85 replies to this topic

[Outhere]

 

 

Yep… we’ve arrived… full 64 bit compatibility with Lucky’s dmd extensions instead of Freezy!

 

I have full ability to run pup games in either 32 or 64 bit versions of VPX 10.7.4

 

I Tested Scared Stiff, IMLOTB, TRON and Theater of Magic 

 

This did not fix my GOTG pup crashing issue however.  I believe we still need a 64 bit version of Pinupdisplay.exe to remedy the GOTG issue which Daphishbowl believes is a memory leak/cache  in pinup that can’t keep up with the calls from that pup.

 

So to summarize:

 

1). Follow these instructions:

 https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide

 

2) install Lucky1 64bit over Freezy:  

https://vpuniverse.c...c-file-support/

 

3) install Nailbuster Beta 64 bit pup drivers: 

https://nailbuster.c...ers_v1_beta.zip

 

THIS SHOULD ONLYBE ATTEMPTED BY ADVANCED USERS THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

 

If you wreck your setup… you’re on your own!!!  All you have to do is miss a step and you’ll be nonfunctional in some way.

 

If you’re a baller installer user… they’re working on a new installer so hold tight for that.

 

WE MADE IT… THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO MADE 64BIT POSSIBLE…. WOOHOO!

 

 

 

I'm curious - what is the benefit/need of using Lucky's DMD driver over Freezy's?   thanks

 

For now Lucky1 Files will also read Pac colors Files
Freezy will not
 

[richintx]

 

 

Yep… we’ve arrived… full 64 bit compatibility with Lucky’s dmd extensions instead of Freezy!

 

I have full ability to run pup games in either 32 or 64 bit versions of VPX 10.7.4

 

I Tested Scared Stiff, IMLOTB, TRON and Theater of Magic 

 

This did not fix my GOTG pup crashing issue however.  I believe we still need a 64 bit version of Pinupdisplay.exe to remedy the GOTG issue which Daphishbowl believes is a memory leak/cache  in pinup that can’t keep up with the calls from that pup.

 

So to summarize:

 

1). Follow these instructions:

 https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide

 

2) install Lucky1 64bit over Freezy:  

https://vpuniverse.c...c-file-support/

 

3) install Nailbuster Beta 64 bit pup drivers: 

https://nailbuster.c...ers_v1_beta.zip

 

THIS SHOULD ONLYBE ATTEMPTED BY ADVANCED USERS THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

 

If you wreck your setup… you’re on your own!!!  All you have to do is miss a step and you’ll be nonfunctional in some way.

 

If you’re a baller installer user… they’re working on a new installer so hold tight for that.

 

WE MADE IT… THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO MADE 64BIT POSSIBLE…. WOOHOO!

 

 

 

I'm curious - what is the benefit/need of using Lucky's DMD driver over Freezy's?   thanks

 

 

 

 

Yep… we’ve arrived… full 64 bit compatibility with Lucky’s dmd extensions instead of Freezy!

 

I have full ability to run pup games in either 32 or 64 bit versions of VPX 10.7.4

 

I Tested Scared Stiff, IMLOTB, TRON and Theater of Magic 

 

This did not fix my GOTG pup crashing issue however.  I believe we still need a 64 bit version of Pinupdisplay.exe to remedy the GOTG issue which Daphishbowl believes is a memory leak/cache  in pinup that can’t keep up with the calls from that pup.

 

So to summarize:

 

1). Follow these instructions:

 https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide

 

2) install Lucky1 64bit over Freezy:  

https://vpuniverse.c...c-file-support/

 

3) install Nailbuster Beta 64 bit pup drivers: 

https://nailbuster.c...ers_v1_beta.zip

 

THIS SHOULD ONLYBE ATTEMPTED BY ADVANCED USERS THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

 

If you wreck your setup… you’re on your own!!!  All you have to do is miss a step and you’ll be nonfunctional in some way.

 

If you’re a baller installer user… they’re working on a new installer so hold tight for that.

 

WE MADE IT… THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO MADE 64BIT POSSIBLE…. WOOHOO!

 

 

 

I'm curious - what is the benefit/need of using Lucky's DMD driver over Freezy's?   thanks

 

 

 

As far as I understand... Freezy didn't update his release for almost 2 years, so Lucky took over keeping the code up in an alternate branch and added further support for 64 color that also supported use in REAL machines.

 

There's an article somewhere out there where Freezy explains his philosophical reasons and disagreement with Lucky regarding using community created alt colors in REAL machines.

