69 replies to this topic

[rob046]

Thanks for the tip I just tried it with a computer that has a ATi 9800 PRO card, but it did not make a difference. But I will try it on another computer that has a nvidia card, might be a difference then...

You may not always see a huge difference. As I said above, some tables really don't benefit at all from AF. & this only works in VP9 so make sure you have VP9 fired up.
Also, the way to really tell if its working is to take a screenshot of a table with AF disabled, take it into photoshop or something, then take one with AF 16x, then you can do click on/off the top layer real fast which will make it much easier to spot the improved areas.
Also, look for improvement more at the top half of a table (a 4:3 table).

Or it could be that older ATI cards might not work. My ATI card is the latest architecture. No idea how old a 9800 PRO might be. On older cards, they might have more of a problem forcing AA or AF onto games that don't natively support it. & that is exactly what we are doing here, forcing it on. I have to force it on in both VP & FP.

Btw, I think this is a great thing that at least most or all modern Nvidia & ATI cards can force AF onto VP & FP.
This means there is no excuse for anybody to not have this enabled.
So if people are just finding out about this now, which some are, that is a pretty sweet deal. A way for everybody to increase image quality on all their tables, & we didn't even need VP10 to do it!

[bitupset]

just what i needed to hear, now i have to redo all my preview videos! THANKS GUYS!!!

[Noah Fentz]

just what i needed to hear, now i have to redo all my preview videos! THANKS GUYS!!!

You don't really need to redo them, unless the adjustment made a very significant difference in your FS rendering. I would think the impact on FS tables would be minimal.

[jpsalas]

Thanks for the tip Noah. Turning on AF makes a big difference if you are using images bigger than 1024x1024. You don't see much difference with images no bigger than 1024x1024.

I have a GTS 250 and if I turn on AA then the triggers disappear and there are some rendering errors in the dropwalls and lights. It may be the driver. But I thought about Bob as he said that suddenly the triggers became invisible. Well, turning on the AA makes them disappear on my computer.

JP

[Bob5453]

I have a GTS 250 and if I turn on AA then the triggers disappear and there are some rendering errors in the dropwalls and lights. It may be the driver. But I thought about Bob as he said that suddenly the triggers became invisible. Well, turning on the AA makes them disappear on my computer.

JP

I'm glad to hear this, since no one else seems to notice or they only disappeared for me. Mine disappeared again last week, so I must have done something in the settings again, but I didn't mention it as I didn't want to appear like I was complaining over something that's not a big deal.

[Rawd]

Thanks for the tip Noah. Turning on AF makes a big difference if you are using images bigger than 1024x1024. You don't see much difference with images no bigger than 1024x1024.

I have a GTS 250 and if I turn on AA then the triggers disappear and there are some rendering errors in the dropwalls and lights. It may be the driver. But I thought about Bob as he said that suddenly the triggers became invisible. Well, turning on the AA makes them disappear on my computer.

JP

If I turn on AA, I can no longer see my flippers, along with other rendering issues as well.

[rob046]

Yeah, be careful with AA. I found AA works best in multisample mode, & keep it at 2x or 4x. Stray from either one of those things & you'll get extra problems, & also use box filtering (this may only apply to ATI cards, I forget if nvidia has its own filters). But for me with 4x multisample, many tables look fine with it, some don't.
This is why I have profiles where I can easily switch it on or off. But when a table looks OK with AA, it sure is a nice treat to have it one. Though if you don't want to deal with the glitches & switching profiles, just leave it off. Besides, VP wasn't meant for AA anyhow, & tables were never built with AA in mind, nor was VP, & these are the reasons why you can get undesired effects sometimes.

[lettuce]

If i have any AA enabled, the ball disappears on certain areas of the table, but i am using thr latest Nvidia drivers however!

Edited by lettuce, 21 August 2010 - 10:16 AM.

[StevOz]

I have a GTS 250 and if I turn on AA then the triggers disappear and there are some rendering errors in the dropwalls and lights. It may be the driver. But I thought about Bob as he said that suddenly the triggers became invisible. Well, turning on the AA makes them disappear on my computer.

JP

I'm glad to hear this, since no one else seems to notice or they only disappeared for me. Mine disappeared again last week, so I must have done something in the settings again, but I didn't mention it as I didn't want to appear like I was complaining over something that's not a big deal.

You're not alone Bob, here I've found the default VP8 star trigger image simply just doesn't appear any more at least ways as I used to use it with a light on top no matter what settings I use, another VP9 hack failure in my books.

Also the 16xAA settings provide the same improvements here in VP8 as they do in VP9 so I'm calling the statement that it only works in VP9 BS as well.

