64 replies to this topic

[ruckage]

...so for me VP far outweighs FP, yeah you must make each and every rubber from scratch, but isn't that half the fun? to actually create rather than just stretch existing objects? it is for me...

I shouldn't comment but I will anyway . I'm sure this wasn't meant in an offensive way but it reminded me of the old days. One of the regular things I'd read on forums from VP veterans when FP first came out was that making a table in FP required no skill because we didn't have to model every item from scratch. To me that's pretty much the same as saying real pins are easy to make as they just grab components off a shelf - and shock horror they don't even model a rubber point by point - they just stretch it around the pegs.
Believe me designing a table well in FP takes huge ammounts of work, as it does in VP as well.
Anyway mini rant over - that just bought up bad memories of when I first came on the scene and there seemed to be huge animosity towards FP designers for one reason or another, it was the reason at the time I avoided VP related forums and hid in the FP forums. I think it's great here now, i think we've all matured and there seems to be mutual repspect from VP and FP authors for the work involved - just don't say FP designers don't create

P.S - how many more VP vs FP topics before people get bored, there is no right and wrong, they both have advantages an disadvantages - just play both and stop worrying about it.

[Noah Fentz]

...how many more VP vs FP topics before people get bored, there is no right and wrong, they both have advantages an disadvantages - just play both and stop worrying about it.

I couldn't agree more.

[hgpinball]

@ Cysma: here's the ROMs (add .zip) you need for the tables you are listing, extracted from my tables list created by VP-man:

Attack/Revenge From Mars: afm_113, afm_113b
Black Knight: bk_l4
Bow & Arrow: bowarrow
Back to the Future: bttf, bttf_a27
Comet: comet_l4
Cyclone: cycln_l5
Dragon: dragon
Monopoly: monopoly (may need patch!)
Playboy: play, playboy, playboys
Rolling Stones: rollston, rollstob
Royal Flush: rflshdlx
Cirqus Voltaire: cv_10, cv_11, cv_13, cv_14, cv_20h
Eight Ball: eightbll
Star Trek: startrek, startreb
Star Trek TNG: sttng_l7, sttng_s7, sttng_x7, sttng_p5
Tee'd Off: teedoff1, teedoff3
TOTAN: totan_12, totan_13, totan_14
Who Dunnit: wd_12
Whirlwind: whirl_l3
World Cup Soccer: wcs_l2

At least these work for me... all downloaded from the VPF or IPDB.org

Edited by hgpinball, 24 February 2010 - 04:26 PM.

[rascal]

VP itself takes no setup time whatsoever. You don't even have to install it. If you run vpinball.exe, it opens. As mentioned before, originals or EM tables created in VP don't use ROMs and will run straight from box. It is only when you want to run pinmame ROM dumps from actual pinball machines that you run into tricky setup times and configurations. But then you are truly emulating a working pinball processor.

From an authors standpoint, there is nothing that VP can't do. You can even have it email you or open any ActiveX plugin you want. Hell I could probably program it to do my tax return. If you are a programmer, you can create COM objects such as vpinmame, vpPlus, or any other program you can think of to communicate with it. There is always a work around when it comes to VP. The program itself is old, yet people find new ways to make tables look fresh and new. It brings out the creative genius in the authors.

Is VP perfect? No, but you have to consider that the program is old for the most part, yet it has stood the test of time and is still producing outstanding emulations, reproductions, and original creations. Hell you're not even limited to just pinball with it. I can attest to that as I have made a shooting gallery (Bally Sharpshooter), a foosball table, and am now working on a retro bowler. I'm not saying that VP is better then FP, I'm just saying that VP is freaking versatile and is only limited by the author's creativity or ability.

To the beginner author FP would probably be the best choice as I would say it has less of a learning curve to get started. The graphics are stunning even for the beginner. The 3d rendering is a plus, but the blocking of calling external apps and objects from it's scripting engine, makes it a no go for me.