 

Regardless, Lucky seems to update his code on a more frequent basis and supports all of the color file formats... so for my Virtua Pin I don't need to keep swapping dll files to play games with different color file formats.

 

The general read I got is that Freezy  stopped supporting his code for such a long period of time and was therefore surpassed by Lucky's branch so I would imagine there's a lot of debugging to catch up with.

 

Freezy is still the originator of dmd extensions and a VPinball elder statesman that should be given a great many thanks for his contribution.

 

I apologize if what I stated is not completely stated 100% correct/complete.... but that's the short version which you can research yourself if you like.

Edited by richintx, 22 March 2023 - 08:50 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

The general read I got is that Freezy  stopped supporting his code for such a long period of time and was therefore surpassed by Lucky's branch so I would imagine there's a lot of debugging to catch up with.

 

dont know that i would agree with that statement.

[djredick]

For now Lucky1 Files will also read Pac colors Files
Freezy will not

 

From what I read on VPU, Freezy will NEVER support pac files.

[wiesshund]

 

For now Lucky1 Files will also read Pac colors Files
Freezy will not

 

 

Freezy will never

1) for reason Freezy has made crystal clear on multiple occasions
2) Freezy cannot, because he believes in open source and Lucky1 does not.

3) Lucky1 would have a total aneurism 

[scutters]

Freezy will never

 

 

 

1) for reason Freezy has made crystal clear on multiple occasions
2) Freezy cannot, because he believes in open source and Lucky1 does not.

3) Lucky1 would have a total aneurism 

 

 

Seems like there may be hope of a semi amicable solution - https://vpuniverse.c...t&comment=70228

 

 

Back on topic, my findings for 64bit using https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide as a base guide

 

(for info i use pinballx, don't have DOF and don't really use pup packs (only table scripted pup packs))

 

 

Flex DMD

V1.8 doesn't work with VPX 64bit. V1.9 beta works with VPX 64bit but has text alignment issues

B2S Server

Changing the location of screenres.txt / B2SServer will likely break PBXRecorder (and maybe other legacy apps). Some users have also reported registering issues when moving B2S to another location.

Vpinmame 64bit

Issues using altsound = 2 if pinsound is not running

Other potential issues mentioned by toxie and weisshund

PROC Tables

I only tested with CCC, the table ran ok but hung on exit in VPX 64bit. Front ends could probably handle this by killing VPX but i tested from VPX editor only.

Reshade (if used)

Will only work with 32bit or 64bit VPX (i.e. not both, if installed in same location)

 

Everything else looked to work ok with 64bit pinmame and VPX including pinemhi leaderboard.

 

 

Because of the above for my 64bit install i left B2S and related files in the Visual Pinball\Tables folder, and did not update flexDMD from V1.8.

 

I will still use 32bit VPX as the default, only using VPX 64bit for the tables i need it (where textures could be lost in the table resulting in a white playfield) using the <alternateexe> tag in PinballX. At this time that's only two tables TFTC & BBB (neither of which use flexDMD so staying at V1.8 isn't a problem)

 

 

UPDATE 09/2023

FlexDMD V1.9 Text Alignment issues now fixed - https://github.com/v...exdmd/issues/36

Vpinmame x64 hang if altsound set to 2 and Pinsound not running now fixed - https://github.com/v...inmame/pull/154

Edited by scutters, 06 September 2023 - 01:14 PM.

[richintx]

I found out thatFreezy posted a full explanation on VPU…. https://vpuniverse.c...g-of-a-new-era/

[Mike DA Spike]

I found out thatFreezy posted a full explanation on VPU…. https://vpuniverse.c...g-of-a-new-era/

Isnt that the same thread as scutters refers to ?

[Tesla]

 

Seems like there may be hope of a semi amicable solution - https://vpuniverse.c...t&comment=70228

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

In the first part of that thread, Freezy posts a good recap of how colorizations with dmdext work. Also, what has been going on with the developers and content creators in this space. At least I now have a partial understanding. He certainly makes some good points.

 

Also explains Serum and why I have been hearing about it lately. 

[Mike DA Spike]

 

Freezy will never

 

 

 

1) for reason Freezy has made crystal clear on multiple occasions
2) Freezy cannot, because he believes in open source and Lucky1 does not.

