35 replies to this topic

[pinball buzz]

Thanks Sonny Jim,
Downloading now - will give them a go over the weekend

Cheers Buzz

[destruk]

Sonny - even people releasing hacked mod files that we have added to vpm, test it on a real machine. We emulate a real machine with VPM. Owners try out new rom code with VPM and they depend on it to make a determination on whether to load rom code into their real machines. We just can't add a romset that would ruin a $1000+ pinball table.

Sorry you feel the way you do, but if you can't either list your changes to the rom code, or test it on a real pinball machine, there isn't any way we can add it to vpm officially with a risk of destroying something we are trying to preserve. At least if you have a legible (to the average pinball owner) list of what your modifications are, and you remove the disclaimer that prevents any recourse for using your work, then we could all claim - sorry, we didn't know it'd burn up all the coils in your game. And hacked romsets have been added to VPM before that are 100% harmless to a pinball machine - check out Mach Zois, the 7-digit hack roms, white water home version roms, even the Twilight Zone 94h rom you modified are safe to use. Simply giving a link to the source code for your changes isn't cut and dried and you haven't spent any time to make sure your changes don't have ill effects so what other choice do we have?


That's all I sent to you - I figured you were the type of person who picks a fight with anyone for any reason, and I hate being right all the time. Now what in any message have I sent you was so bad as to ruin your minute? It's your own disclaimer(s) that even caused this to be an issue. Telling me to just go away isn't nice, so you can either apologize and get over it, or not. Of course there is also an ignore list on this forum. You don't want it added, you don't want the CRC check disabled, you just want it to be business as usual, that's fine then. I'm pretty sure anyone reading this thread can easily see what kind of person is behind the keyboard on both sides.

[Iceman5000]

I'm can't believe you've wasted my time like this, let me get this straight.

You are an asshole.

Thanks.

Unfeakin' believable!!!!

[lettuce]

What I mean is, can it be used in conjuntion with Pinmame, to activate motors, and other items. I have a Virtual Cab build.



Would be sweet if for some games I can activate the thumper for extra ball, or extra game, ect. I Rumbler for games like TFTC. ect ect.

H4CK3R

Seems like you would need something like this to run your cab effects. Looks like it could be hooked up to any thing from blinking lit buttons to firing knockers.
Might be able put something in the table script that tells the pacdrive to start an effect when table events happen like replay, similar to playing a sound in the script.
I'm sure they have articles or posts about doing this over at hyperpin, because I'm just guessing on one possible way to do it.

I think hooking a real knocker up would be a cool mod for pincabs, a shaker motor or solenoids for slings, flippers, and bumpers might be a bit overkill.

Going to look into FreeWPC when I get crazy enough to make my own Bill Paxton project except I would prolly do Arnold theme... too many good one liners.

I have one of those boards somewhere, i got it back the other year to power some leds, and setup light cycles. I was only reading it yesterday that i list as use of solenoids, not sure how though???

[Dazz]

I'm can't believe you've wasted my time like this, let me get this straight.

You are an asshole.

Thanks.

Wow... really? Just wow...

You come here asking for help in testing, yet this is how you react to legit questions about the project.

Perhaps you should go back and read, word for word on what has been posted and questions that have been asked. Then seriously ask yourself "Who's really the asshole here?"

BTW - the project sounds really cool and it can be benefited by both VPM and real table owners.

Edited by Dazz, 28 May 2010 - 12:46 AM.

[freewpc]

As the original author of this software, I want to add a few of my own comments to this thread.

#1 I would personally prefer if users don't need to rename rom files to get them to work in VPM - this can be done a number of different ways.

No disagreement from here on that. The way we install today is totally a hack. But the fact that the software changes so frequently, makes it unfeasible to add a correct SHA1 checksummed driver entry. However, even today, PinMAME complains about bad CRC, so that really isn't the issue. It would be enough just to add a generic entry for "TZ - FreeWPC version", whatever version that might be. That would at least allow people to experiment with it without any danger of overwriting their real ROM files. I have no strong opinion on whether a change like this is made, but that's how I'd do it.

The FreeWPC build process creates new filenames like ftz_0_06.rom, beginning with "f" to denote the FreeWPC version. I rename them just for testing, but I always publish them with the new names to avoid confusion.

#2 If I was to add this romset into VPM, I would want some assurance that the romset being added does something unique - has some redeeming value.

Also agreed. The fact that anyone CAN create a new version of Popeye does not mean that anyone cares I've gotten by for 5 years without any special support from you guys, anything more is gravy. Without pinmame this project never would have worked; the first few years of testing were all done in emulation. So thanks!

#3 I would also want the romset itself to not damage a real machine, should some owner put the code on a chip and put it into their machine.