Notice that I did not even get into the physics.

The bottom line is that you can run them both for the full pinball experience. Nobody is stopping you.

[TheMcD]

Move along, nothing to see here. Destruk's "announcement" - if that is the right term for that - is now here.

The McD

Edited by TheMcD, 24 February 2010 - 06:10 PM.

[Emudude]

I saw a guy playing Real Pinball once that made the ball Bounce up and hit the Top Glass. I haven't seen VP or FP do that yet. That said. I Love VP better than FP. There are way more tables for VP. Not enough Tables for FP (Sucks about no ROM Support), and FP requires a real booming computer. It works on older systems (256mb, 512mb, 1GB video card), but you have to turn everything off. As far as setting up VP. I create a Pinball Directory on my C: or D: drive, install VP to there. Unzip PinMAME to the Pinball Directory, Run the PinMAME Setup, and just say OK. Make sure your Tables are in the Table Directory, Roms are in the Roms Directory, Samples in the Samples Directory. Right Click the VPinball.exe select Compatibility and select Windows NT Service Pack 4 and Click "Run as Administrator", Wala...Everything works like a champ. Even under Windows 7.

Edited by Emudude, 11 March 2010 - 11:57 AM.

[Theguyoverthere]

I would rate FP... if it ran on my computer But since it refuses to work, no matter what I seem to do, I have to give it a 0. VP gets 100. Vp wins!

[Noah Fentz]

Having both, we ALL win!

[pastor]

For a real noob like me, Future Pinball is clearly superior to Visual pinball for a simple reason :
It works without hassle , you copy what is in the .zip in the /tables directory and it works .
With Visual Pinball, You have differents versions, Pinmame, scripts, fonts, samples to install, the choice of many differents set of roms for the same table ... the result is I couldn't manage to run any tables except the defaut topspeed table, I always get an error message, something missing etc :/
I don't understand why the tables are not saved with their associated rom so we couldn't do errors when installing
So for now, looks like geek stuff for me. It doesn't remove my respect for all the work involved on the project but frankly, it could be a little more user friendly ...;

Edited by pastor, 13 March 2010 - 07:42 AM.

[destruk]

For a real noob like me, Future Pinball is clearly superior to Visual pinball for a simple reason :
It works without hassle , you copy what is in the .zip in the /tables directory and it works .
With Visual Pinball, You have differents versions, Pinmame, scripts, fonts, samples to install, the choice of many differents set of roms for the same table ... the result is I couldn't manage to run any tables except the defaut topspeed table, I always get an error message, something missing etc :/
I don't understand why the tables are not saved with their associated rom so we couldn't do errors when installing
So for now, looks like geek stuff for me. It doesn't remove my respect for all the work involved on the project but frankly, it could be a little more user friendly ...;

Cool Story Bro!

[Theguyoverthere]

Yeah, clicking on one Visual Install Pack exe sure is a lot of work...
Heck, even setting VP up manually only takes about 5 minutes. Download VP 6 msi (optional), download VP8 and VP9, download VpinMAME and scripts and stuff. Then just put the roms in the roms folder and tables in the tables folder...

[Bob Creepy]

You don't need to download every single rom set, run the table and when the rom error comes up make a note of what rom set it is looking for then go download the correct one.

ie. I downloaded F-14-Tomcat_JP_5.01.vpt and ran it, when the Game Info screen pops up with the rom error I look at the top box entitled
Game Name: which says F14 Tomcat (L1)
The next box says
ROM set name: f14_l1

So I went and downloaded F14 Tomcat (L-1) - ROM - f14_l1.zip into my rom folder, restarted the table and played pinball!

[blur]

I would rate FP... if it ran on my computer But since it refuses to work, no matter what I seem to do, I have to give it a 0. VP gets 100. Vp wins!