[kruge99]

OK, So to make sure I understand correctly, and to summarize:

- These settings are recommended, mostly, for playing Desktop 4 x 3 orientated tables
- AF is recommended to be set to the highest setting
- AA is hit and miss, it may improve your visual pinball experience or may produce undesirable rendering artifacts

Did I get it right?


Best Regards,
Todd.

[Rawd]

OK, So to make sure I understand correctly, and to summarize:

- These settings are recommended, mostly, for playing Desktop 4 x 3 orientated tables
- AF is recommended to be set to the highest setting
- AA is hit and miss, it may improve your visual pinball experience or may produce undesirable rendering artifacts

Did I get it right?


Best Regards,
Todd.

Got it!

[FDSystems]

OK, So to make sure I understand correctly, and to summarize:

- These settings are recommended, mostly, for playing Desktop 4 x 3 orientated tables
- AF is recommended to be set to the highest setting
- AA is hit and miss, it may improve your visual pinball experience or may produce undesirable rendering artifacts

Did I get it right?


Best Regards,
Todd.

Got it!

Replay!!!

[grinch11]

sorry for the stupid q, but I cant see exactly how to change that
i have not great graphics and performance on a laptop with ATI HD 3400
using VP9 with 800 x 480 full x16 with HD render off
i dont see any option for AA or AF, but computers are not my 1st language

[RealApprentice]

That funny just downloaded your udated Breakshot table. The LR version doesnt benefit from changing this setting and looks ok to me either way. The HR version looks blurry without changing this setting but after changing the setting looks crisp again.

suppose it al depends on the resolution of the resource images used. Does anyone know if this setting will cause performance loss etc?

[Rawd]

That funny just downloaded your udated Breakshot table. The LR version doesnt benefit from changing this setting and looks ok to me either way. The HR version looks blurry without changing this setting but after changing the setting looks crisp again.

suppose it al depends on the resolution of the resource images used. Does anyone know if this setting will cause performance loss etc?

This is interesting info.

[pizz]

I tested this with funhouse FS and got same results as Rawd. Doesnt seem to help much for FS tables.

Which is fine though, because both ways look good in FS. Nice and crispy!

Ya I agree FS Funhouse looks pretty good. Id really like to see full HD res playfield images though. But that all starts with the image capture. Not alot you can do after the fact.

[pinuck]

I tested this with funhouse FS and got same results as Rawd. Doesnt seem to help much for FS tables.

The FS tables I tested had little if any noticeable difference as well, with one exception.

I've been redrawing a table in highres, and have been banging my head against the wall why my "lit" version of the PF is blurry and the main one isn't, even though they are identical resolution/dimensions.

Changing the AF setting to maximum completely fixed the problem:

Before:


After:


Before:


After:


Is this something wrong with how the table was originally designed/coded?
IIRC, the lit inserts are drop walls that fall below the PF when off.

[kruge99]

The FS tables I tested had little if any noticeable difference as well, with one exception.

I've been redrawing a table in highres, and have been banging my head against the wall why my "lit" version of the PF is blurry and the main one isn't, even though they are identical resolution/dimensions.

Changing the AF setting to maximum completely fixed the problem:

Before:


After:


Is this something wrong with how the table was originally designed/coded?
IIRC, the lit inserts are drop walls that fall below the PF when off.

First, my apologies for the "wall-of-text" reply below. I did a little bit of reading the other day when Noah posted his image quality pics and this is what I think I've learned about AF. It's probably because even in FS mode, there is still a table "inclination" setting value on the backdrop settings, that makes that drop wall non-parallel to the monitor surface. This is what makes things like the bumpers and flippers appear in 3D to the human eye even though they are flat like the ball is. AF is still re-sampling the image on the wall and trying to "squish" the top of it into a trapezoid to make it appear like there is perspective. This re-sampling is what is making the text on the light blurry. By increasing the samples for AF to maximum, the video card/drivers are using more pieces of the image to make a new one that is rendered on the screen. Try turning AF back to it's default setting and then change the table inclination on the Backdrop settings to something like 35, 38, 40, and 42 to see if the light images are any better. Another idea would be to switch from dropwalls to lights to see if there is a difference in image quality.


Best Regards,
Todd.

[BamBam]

Thanks for the tip folks. It's time for me to break the bank and upgrade my pinball PC. My ATI Radeon 9600 AGP doesn't push those high resolutions out that some of you have running. I am still running at 1024 x 768 with some minor chugging on the FP tables.

[LeilaniLad]

Instead of setting this for a global, I would recommend setting it just for VP9. Changing a global setting for a single application is like swatting a fly with a Buick.