88 replies to this topic

[rob046]

I, an owner of real pinballs and also a fan of simulated pinball.....& I can NOT get into FS, I tried! 4:3 all the way.
I think a lot of real pin owners generally feel the same way about cabinet sim pinball. Once you are a real pinball collector, & know & love the feel of a real pinballl... its damn hard to get into a FS LCD pinball game. Something just feels so "off" about it.

Also, I'm picky about my pinball, even with VP I'm all about what looks & feels most accurate to the real thing, and no matter how hard I try, I can't make myself have the illustion of playing anything with proper depth or dimensions with FS.

That said, let's hope that we are currently in the very early stages of what might be something a bit more advanced and feasable for FS sims. So maybe in 5-10 years, we will have something that I can at least tolerate & might even prefer over 4:3.
Right now, I say my biggest issue is that LCD tech isn't good enough. The color reproduction & washout on most affordable LCD's when viewed at such an angle are pretty horrendous, which is tough for me cuz I'm anal about details like that, & there are some LCD's that are better than others, but you gotta pay up for those. Moreover, I do think that what is most needed is software that is created & inteded for full screen, cab displays. Something that can add that depth, yeah maybe even some sort of 3d as has been mentioned in these forums.

HOWEVER, I also have a fear with pin sim cabinets that probably many other pinheadz do to some extent...which is that I fear that people will start being content with their FS cabinet, that they spent lots of money on...instead of buying, playing, & supporting REAL pinball.

Its quite easy for me to enjoy my real pins, but still enjoy VP. Its free, & I can enjoy all the tables I don't have, get a taste of them, and check out some of the original works as well. But any $$ that I put into my pinball hobby, all goes to real pinball.
So I hope VP acts more like a motivator for people to get out & buy, play, & support real pins in some way. I feel that with cabinets some people are trying to replace real pinball with their cabs. It just seems like those playing at 4:3 are happy with VP as it was meant to be, or simply don't want to spend the kind of $$ required for a cab.
I feel like VP/FP should not be real pinball replacements, that would be bad for pinball if that were the case. But spending this $$ for a cab, that is cash going toward the VP/FP hobby instead of the real pin hobby, & that does worry me.

Sim pinball can never replace real pinball. Unlike MAME, you simply can NOT replicate everything about a real pinball on a computer or console. Pinball is special in that way. VP/FP is great for checking out tables you don't have access to in real life, and for those who can't afford or play much real pinball for whatever reason. So VPM certainly has its place for those who own 40 real pins to enjoy, & those who have access to no real pinball to enjoy.
So I continue to hope that VP and the cabs help real pinball, help keep it relevant, but it could hurt real pinball if we aren't careful, if we start enjoying these cabs a bit too much.
Aside from all that, I still think 4:3 VP is better to play, it just feels better, more normal. One option not in the poll, I think a great setup is playing in 4:3, yet still using a 2nd monitor for the dispay/backglass. I'm trying to set that up for myself right now.

[moogster66]

I just don't see the point in setting up two monitors while playing in 4:3. When the 4:3 tables have the backglasses built in to the table, it seems like a waste of a monitor to me. So you can have two scoreboards going at the same time? What's the point?

[Noah Fentz]

You'd actually only have one score display, and it could be much larger on a second screen.

Let's not forget, the most common resolution when viewing this site is still 1024x768, believe it, or not.

[moogster66]

So a second monitor just to see the score bigger? I'm not trying to jab anyone for their setup. That's one of the great things about the software, you can set it up in different ways. To each his own. I'm just missing the point of it.

[Sandro]

So a second monitor just to see the score bigger? I'm not trying to jab anyone for their setup. That's one of the great things about the software, you can set it up in different ways. To each his own. I'm just missing the point of it.

