49 replies to this topic

[EalaDubhSidhe]

Old pins are about how much you score, new pins are about how much you achieve. While this isn't the fault of the game design, pins I've tended to play least are those with scores in the billions. It just doesn't *mean* anything.

Pins that stand out for me as being particularly 'bad':

The X-Files: easily the weakest of all the Sega pins, and that includes the uninspired fifty percent that all have the same dull shots, the same dull modes, the same dull feel and only the most tenuous gameplay links to their license (I'm looking at YOU, Goldeneye).

Scared Stiff: am I the only person that DESPISES this machine for the vast number of unfair bounce drains straight down the left outlane from the crate eject? It happens on every single SS I've ever got my hands on.

Robocop: overpowered flippers made it impossible to react to where any shot was going to go. Down the drain before you know it.

Family Guy: first ball, down the left outlane. Second ball, bad bounce off the drop targets. Third ball, Fart Multiball, Lard Multiball, Stewie Pinball, Super Jackpots, Extra Ball, Replay, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Every single game.

[blur]

anything made before 1985 lol

i don't like anything made after golden 80's


too many ramps and tunnels, too many figures on the table, you don't have any place left for playing, these ramps and figures take half of the table, every target is two inches from flipper

most of them look like cartoons

[Theguyoverthere]

anything made before 1985 lol

i don't like anything made after golden 80's


too many ramps and tunnels, too many figures on the table, you don't have any place left for playing, these ramps and figures take half of the table, every target is two inches from flipper

most of them look like cartoons

I agree with glassmanipulator, games before 1985 are boring. You just bat the ball around and hit random targets, bumpers, etc. There aren't any "safe" shots that return the ball to your flipper, so even if you hit the thing you're aiming at, you can still get screwed over... And all you're trying to do is get a high score. To do that, on most games it's just an endurance test, how long can you bat the ball around? Newer games require you to make certain shots at certain times, and you have to know how to use the rulesets to your advantage, and plus getting Jackpots complete with animations and sounds is just really satisfying...

[lupo51ca]

Old pins are about how much you score, new pins are about how much you achieve. While this isn't the fault of the game design, pins I've tended to play least are those with scores in the billions. It just doesn't *mean* anything.

Pins that stand out for me as being particularly 'bad':

The X-Files: easily the weakest of all the Sega pins, and that includes the uninspired fifty percent that all have the same dull shots, the same dull modes, the same dull feel and only the most tenuous gameplay links to their license (I'm looking at YOU, Goldeneye).

Scared Stiff: am I the only person that DESPISES this machine for the vast number of unfair bounce drains straight down the left outlane from the crate eject? It happens on every single SS I've ever got my hands on.

Robocop: overpowered flippers made it impossible to react to where any shot was going to go. Down the drain before you know it.

Family Guy: first ball, down the left outlane. Second ball, bad bounce off the drop targets. Third ball, Fart Multiball, Lard Multiball, Stewie Pinball, Super Jackpots, Extra Ball, Replay, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Every single game.

I agree with you 100% on the X-Files, I would also say that the file cabinet was also one of my biggest complaints with that game having the ball get stuck part way in and have to wait for a ball search. This has happened on every one I've ever played.

As for Scared Stiff, I've never had that happen on the crate eject on any of them I've played. Although it's been a while since I've played one, I'll have to check it out next time I play. Perhaps it has something to do with the level of the machine to why the ball is draining so fast.

[grapper]

How can you say ground-breaking tables such as Flash and Gorgar are not good? Just because they don't have ramps, multiball, toys and deep rule sets does not mean that they are bad tables.

Of course they were good for their time, but even though the T-ford was fantastic for its time I don´t see many people driving around in them today?
In general I think the people getting acquinted with pinball during the nineties will have a hard time going back to the older tables, but I might be wrong.

At the end of the day it´s about personal preference.

Edited by grapper, 14 March 2010 - 09:20 AM.

[TheMcD]

I never said I didn't like pre-85 pins. I just said they were my least favorite - I'd just choose a 90's Bally over a 60's Gottlieb every time.

The McD

[laurentjost]

Hello,
Sorry for my English I use a translator.

I hope posting in the right place. I like the flippers of PATATROX I feel he was in the same bar as me. Black Hole, Devil's Dare, Haunted House, Pink Panther, Time Line I would add Panthera, Buck Rogers over the last mechanical pinball machines and early electro.
Strongly that someone has come to convert them in Fullscreen.

Good evening and bright flip

[ta2686]

At the end of the day it´s about personal preference.

Amen to that!

[LaughingOtter]

That's very very true.

But I'd like to add Gottlieb's Jacks to Open. The same twenty notes bleeping over and over as "music" and the almost infinite STDM possibilities made this the most TILT-able game in my book.

After a while of hanging out with the pinball crowd in Seattle you find that there are definite preferences. Some people prefer the EM machines because they really did take some skill to get a high score on. Some people like all the toys and things on the new games. You'll see these differences brought out during the competitions and Tourneys as there will usually be a mix of EM, SS, and digital games. Mostly it's about forcing a competitor to play a game style they don't like. That's how I won the competition last month, I think. The EMs got used as playoff games and those are the ones I grew up on (I'm one of those weirdos who likes ALL styles of pinball, you see.)

[moogster66]

I like the 70's 80's tables myself. Black Knight, Gorgar, Flash Gordon, Centaur, are some of my favorites. This may sound like a silly analogy, but I compare newer tables to a diamond ring. If you look at a ladies hand, and she has on an overly large diamond ring on her hand, you say "wow!" But after that you say, "Man that looks gaudy!" Do we really need a dancing Elvis on our table? I like to play the newer tables for the WOW factor, but when I want to get into some serious pinball, I go back to the older tables. It really depends on when you grew up, and what tables you are most comfortable with. It's like with video games, some people like fighters, others like puzzle games like Tetris. Plus I like the older tables because I don't need a long rules list, you plug in the quarters and you play.

