 42" TV LG  - 42LM6400

3D 47" TV LG  - 47LM4600 - A little bit big but is good. I think that higher than 47 there would not be like real pinball.

 

Assuming you run the screen in cabinet mode/orientation

 

Yes, in cabinet mode.

1920

1080

 

You Know that passive 3D loses resolution. You see the scan lines on screen when wear the glasses

But is not bad. The depth is better than play in flat full resolution 2D.

 

do you also have the problem where you need to move slightly to the left of centre to prevent ghosting

 

You know that VPX inbuilt 3D is static.

And you will see a bit 3D elements moving slightly to left, center or right if you move your body, (BAM is terrible)

But it is not my case, even when I play in a real machine or VR.

I move only my Eyes together the around the ball over the screen and a bit the head.

To prevent ghosting You can try to bring the Apron close to the screen 3D TV and the back wall too. You need to adjust INI file. It´s hard to do in some tables

This reduce but not eliminate. Other way is eye separation less than 50. I use 60 because I like to feel detph.

 

 with inbuilt GL 3D stereo mode?

 

I´m playing with VPX 10.80 GL 32/64 - 1862 or from that.

I use this version to create my better table INI view file.

I can say that is close to VR.

 

32" 3D TV maybe is too small to feeling like a real cabinet. I don´t know

Futher information about my VPX GL video settings to get better perfomeance on GL:

 

Perfrmance and Troubleshotting:

Max. Ambient Occlusion - Disable AO

Max. Reflection Mode - Disable Reflection

Max. Texture Dimension - Unlimited

 

3D stereo Output:

Flipped Interlaced (e.g. LG TV´s)

NO FAKE STEREO

Eye Separation (mm) - 60.0

 

Synchronization mode - No Sync

Maximum Framerate - 0

 

Ant-iAliasing:

Disable

Disable

Quality FXAA

Disable

 

Cabinet Layout:

103.5

90.0

15.0

0.0

0.0

85.0

 

3D TV settings - Game mode - With personal settings

 

 

Edited by Emanoel299, 09 May 2024 - 08:58 PM.

[WiiMoritz]

it seems that you can't cycle with F10 key from disabled state?

you need to choose one enabled option ih graphic settings to make F10 key work?

I wish to have deafult disabled and press F10 to enable 3D mode when I wish.

[machineboy]

it seems that you can't cycle with F10 key from disabled state?

you need to choose one enabled option ih graphic settings to make F10 key work?

I wish to have deafult disabled and press F10 to enable 3D mode when I wish.

 

It's the same behaviour for me. If 3D is not enabled with a preset, you can't cycle modes.

 

I've set up an alternative VPinballX.ini file that sets my preferred anaglyph preset and enables 3D. I check for [PLAYLISTID] on launch, and if this is my 3D playlist it uses this other VPinballX.ini file which turns on 3D.

 

I made an anaglyph drawing app many years ago, so I had a few different glasses lying around. The green&cyan pair works best for me, but I wonder if the trioviz inficolor glasses are better?