3) Lucky1 would have a total aneurism 

 

 

Seems like there may be hope of a semi amicable solution - https://vpuniverse.c...t&comment=70228

 

 

Back on topic, my findings for 64bit using https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide as a base guide

 

(for info i use pinballx, don't have DOF and don't really use pup packs (only table scripted pup packs))

 

 

Flex DMD

V1.8 doesn't work with VPX 64bit. V1.9 beta works with VPX 64bit but has text alignment issues

B2S Server

Changing the location of screenres.txt / B2SServer will likely break PBXRecorder (and maybe other legacy apps). Some users have also reported registering issues when moving B2S to another location.

Vpinmame 64bit

Issues using altsound = 2 if pinsound is not running

Other potential issues mentioned by toxie and weisshund

PROC Tables

I only tested with CCC, the table ran ok but hung on exit in VPX 64bit. Front ends could probably handle this by killing VPX but i tested from VPX editor only.

Reshade (if used)

Will only work with 32bit or 64bit VPX (i.e. not both, if installed in same location)

 

Everything else looked to work ok with 64bit pinmame and VPX including pinemhi leaderboard.

 

 

Because of the above for my 64bit install i left B2S and related files in the Visual Pinball\Tables folder, and did not update flexDMD from V1.8.

 

I will still use 32bit VPX as the default, only using VPX 64bit for the tables i need it (where textures could be lost in the table resulting in a white playfield) using the <alternateexe> tag in PinballX. At this time that's only two tables TFTC & BBB (neither of which use flexDMD so staying at V1.8 isn't a problem)

 

 

I noticed today that Pinvol is working, but adjusting the sound for backglass, front and rear exciters, shows the bar and chang, but the actual sound is the same (with other words, nothing happening)

[Rajo Joey]

 

 

 

Yep… we’ve arrived… full 64 bit compatibility with Lucky’s dmd extensions instead of Freezy!

 

I have full ability to run pup games in either 32 or 64 bit versions of VPX 10.7.4

 

I Tested Scared Stiff, IMLOTB, TRON and Theater of Magic 

 

This did not fix my GOTG pup crashing issue however.  I believe we still need a 64 bit version of Pinupdisplay.exe to remedy the GOTG issue which Daphishbowl believes is a memory leak/cache  in pinup that can’t keep up with the calls from that pup.

 

So to summarize:

 

1). Follow these instructions:

 https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide

 

2) install Lucky1 64bit over Freezy:  

https://vpuniverse.c...c-file-support/

 

3) install Nailbuster Beta 64 bit pup drivers: 

https://nailbuster.c...ers_v1_beta.zip

 

THIS SHOULD ONLYBE ATTEMPTED BY ADVANCED USERS THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

 

If you wreck your setup… you’re on your own!!!  All you have to do is miss a step and you’ll be nonfunctional in some way.

 

If you’re a baller installer user… they’re working on a new installer so hold tight for that.

 

WE MADE IT… THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO MADE 64BIT POSSIBLE…. WOOHOO!

 

 

 

I'm curious - what is the benefit/need of using Lucky's DMD driver over Freezy's?   thanks

 

 

 

 

Yep… we’ve arrived… full 64 bit compatibility with Lucky’s dmd extensions instead of Freezy!

 

I have full ability to run pup games in either 32 or 64 bit versions of VPX 10.7.4

 

I Tested Scared Stiff, IMLOTB, TRON and Theater of Magic 

 

This did not fix my GOTG pup crashing issue however.  I believe we still need a 64 bit version of Pinupdisplay.exe to remedy the GOTG issue which Daphishbowl believes is a memory leak/cache  in pinup that can’t keep up with the calls from that pup.

 

So to summarize:

 

1). Follow these instructions:

 https://github.com/v...cab-Setup-Guide

 

2) install Lucky1 64bit over Freezy:  

https://vpuniverse.c...c-file-support/

 

3) install Nailbuster Beta 64 bit pup drivers: 

https://nailbuster.c...ers_v1_beta.zip

 

THIS SHOULD ONLYBE ATTEMPTED BY ADVANCED USERS THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

 

If you wreck your setup… you’re on your own!!!  All you have to do is miss a step and you’ll be nonfunctional in some way.

 

If you’re a baller installer user… they’re working on a new installer so hold tight for that.

 

WE MADE IT… THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO MADE 64BIT POSSIBLE…. WOOHOO!

 

 

 

I'm curious - what is the benefit/need of using Lucky's DMD driver over Freezy's?   thanks

 

 

 

As far as I understand... Freezy didn't update his release for almost 2 years,

 

https://github.com/f...ases/tag/v2.0.0

https://ci.appveyor....uny3l/artifacts
 

[drady]

So reading this too'ing and fro'ing that an all in one baller installer for 64bit is a waste of time moving forward - but then i read on nailbusters site that its being worked on/tested  - like what is the truth in all this rather than the complaining about lucky/freezy stuff?