Edited by moogster66, 16 March 2010 - 12:58 PM.

[KloggMonkey]

The thing that seems to be a determining factor in a tables I dislike are sounds, If a table has too many sound 'clips' instead of sound 'effects' or if it sounds irritating it goes on my bad list.
Tales from the Crypt and Last Action Hero come to mind here.

I am really impressed with the older tables with limited sound effects yet they still keep it sounding great without crossing over into the irritating zone.

[laurentjost]

I use a translator.

I actually think that preferences are linked with each youth.

I like the flips and video games but I have difficulty with those of my children. I love when I get to play one of my boys to old games. The pinball happened last summer was much more than great. It helped me finish a ghost and goblins and they loved the game simple as "motos".

Good day

[PainkillerAlice]

How can you say ground-breaking tables such as Flash and Gorgar are not good? Just because they don't have ramps, multiball, toys and deep rule sets does not mean that they are bad tables.

Of course they were good for their time, but even though the T-ford was fantastic for its time I don´t see many people driving around in them today?
In general I think the people getting acquinted with pinball during the nineties will have a hard time going back to the older tables, but I might be wrong.

At the end of the day it´s about personal preference.

One of things with older tables, at least for me, is that it is a historic journey of sorts. I myself like history, so I get easily enamored with the older stuff. Late 70's and 80's pinball has really cool sound effects (Williams and Stern (old Stern) at least) that make me want to play the games over and over.

[Bob Creepy]

Absolutely everything Atari P-U bad sounds bad table layout, flipper placement, etc...

My gripe with some of the older 50's - 70's tables is on some games having to sacrifice a ball or 2 to make a scoring objective. So basically being 2 balls closer to game over just to light up the extra ball target???

Newer games post 80's aren't my bag either, played World Cup the other day for the first time had a replay just into ball 2, gave it to the kid that was watching me.

Played Big Buck today at a theatre, ball seemed kinda weird and that stupid plastic deer kept getting in my way, wish I had a high powered riffle with me! It was the only pin there though, 20 video games, 2 air hockey & 1 pinball machine. Cost a big buck to play it too


OMG add Williams Blue Chip to the list. Went and looked at one to buy it, most blah graphics ever, terrible layout and dreadfully boring gameplay! I Kept hitting posts instead of targets I had about 10 shots in a row to different parts of the table without scoring any points... then down the drain it went.

The guy wanted $800, let's see what he's asking 6 months from now

Edited by Bob Creepy, 23 March 2010 - 04:13 AM.

[IcePagoda]

Of those I've played:

Popeye Saves The Earth
Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball
South Park
Escape From The Lost World

Honorable mentions:

Bally Game Show
No Good Gofers (my least favorite Lawlor)
Hurricane

And this one wouldn't be in the list if the left two lanes were proper in/out lanes:

Spy Hunter

[Crazy Bonus]

Pin* Bot for me, but it is a love hate relationship. Those outlanes can drive you crazy, it always seems I'm never in control of the game and I'm not a big fan of that.

[Tomcat Leader]

I thought I posted here, guess not.

Tables that are NOT favorites:

High Speed
Xenon (This is the table I thought I posted on)
Big Guns
Flight 2000
Firepower
Black Knight
Bad Girls
Playboy (Bally)
Secret Service
WSOP


These are the BIGGEST drain monsters in pinball history!! The outlanes are monotonous for draining and there are suicide shots on others, Xenon being one. You go for the ramp and if you don't get a GOOD shot at it, it comes right between the flippers and done.
"Swing and a miss, inning over." Some, High Speed and Big Guns, you try to nudge the ball out of the outlane..... and it tilts!!
You could sneeze on Secret Service and it tilts. Bad Girls had TOO many suicide shots, it seemed.

[templarjh]

I have a hard time criticizing tables, since a lot of work still goes into the bad ones. With that disclaimer out of the way:

No Fear
Black Knight 2000 (partly because I just can't get interested in it, partly because it's always so loud you can hear it halfway across a convention room)
The Party Zone
Star Wars Trilogy
more I'm sure, nothing else comes to mind though

Jive Time takes the cake by far though, and a big reason for that is because someone saw fit to include it on the Williams Collection video game. Why why why did they have to put that one on there :/ People are going to think all EMs are that bad.
Black Knight is my least favorite of all the 2-level Williams games, but Grand Lizard is probably my favorite and I don't really dislike Black Knight, so oh well.

As far as EMs vs. DMDs, I'll take a good EM any day, and I guess I'm a bit out of the mainstream since I first played EMs on emulation. To each his own though.

[Greywolf]

Tomcat Leader:

1. Tilting is machine-specific. you can't blame that on a specific make and model.
2. Firepower can be a drain monster, but if you tune it right, you can also beat it out of being one.
3. Black Knight is NOT a drain monster. Mine isn't, anyway...

Actually, it all depends on the machine and how it's set up. And on that front, most pinballs were
DESIGNED to be drain monsters.

Other than that, I got nothin'.

[Tomcat Leader]

I wasn't referring to your table, Greywolf, it's spot on. I was talking about the real tables that I played. I nearly went bald trying to hit the ramp on Xenon for multi-ball and ended up pulling my hair out at the roots. The Firepower at Tangeman Hall, if you got over 100,000 you considered yourself lucky. Yes, tilting is machine specific and some operators took that to their advantage. Secret Service was one you could not nudge no matter what without tilting.