734 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I just found that the ZB Ball Launch doesn't work so well for Champion Pub.  This is a table where you should hold in the launch button and then release it at a certain point to get "stuff".  I don't know how many other tables there are like this one, but the forward push on the plunger doesn't "hold" the launch button down, just fires it. Where should I post this kind of issue (if Zeb is interested in reworking it).

 

Interesting.  It might be better to treat the "push" gesture with true pushbutton equivalence, then.  I implemented it as a momentary push on the button even if you press and hold, but there's no reason it has be that way - it just seemed like the right thing because the tables I was thinking of all treat it like a trigger.  It should be no problem to change - I'll let you know when I have an update ready.

 

(As for Zeb's version, I suspect he already implements it this way, so his probably already works the right way with CP.)

[toxie]

is this best way to nudge nowdays , is the code implemented with vp9.91 ? i only like to use it for nudge ,is just programing the board and settings in vp good to have it working ?

 

It's both in 9.9.1 and 10..

[mjr]

 

is this best way to nudge nowdays , is the code implemented with vp9.91 ? i only like to use it for nudge ,is just programing the board and settings in vp good to have it working ?

 

It's both in 9.9.1 and 10..

 

That's great!  I didn't even know there was a 9.9.1.  I'll definitely have to update the Pinscape build guide with that info.

[Zablon]

WOOT! Just wanted to say I finally had some success. I did some more digging and finally found there were people with the exact same issue as I had. It turns out that Windows Explorer can cause problems when loading programs. The solution is to load the .bin via command line. It is now recognized and lighting up correctly. One step down, now to get the rest done (I was successful on the first board that I initially thought I had wrecked).

Edited by Zablon, 04 March 2015 - 12:03 AM.

[mjr]

WOOT! Just wanted to say I finally had some success. I did some more digging and finally found there were people with the exact same issue as I had. It turns out that Windows Explorer can cause problems when loading programs. The solution is to load the .bin via command line. It is now recognized and lighting up correctly. One step down, now to get the rest done (I was successful on the first board that I initially thought I had wrecked).

 

That's great!  I wish they could get the bootload process on these things smoothed out - they're such nice little systems otherwise.  But at least you found a solution.  This sounds like one more note I should add to the build guide, in case anyone else runs into it.

[hauntfreaks]

ok.... so i've decided to give the potentiometer option a try.... can someone tell me what wires go where on the freescale board??

I see Lemming has 3 wire hooked up??

 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 04 March 2015 - 10:54 PM.

[mjr]

ok.... so i've decided to give the potentiometer option a try.... can someone tell me what wires go where on the freescale board??

I see Lemming has 3 wire hooked up??

 

For the one you have, it looks like OTA/OTB are the wiper contacts.  Connect Vcc on the pot to V3.3 on the KL25Z, GND on the pot to ground on the KL25Z, and OTB to PTB0.  (Or OTA if you prefer - just connect all three wires in the same block of connectors on the pot.)

 

(Just realized that the build guide leaves out the V3.3 wire.  I'll fix that.  [Edit: Done.])

Edited by mjr, 05 March 2015 - 12:04 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

Thank you again

 

ok... well that works fine.... now we know for sure its not the KL25Z

 

anyone have any thoughts on the durability of these potentiometers? after repeated fast motion??  

[mjr]

Thank you again

 

ok... well that works fine.... now we know for sure its not the KL25Z

 

anyone have any thoughts on the durability of these potentiometers? after repeated fast motion??  

 

That's a good question I'm curious about myself.  I've seen a couple of threads here in the past where people were building their own DIY handlers for these, so there's probably some experience with this out there.  Might be worth asking in a new thread (since anyone who built their own probably isn't spending a lot of time in this thread!).

[Zablon]

Thank you again

 

ok... well that works fine.... now we know for sure its not the KL25Z

 

anyone have any thoughts on the durability of these potentiometers? after repeated fast motion??  

 

I have to say that due to the rather sharp fast motion involved, that if you use it regularly you might want to keep a stock of them just in case. It seems like something that would wear out quickly. They aren't meant really for the type of usage you will be doing.

 

I would suggest you bring the extreme ends in a bit so you never actually reach either side with a pull or release (or bounce on release) to keep wear to a minimum.

Edited by Zablon, 05 March 2015 - 12:23 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

 

Thank you again

 

ok... well that works fine.... now we know for sure its not the KL25Z

 

anyone have any thoughts on the durability of these potentiometers? after repeated fast motion??  

 

I have to say that due to the rather sharp fast motion involved, that if you use it regularly you might want to keep a stock of them just in case. It seems like something that would wear out quickly. They aren't meant really for the type of usage you will be doing.

 

I would suggest you bring the extreme ends in a bit so you never actually reach either side with a pull or release (or bounce on release) to keep wear to a minimum.

 

 

 

good points...I have the lightest spring i could get for the plunger, I hope that cuts down on the violence.....  i'm also going to try to machine a piece that goes over the lever as low as possible to reduce any of the pull and push leverage... 

 

I have one more question for MJR... can this be calibrated with your calibration tool??

[mjr]

I have one more question for MJR... can this be calibrated with your calibration tool??

 

Yep, just calibrate it exactly like with the CCD.