[htamas]

Personally, I'm waiting with the switch to 64 bit until it is confirmed that everything works like it does with 32 bit, or a table comes along that I desperately want to play but it is not 32 bit compatible.

All tables run fine on my rig right now with 32 bit VPX, so I won't change the status quo as long as there are components that don't play nice with 64 bit.

[wiesshund]

Personally, I'm waiting with the switch to 64 bit until it is confirmed that everything works like it does with 32 bit, or a table comes along that I desperately want to play but it is not 32 bit compatible.

All tables run fine on my rig right now with 32 bit VPX, so I won't change the status quo as long as there are components that don't play nice with 64 bit.

 

When VPinMAME can to a9jit in the 64bit build, you could use it with everything.
Would you get an advantage?
Doubtful unless you had some kind of issue going on that was only affecting 32bit things.

 

the VPW BBB table uses same amount of RAM, regardless of which VPX flavor you run it in.

which is well under the 32bit limit

 

Runs at same FPS

VRAM use doesn't care about bit flavor.

 

load times were within 10ths of a second

 

A future VPX it may be useful for, but so also would a change of rendering API and some targeted multithreading and some other goodies.

 

Now if you find yourself opening 10 tables at the same time, in the same editor instance, then the 64bit build can be very useful.
I dont really find myself wanting to open that many simultaneously though.

[Smackx]

 

BTW…I still can’t play GOTG for more than 10 minutes until PUP crashes.  Hoping the extra 64bit memory space may solve that.

 

Thought I was the only one with the GOTG pup crash after 10 minutes.

[nagaidevil]

I will still use 32bit VPX as the default, only using VPX 64bit for the tables i need it (where textures could be lost in the table resulting in a white playfield) using the <alternateexe> tag in PinballX. At this time that's only two tables TFTC & BBB (neither of which use flexDMD so staying at V1.8 isn't a problem)

Which TFTC only works with VPX-64bit?

Edited by nagaidevil, 12 April 2023 - 01:43 AM.

[htamas]

Which TFTC only works with VPX-64bit?

 

Neither that I know of. The VPW versions of both TFTC and BBB (which are the most demanding ones) play just fine on my 32-bit setup with a 1080p playfield.

Edited by htamas, 12 April 2023 - 02:07 AM.

[scutters]

 

I will still use 32bit VPX as the default, only using VPX 64bit for the tables i need it (where textures could be lost in the table resulting in a white playfield) using the <alternateexe> tag in PinballX. At this time that's only two tables TFTC & BBB (neither of which use flexDMD so staying at V1.8 isn't a problem)

Which TFTC only works with VPX-64bit?

 

 

On my setup the VPW version always lost textures when saving after editing pov in 32bit. Might be something to do with my pov preferences, dunno - but it's not an issue with 64bit VPX.  I could probably just do pov & script edits and save in vpx 64bit, and then play in 32bit without a problem.

Edited by scutters, 12 April 2023 - 08:15 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

On my setup the VPW version always lost textures when saving after editing pov in 32bit. Might be something to do with my pov preferences, dunno - but it's not an issue with 64bit VPX.  I could probably just do pov & script edits and save in vpx 64bit, and then play in 32bit without a problem.

 

 

that is odd, to say the least, cant reproduce

[scutters]

 

 

 

 

On my setup the VPW version always lost textures when saving after editing pov in 32bit. Might be something to do with my pov preferences, dunno - but it's not an issue with 64bit VPX.  I could probably just do pov & script edits and save in vpx 64bit, and then play in 32bit without a problem.

 

 

that is odd, to say the least, cant reproduce

 

 

I agree, very odd, doesn't seem to affect everyone but i'm not alone. I've seen it on a few tables when saving the table file after adjustments the textures go missing and file size reduces but i can normally get the changes to stick on the 2nd or 3rd attempt without the corruption using a fresh copy. Not seen it happen with 64bit vpx (yet). Maybe it's a pov thing but maybe not. These are my cab settings if you want to try adjusting the table to similar and saving in vpx 32bit;

	<fullscreen>
		<inclination>5.400001</inclination>
		<fov>40.199982</fov>
		<layback>73.599869</layback>
		<rotation>270.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.888000</xscale>
		<yscale>1.072001</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>174.798477</xoffset>
		<yoffset>0.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-350.000000</zoffset>
	</fullscreen>

Edited by scutters, 13 April 2023 - 01:13 PM.