It's done so that the table (4:3 version) takes up more of the screen while still keeping the DMD above and on center of the table. For example PD's tables and now JP's tables have the backglass built in so that you can put the DMD above and on center however this sacrifices some space, where as Groni's tables utilize the most space possible in 4:3 and removes the built in backglass thus allowing the use of a second monitor to provide you with a DMD display that now is not only still above and on center but naturally can be larger as well and obviously gives you the full backglass image of the table as well.

[Noah Fentz]

Here's an example of the difference, and I think it's pretty clear.

Mind the fact that the DMD in the backglass version is only twice the size, and could be bigger yet. I've found some video modes quite difficult with a smaller, desktop monitor.

[moogster66]

The backglass is bigger than the table, kinda the opposite of a pinball table don't ya think? I guess if I played in 4:3, I would want to play that way. I have played both ways, and it's FS for me.

Edited by moogster66, 04 June 2010 - 10:51 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

The backglass is bigger than the table, kinda the opposite of a pinball table don't ya think? I guess if I played in 4:3, I would want to play that way. I have played both ways, and it's FS for me.

I was comparing DMDs, but now that you mention it, I have a 32" monitor for tables and a 17" CRT for backglasses, so it works just fine until my cab is finished.

You're just being difficult.

[moogster66]

Just expressing my point is all. I know since you are the moderator of the site there is some neutrality involved. I realize there are people on a budget. I did not build a cab for that reason. I found a cheaper way, but it still cost quite a bit. You yourself are building a cab, so you obviously think it's worth the cost to play in FS. I have never seen a topic on this site that starts out like "I wish I had never built my cab!". There are a few who state that they have tried FS and don't like it, that's fine. But I think for the most part when people try FS, they stick with it.

[Noah Fentz]

I wish I had never starting building my cab, since I lack the funds to finish it!

[moogster66]

TOUCHE! But the point is you STARTED building it why? To play in FS. You will FINISH it why? To play in FS. Nuff said!

[billyrjse]

Well, What I have to say is that I prefer 4:3. I'm pretty picky with graphics and much more with physics. I have turned my monitor to play in FS mode. Sorry, but I agree with Sandro and Groni. Groni for me is the man! He knows what he says and to me his opinion is enough. FS tables seem flat and without depth perception. Specially those tables that have ramps and 3D objects. In no real pinball machine you can have the top vision like FS tables have. It is impossible!! Unless that who plays has more than 3 meters high and is a hunchback . I have asked opinions about the FS and 4:3 versions, and I respect all. But certainly I prefer 4:3 tables.
Respectfully,
Billy

[Noah Fentz]

...you STARTED building it why?...

Mainly, because I'm intrigued by technology and hope to further FS tables with lighting designed to improve the lack of depth in the imagery.

The other reason, well, you'll find out soon enough.

[moogster66]

...you STARTED building it why?...

Mainly, because I'm intrigued by technology and hope to further FS tables with lighting designed to improve the lack of depth in the imagery.

The other reason, well, you'll find out soon enough.

And again I say TOUCHE! And I'm happy that you are trying to make the FS tables even better. But you will still be playing in FS.

[billyrjse]

Noah, I would like to be surprised with a impresive FS table. I know you are very talented. But honestly, I think it's hard!

Greetings!

[moogster66]

Noah, I would like to be surprised with a impresive FS table. I know you are very talented. But honestly, I think it's hard!

Greetings!

What was the last FS table you played?

[billyrjse]

Noah, I would like to be surprised with a impresive FS table. I know you are very talented. But honestly, I think it's hard!

Greetings!

What was the last FS table you played?

JP's Jack*Bot

[moogster66]

That table did not impress you?

[Itchigo]

4:3 All the way!! A bigger screen yes, but I can't afford one so I've got a 19 in. 4:3 above my Kenwood stereo cabinet. Is it old school enough with the vhs tapes holding up the moniter?

Attached Files

•  Kenwood_Pinball.zip   374.23KB   18 downloads

[Noah Fentz]

Noah, I would like to be surprised with a impresive FS table. I know you are very talented. But honestly, I think it's hard!

Greetings!

What was the last FS table you played?

Whirlwind!