Future pinball works only with nvidia and ati cards.
With all other cards it will be slow or won't work at all.
I have tried to install it on some computers with mobile or onboard graphics and it usually crashes or works slow.



as for roms in VP there was another thread of the guy that was unziping roms.
with roms it is very simple - search downloads for game name in top right corner of the forum
you will find all versions of the game - PLUS all the versions of the roms
ROMS ARE KEPT IN ZIP FILE WITH NAME OF THE GAME AND YOU SHOULD JUST COPY THEM TO YOUR ROMS FOLDER - this file is called rom set
for example if you search downloads for totem you will find VPM totem table, VP totem table, and totem.zip rom set
it is best to dowload all the rom sets you find, and game will choose which ever it wants, they have different names - so you can have them all
I have around 1400 tables and ~ 900 roms and all of them are working - I don't have any game that doesn't work because of rom

Edited by blur, 24 March 2010 - 11:05 AM.

[highrise]

FP is like this great looking young woman with a hot body that she loves to show off. You can walk down the street with her and everyone will be impressed. But the problem is, she's high maintenance, expensive to look after, and the novelty soon wears off. VP is a cougar, she may not be as hot as she was, but she cooks a mean dinner and has experience on her side - so you know, if you want a casual relationship with a mistress, go for FP. If you want someone to settle down with, it's VP all the way...

[Steve Paradis]

I am no dummy but I have never been able to make VP work properly on my actual system, so the answer is easy for me. FP.

Steve

[grapper]

Lol highrise, that was great.

[Shockman]

I am no dummy but I have never been able to make VP work properly on my actual system, so the answer is easy for me. FP.

Steve

Try the full install pack ya big dummy. To prefer FP because it runs good on your system, you like 3D, you don't like surprises, you already know how to use it, you think it looks better, plays good, easier, or any of the good reasons to use FP, is fine and understandable, but to prefer it because you can't get VP to work is a pitty, and a problem we need to fix. You need to move table files into FP's folder, that's all it takes with VP too.

Roms, to answer this threads question only partically, is the only thing harder in setting up a table to play in VP, but it's actually easy.

I don't know what your system is, but I would assume any system that runs FP smooth, is going to run VP sweet.


On a personal note, VP's biggest advantage is style. FP tables look like they could have been built by the same person, at least to me, while I could tell who developed a VP table as soon as I saw it. As a hobbiest, that is important to me.

[Rawd]

I am no dummy but I have never been able to make VP work properly on my actual system, so the answer is easy for me. FP.

Steve

What's the problem Steve? There are lots of people here who can help you out.

On a personal note, VP's biggest advantage is style. FP tables look like they could have been built by the same person, at least to me, while I could tell who developed a VP table as soon as I saw it. As a hobbiest, that is important to me.

I disagree. I can sure tell the difference between a Popotte, Greywolf, or Polygame table. I think FP gives you even more room for your own style.

[Bob5453]

I am no dummy but I have never been able to make VP work properly on my actual system, so the answer is easy for me. FP.

Steve

You are therefore a dummy according to the Bob5453 Pinball Glossary.

Dummy - (Duh - mE) adj.

Anyone who answers the following question....

"Who uses FP?

With the following answer....

"Duh, me"

[Steve Paradis]

FP tables look like they could have been built by the same person, at least to me...

Now I can see that your Actual knowledge of FP is very limited. browse fprelease a bit, it doent hurt.


On another level, some of these comments were really uncalled for and I would not lowered myself to answer in the same manner.

I have a video card specificaly tied to the PROFESSIONAL 3D SOFTWARE that I'm using wich is not abnormal thing when you are working in Broadcast design. Now, this being said
VP work on my cabinet, but I cannot do table with my cabinet and since I don't plan to buy a 3thd PC with a proper working video card, it is just not working.
Been through that issue with Destruk and Noah and David Foley a couple of time, and it is all coming down to the same thing. My work PC cannot Operate VP.

Hope it is explained better and make me look less like a big Dummy.

Steve

Edited by Steve Paradis, 24 March 2010 - 04:12 PM.