43 replies to this topic

[Gravy]

 

I love the fact that you are willing to give this a shot Toxie, my thinking is that there might be specific tables developed for this system rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing tables in which case the score narration might be easier? Is that what you envisage Acerbt?

 

 

Toxie has always tried to help those who are visually impaired play pinball.

Check here..

https://www.vpforums...632#entry494993

 

He is a great role model for this community.

 

He sure is...  I remember that thread as I made a suggestion that full width/height crosshairs could follow the ball to make it easier to tell where it was.

[Acerbt]

I like the fact that there are some people in this community who are willing to help disabled people play pinball games. The first experience of pinball I had was witha very simple toy machine that was battery powered and only had a few bumpers. Then I played the accessible variations of the game, but now that I understand how some of my favorite actual tables are completed, I've found that the accessible pinball games out there now aren't really that great. Blindfold Pinball for the iPhone and iPad get's close but that game like all the games from the Blindfold games series has odd things going for it, not to mention the prices the developer asks for for the simplest upgrades.

[Gravy]

I like the fact that there are some people in this community who are willing to help disabled people play pinball games. The first experience of pinball I had was witha very simple toy machine that was battery powered and only had a few bumpers. Then I played the accessible variations of the game, but now that I understand how some of my favorite actual tables are completed, I've found that the accessible pinball games out there now aren't really that great. Blindfold Pinball for the iPhone and iPad get's close but that game like all the games from the Blindfold games series has odd things going for it, not to mention the prices the developer asks for for the simplest upgrades.

I remember my uncle came out for a visit to Australia, from the UK in the late 70's-early 80's and he bought me a basic plastic pinball toy, it wasnt powered but was fun anyway. I think that was my earliest recollection of pinball although I never played much real pinball until much later in life as simply didnt have access or the coin.

Would it be too personal to ask about your blindness? Did it occur from birth or later? Do you have any degree of visual perception, shade/colours/shapes etc?

 

[toxie]

Just small update: This hasn't been forgotten, i just didn't get around to finish things up, only started looking into where/what could/should be done, but (of course ) only discovering some more problems with my ideas. But still think we could get something going.

[Acerbt]

I've been blind from birth. I have no visual perseption at all. This is very helpful because I have been able to learn how to handle it for this many years, unlike some people who need to relearn everything in life when they loos vision later on. As a result, I've learned how to ask for accessibility in many things, and love it a lot when people are willing to help out.

Edited by Acerbt, 19 February 2023 - 04:55 AM.

[toxie]

One more update: Still in experimentation phase and especially trying out how to 'fool' the physics engine into running at different speeds. More complicated than i thought. 

But also not impossible.

[rascal]

A long time ago I helped a young lady make a couple tables playable with just the "A" key which she had hooked up to a special controller that she hit with her elbow. She was an angel who was born with cerebral palsy. Her name was Yvette Yetter. We lost touch over the last few years and just now while looking her up to post something in this thread I found out she died in March of 22. Some of the old timers here may remember her, she went by the name Petunia. Yvette R. Yetter Obituary - News Journal (mansfieldnewsjournal.com)

 

Anyway, to get back on point here, a table can easily be slowed down just by changing the slope of the table. I would think some custom shaped triggers could be added to any table to make a sound when nearing an object and it could be separated right or left or forward and backward with existing sound fx built into vpx. Another thing that could be possible is ball audio tracking, so you can hear audible cues from the ball's x, y, and z positions, and even its x, y, and z velocity (speed). We already use these for ball rolling sounds and as mentioned even collisions on post and stuff could give audible cues. Only the developers working on the vpx program itself would be able to help make the editor more blind person accessible.

 

Another way of slowing the vpx program down that I know of is to download this cheat engine. Here is the link.

https://www.cheatengine.org/

 

Hope this helps. Right now, I think that you would be dependent on some authors of tables to mod tables to be blind person accessible. Sounds like you are very well equipped at doing things yourself, but shaping invisible triggers around areas of the playfield and scripting them may be something you would not be able to do.

[toxie]

Thanks for the hints! But ideally i would like to make the slowdown a bit more gameplay specific. So i hope that its best that e.g. when the ball is in the plunger or going around a loop or a ramp that the physics are at full speed, but the closer the ball gets to the flippers, the slower it gets (optionally accompanied by the sound hints, see above).

That way also all the tables would always work as intended (as it may(!) be that certain slopes do break gameplay if the table is a bit whacky), as the physic simulation is exactly the same, its just that time is 'slowed down'.