What does that have to do with pinmame though? You're not distributing the ROMs; we are. I do understand that up until now, people are used to playing only official ROMs, and so that expectation is there of being solid and mature. And if you believe that including a FreeWPC ROM driver tacitly "endorses" the project, and you choose not to do that, then I understand. But I'm not sure if that's your concern or not.

Oh, and regarding the "burn your game up" disclaimer, that's always been my approach to the matter. Until you've worked with software like this, you have no idea how ridiculously easy it is to mess things up. Luckily I did that in an emulator before ever putting it into a real game. If people stick to one of the "tested" ROMs, they shouldn't be paranoid about it. But I'm obligated to let people know what their warranty is. It's really no different than the standard GPL "use at your own risk", just a tad bit stronger...

Thanks!
Brian

[epthegeek]

I'm can't believe you've wasted my time like this, let me get this straight.

You are an asshole a reasonable, well spoken, logical person.

Thanks.

Fixed that for you, Sonny.

[destruk]

Freewpc - I really like what you've been doing here, and I don't mind at all if you want me to add the sha1 and crc or anything to the program. I can make it easier by avoiding the crc check altogether if it will help your project - it's really not an issue. It's up to you guys where it goes from here though. My intent isn't to get in your way. So make it as simple as possible, you can download tortoiseSVN - pull down the source code from https://pinmame.svn....svnroot/pinmame and check out controllergame.cpp - that runs the fMaybeOK popup window - save you a few clicks during your development/testing process if that window doesn't come up every time you run your new rom.

[highrise]

hey guys

I think we should all start again here... it seems to me, coming in to this late as I have and read through the posts from the start to finish in one go, that a few wires got crossed, they created sparks, the sparks made a fire, and all of sudden we had a flame.

So shall we do the decent thing and put all the hostility down to misunderstanding? We all share the same passion for pinball and that passion can create friction. The fact is we are all aware of pinball becoming more and more a part of the past, and less a part of the present. We address this in two ways, the first being preserving material for future generations, the second being finding ways to create new work. Sometimes it's difficult to marry the two together, but whichever side you are focused on, I think we can all agree that the spirit and intention of the work is primarily the same, and that collaboration is better than conflict.

So, clean slate guys? We kind of tilted just now, let's stick another coin in and start afresh.

[destruk]

AFAIK there is only one guy with a problem, and since you can't argue with yourself, it's just his problem. Is anyone else upset?

[highrise]

I don't really think that is in the spirit of a 'clean slate' Brian

The whole point of a misunderstanding is that it's a two way thing. One person may have said something incorrectly, the other may have interpreted it in the wrong way. I happen to have messaged both of you with some regularity and know that you are both fair minded reasonable guys that love pinball. So if either of you thinks the other is an asshole, there's definitely been a misunderstanding which has escalated. Sometimes you can just catch someone at a bad time or whatever.

So, like I said, best thing to do is just start afresh and put it down to that.

[Noah Fentz]

Everybody needs to keep in mind that we DO have rules here ... all THREE of them!

Keep it clean: Don't use excessive and unnecessary obscenities, and please refrain from any obscenities outside Big Bang Bar.. If it would be inappropriate to say to or show to your grandmother, don't do it outside the bar. I want a typical 14 year old kid to be able to come here and participate without feeling uncomfortable. This should be a minor-friendly place. Let's take the responsibility of passing this great hobby on to the next generations seriously.

I don't think that is too much to ask.


Yeah, I know I'm late on this, but I've been busy!

[dave the cool]

Everybody needs to keep in mind that we DO have rules here ... all THREE of them!

Keep it clean: Don't use excessive and unnecessary obscenities, and please refrain from any obscenities outside Big Bang Bar.. If it would be inappropriate to say to or show to your grandmother, don't do it outside the bar. I want a typical 14 year old kid to be able to come here and participate without feeling uncomfortable. This should be a minor-friendly place. Let's take the responsibility of passing this great hobby on to the next generations seriously.

I don't think that is too much to ask.


Yeah, I know I'm late on this, but I've been busy!

I'm 15 , and I am used to this stuff so I don't really mind... although I agree with Noah:Don't use excessive and unnecessary obscenities.

[Shockman]

Yeah, any 9 year old that uses the internet is going to be jaded.

[Noah Fentz]

Well, let's not forget...

Keep it civil: Don't engage in personal attacks, name-calling, or blanket generalizations in your discussions. Say how you feel or what you think, but be careful about telling others how they "should" think. People seeking to engage and discuss will find themselves asking questions, seeking clarifications, and describing their own opinion. People seeking to "win an argument" sometimes end up taking cheap shots, calling people names, and generally trying to intimidate others. My advice: don't try to win.