[hauntfreaks]

perfect thanks

[mjr]

I'm working a bit on coming up with a reliable recipe for fixing tables where the analog plunger doesn't work.  I'm not there yet, but along the way I've been coming up with some source material for plunger animations.  Thought I'd share a couple of samples.  First, a cleaned-up, transparent background capture of a real plunger.

 

 

Next, a vector drawing based on this picture.

 

 

 

The vector version is a little cleaner, and has the big advantage that it has absolutely no noise around the edges from removing the background (although I managed to get a pretty clean edge on the real picture, too).  It'll also be easier to customize the tip color to create a range of options.  The spring is a little flat looking in the vector version at this scale, but if you scale it down to life size, it's not bad:

 

 

 

I actually captured a video of the real plunger across its full range of travel, so I can pull out a fine-grained set of animation frames at different spring compression levels.  I'll do the same thing with the simulated version.

 

Table creators, feel free to use these (and if you want the vector format original for further customization, I'd be happy to provide that).

Edited by mjr, 05 March 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[sliderpoint]

Have you seen this thread about plungers?  I am opposed to using Reel objects. Support is fading away and I run VP in windows portrait mode and reel objects will not rotate from 270 back to 0 degrees rotation on the table settings.

 

-Mike

[hauntfreaks]

so far so good... here's the setup... its really smooth you cant feel the potentiometer... i guess i'll try abusing it for a week or so see how it holds up..

 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 05 March 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[voliveira]

Hauntfreaks, that is a very simple and good design to move the potentiometer! Don't you have it very near to the top end of the potentiometer? If you want to push the plunger, and not just pull, do you have enough margin of movement in the potentiometer in order not to hit the upper limit?

As far as I can understand, your holder is just secure between the washer and the spring. Is it steady enough? I was thinking on changing a little bit Lemming's design in order to have the holder "holding" the washer. That way the movement of the plunger could be transfer to the potentiometer in a better and realistic way. Just my though.

 

 mjr: I already, through mbed, adapted your code (commented a lot of lines) in order to disable the accelerometer and disable the plunger. That way, I was able to get a Pinscape controller with just inputs (not yet testing the outputs). I plugged in the PC the second KL25Z with ID#7 and, of course, the PC recognizes the inputs from both KL25Z. Meaning, when I use the flippers on both they work on a VP table. But the second KL25Z is slower than the first one. I still don't understand why.

 

For now, I want to change the following in the code: have windows recognize the two Pinscape Controller with different names. Like "Pinscape Controller #1" for ID#8 and "Pinscape Controller #2" for ID#7; get DOF to handle more than one KL25Z in order to create two DOF files.

 

As soon as I have my pictures approved, I will post here the DOF config I want to use.

 

My regards to all,

 

Vitor

[hauntfreaks]

Hauntfreaks, that is a very simple and good design to move the potentiometer! Don't you have it very near to the top end of the potentiometer? If you want to push the plunger, and not just pull, do you have enough margin of movement in the potentiometer in order not to hit the upper limit?

As far as I can understand, your holder is just secure between the washer and the spring. Is it steady enough? I was thinking on changing a little bit Lemming's design in order to have the holder "holding" the washer. That way the movement of the plunger could be transfer to the potentiometer in a better and realistic way. Just my though.

 

 

Hi, the end limit of travel is about a 1/4" from the end of the potentiometer.... push??... I haven't seen a plunger setup that you can register push past it's calibrated for and aft....

the piece that is connecting the plunger to the lever on the pot is able to to move on the shaft (but is firmly in place), so if the plunger is ever pushed to far instead of trying to rip the pot out the, spring absorbs that stress...

one thing I will be doing is getting the pot lever deeper into the connection.  

but for now it all seems good i'm going to have friends over and do a good torture test...

 

in the top video you can see there is a bit motion not picked up in the beginning of the pull.... i've calibrated this many times, its still there...  MJR??

 

 

 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 06 March 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[mjr]

in the top video you can see there is a bit motion not picked up in the beginning of the pull.... i've calibrated this many times, its still there...  MJR??

 

Yeah, I see it.  It could be either mechanical or in the potentiometer.  The software can only register movement when the resistance changes, obviously, so I'd say you have a little play in there where the resistance doesn't change when you first move the rod.  In the second video there's clearly a little mechanical play where you can wiggle the rod back and forth and it'll just change the angle on the linkage without transferring any motion to the pot slider.  But it looks like there's more play in the first video than that would account for, so it could be that the pot goes non-linear at the extremes - it might reach its minimum resistance a few millimeters before the end of the travel for its slider.  If that's the case, you can get rid of the dead area by adjusting the position of the pot so that the maximum forward point on the plunger is maybe 1cm back on the pot's travel, so the pot slider never enters the non-linear region.  You might also need to tighten up the linkage to get rid of the springiness, which is going to cause a little hysteresis no matter where you position the pot.  I know you're trying to protect the pot from the extremes of motion by having a little give in the linkage, but I think you could protect it equally well by just making sure that the plunger can't hit the extremes of the slider travel.  The plunger has very hard mechanical stops at either end, so once you have things aligned you can be certain that the slider will never travel outside of the zone the plunger can reach.

[hauntfreaks]

yeah that play should be gone once i have the lever on the POT buried deeper in the plastic...