[Gravy]

Thanks for the hints! But ideally i would like to make the slowdown a bit more gameplay specific. So i hope that its best that e.g. when the ball is in the plunger or going around a loop or a ramp that the physics are at full speed, but the closer the ball gets to the flippers, the slower it gets (optionally accompanied by the sound hints, see above).

That way also all the tables would always work as intended (as it may(!) be that certain slopes do break gameplay if the table is a bit whacky), as the physic simulation is exactly the same, its just that time is 'slowed down'.

I'm seeing a "bullet time" version of pinball in my mind.

[wiesshund]

 

Thanks for the hints! But ideally i would like to make the slowdown a bit more gameplay specific. So i hope that its best that e.g. when the ball is in the plunger or going around a loop or a ramp that the physics are at full speed, but the closer the ball gets to the flippers, the slower it gets (optionally accompanied by the sound hints, see above).

That way also all the tables would always work as intended (as it may(!) be that certain slopes do break gameplay if the table is a bit whacky), as the physic simulation is exactly the same, its just that time is 'slowed down'.

I'm seeing a "bullet time" version of pinball in my mind.

 

 

JP's physics and careful table design sort of already allow for that.

heavy on the CAREFUL, purpose driven table design.

[Wizards_Hat]

A long time ago I helped a young lady make a couple tables playable with just the "A" key which she had hooked up to a special controller that she hit with her elbow. She was an angel who was born with cerebral palsy. Her name was Yvette Yetter. We lost touch over the last few years and just now while looking her up to post something in this thread I found out she died in March of 22. Some of the old timers here may remember her, she went by the name Petunia. Yvette R. Yetter Obituary - News Journal (mansfieldnewsjournal.com)

 

I'm sad to hear of Petunia's passing - she was a truly beautiful person. Just been looking at the tables that I modified for her & remembered that I made a Tic-Tac-Toe game for her too (https://www.vpforums...s&showfile=5395)

[Acerbt]

I was playing some tables yesterday, and found something very interesting. I wanted to turn off the VpinMame sound so I could get a sence of what the vpx table sound was doing when balls hit things and moved around, and I ended up finding that I was able to keep a ball in play on The Tales of the Arabian Nights table for a while with the rom sound turned off, probably because the sounds that the table objects make were the only things happening. I ended up locking both balls on that table and even starting the multiball mode. I don't know what my score was, but I think it may have been higher than what I usually would get with all the sound turned on. I did the same thing with Star trek The next Generation, and was able to actually tell when my ball took the ramps or did some other things on the table as I played, with the mame sound turned off. This doesn't mean the table itself is really blind accessible, but it does show that playing this kind of game as a blind person with the right set up and conditions is possible.

[Acerbt]

Is there any update on how the accessibility feature implementation is going? I ask because I haven't seen anything new here in a little while and hope that this is still being thought of and worked on.

[toxie]

Yes, i'm still on this on/off. But at the moment there is so much going on with PinMAME and VPX that i cannot focus 100% on it. But i'm on it still. 

[Acerbt]

I recently took a look at the company page for the makers of the esp pinball games, and it looks like they are back. They have plans to completely revamp all of their older audio game titles including the pinball ones, so some new ideas may come from that if and when it happens.

Edited by Acerbt, 23 May 2023 - 11:50 PM.

[toxie]

..and sorry, but your feature request(s) still hasn't been forgotten  

I have at least a small patch ready for 10.8 that allows to widen the stereo effect. The slowdown ball movement and audio queues is still in flux though.

 

Simply too much going on at the moment on all fronts..  :/

[Schlabber34]

Small idea here. Have you guys followed the parlympic biathlon for blind people? When shooting, the laser rifle makes a sound that gets higher the closer you are pointing to the center of the target. If you pull the trigger at the highest possible sound you hit the target! How about placing an invisible point between the flippers. The closer the ball is to this point, the higher the sound. You could also use left / right balance to tell the player whether the ball is to the left of the point or to the right! You could start that sound when the ball is at the lower third or half of the table.

 

Don't know if that makes sense! But it sounds like it's doable, toxie!?

[toxie]

Yup. One idea was to have something like that, but related to the flipper "tips", and separated to left and right channel.

And combined with slowing down gameplay, the closer the ball gets to a flipper.

Maybe also different sounds, depending if the ball comes down a lane (=controlled), or "from the playfield" (=chaotic).

[Acerbt]

is the patch available to download? I'd like totest that.

[Acerbt]

Hello,

 

I know it's been a while, but I am wondering if this is still being worked on. A friend from the blind community introduced me to a few more classic pinball tables that I hadn't played before, so I have played VP within the last few months and would like to know what the status is with the accessibility features.