63 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

And also:  the latest releases by VPW and others have some clever coding titled "Sling Corrections", where points are manually placed at the end of slings and the position is calculated in the script, adjusting power and angle to be more accurate to a real machine, exactly as you described.  This could theoretically be worked into VP proper (using the control points and the actual programming of the slingshots) but hasn't...yet.  A lot of other things have made it into VPX, including a ton of great gameplay improvements and actual bugs.  Just because your pet peeve didn't get worked on earlier isn't a reason to be a dick.  Chill the F out.

 

 

just thought i would mention

you can build slings in vpx that will do the above as well

(meaning build with just the normal vpx stuff)

 

Might work in VP 9 also? but i never tried

[Wylte]

 

And also:  the latest releases by VPW and others have some clever coding titled "Sling Corrections", where points are manually placed at the end of slings and the position is calculated in the script, adjusting power and angle to be more accurate to a real machine, exactly as you described.  This could theoretically be worked into VP proper (using the control points and the actual programming of the slingshots) but hasn't...yet.  A lot of other things have made it into VPX, including a ton of great gameplay improvements and actual bugs.  Just because your pet peeve didn't get worked on earlier isn't a reason to be a dick.  Chill the F out.

 

 

just thought i would mention

you can build slings in vpx that will do the above as well

(meaning build with just the normal vpx stuff)

 

Might work in VP 9 also? but i never tried

 

Absolutely, and one probably could make it work in VP9!  I was actually testing various ways of doing it to figure out the "best" way (to add to our Example Table), when apophis came up with the points/script method.  It's just smoother and more comprehensive than discrete VP objects

[charley]

In a real pinball the slingshots are NOT your friends Take a look at this video at about 40 seconds

 

Well sure, it does happen sometimes if the ball hits the sling at the right angle the ball will get shot down the side drain. 

There are traps all over table.

There's a Freddie Kruger NM on Elm St and Elvira not to far.

Same thing. Traps everywhere that send the ball down the drains.

I would aim for the flashing targets in the center, missed the target, bounced of the rubber bumpers shooting the ball down the center drain. 
Then the ball might head down a side drain at high speed, bounce off the rubber bumpers, did a slow looping bounce into the center of the table then did the center drain.

 

Anyway JP, you create tables.  What is the answer to changing the kick direction of the upper and lower slingshots.

I don't recall anything in the table script for upper and lower slingshots direction.

Where is it?

Edited by charley, 11 October 2022 - 01:13 AM.

[wiesshund]

you dont do it in the script (well you can like vpw does but you dont have to)

 

you make the slingshot in more than one section

[bigus1]

I've done mods of every machine I've owned - some for decades - and I reckon the physics, including the slings, is just about spot-on. As your contact point moves away from the centre point of the sling, the deflection in the departure angle is more pronounced and lessens again toward the ends. Very realistic. It's what draws people to VP. Slings throwing balls at the outlanes are doing what they're designed to do, aren't they?  I feel that the nudge is the most difficult part to emulate because, in reality, it comes down to the strength of the player as to how much they can man-handle the machine.  I can gently finesse the thing or shake shit out of it as required. For me, that makes real machines much easier to play than their virtual counterparts. Also, I wouldn't say that playing pinball is hard - well, not for me anyway. Some machines are crap, though, and are purely designed to get your money. Ironically, people avoid them and feed the fun machines instead.

[charley]

you dont do it in the script (well you can like vpw does but you dont have to)

 

you make the slingshot in more than one section

i suspected it was not in the script.  it's got to be in the C++ program. 

>>>you dont do it in the script (well you can like vpw does but you dont have to)

you make the slingshot in more than one section.<<<  ok, how is it done in the script?

do i add lines or tweak the script and how?  maybe not the newer tables. maybe the older vp9.

Other than the slingshots i was ok with the program. 

 

Could the administrators respond on how to make the changes?

What u say JP?

Edited by charley, 11 October 2022 - 04:48 AM.

[wiesshund]

? what ?

 

no it doesnt need to be in c++ because it is already in vpx

 

vp9 has not changed since vp 9.9.5

and i dont think it has any slingshot issues, since i have a number of vp9 tables

[charley]

? what ?

 

no it doesnt need to be in c++ because it is already in vpx

 

vp9 has not changed since vp 9.9.5

and i dont think it has any slingshot issues, since i have a number of vp9 tables

 

what is already in vpx?  the physics corrections or the adjustment settings for the slings?

[JLouLoulou]

 

 

check this video out.  cosmic princess does not have lower slings but does have slings on the sides.

watch how the ball gets kicked up when contact above the electro magnetic kicker then the opposite

direction contact below the electro kicker.

See, that's not what you said in your first post, though.  "Slingshots still launch the ball too flat" or "slingshots only add velocity normal to their surface" would be more accurate.  That is in fact a limitation of VP, since slings are created from a wall and do not read "where" on that wall the ball has collided.

We all love pinball, we all play real machines when we can, we all want to see VP improve, and many of us own real machines to compare to.  Saying the devs don't listen to people who play real pinball is patently ridiculous.

 

And also:  the latest releases by VPW and others have some clever coding titled "Sling Corrections", where points are manually placed at the end of slings and the position is calculated in the script, adjusting power and angle to be more accurate to a real machine, exactly as you described.  This could theoretically be worked into VP proper (using the control points and the actual programming of the slingshots) but hasn't...yet.  A lot of other things have made it into VPX, including a ton of great gameplay improvements and actual bug(fix)s.  Just because your pet peeve didn't get worked on earlier isn't a reason to be a dick.  Chill the F out.

 

Bonus retorts:

1. did the forum fix the known bugs in the source code C++ program to fix the lower kickers at the flippers kicking the ball into the side drains.?

    Not the job of the forum, not a bug, but they have improved (even without the added Sling Corrections)

2. there were some other known bugs.  it's been a long time.  i don't remember exactly what they were.

i think there were some problems with ramps and completion of ramps and alleys.

did they get fixed?

    Probably, read the changelog

3. if there is a fix and how do i update the program with the fix?

   Download the latest VPX, follow install instructions

....post the links please in the reply

   Just look around; "Getting Started" is a good place to start

...

1. you made no attempt to fix the bugs that have been with the program from the beginning

    False

2. too much work to operate and maintain. 

    Not really, and have you had a real pinball machine?

3. not user friendly

    More user friendly than a lot of editing software I've used

 

 

About Slingshot, i think VPW should test to make slingshot with Diverter/Flipper... I elaborating FizX For FP, where slingshot are very very very.... very catastrophic... So i made a trick with Diverter/flipper, wich if you look at the movement of each point along the Diverter/Flipper, they are near the movement of each point of a Real Slingshot Rubber. I haven't the time yet to test it on VPX, but result is very convincing and easy to tune.

 

I put two invisible Diverter/Flipper with same size for base and tip. The Native Slingshot Rubber is only for visual in game

Attached Files

•  2022_10_11_08_10_48_Future_Pinball_RubberTest1_C_vPinball_FuturePinball_Tables_FizX_Template.jpg   181.15KB   1 downloads

Edited by JLouLoulou, 11 October 2022 - 06:14 AM.

[kiwi]

 

 

 

check this video out.  cosmic princess does not have lower slings but does have slings on the sides.

watch how the ball gets kicked up when contact above the electro magnetic kicker then the opposite

direction contact below the electro kicker.

See, that's not what you said in your first post, though.  "Slingshots still launch the ball too flat" or "slingshots only add velocity normal to their surface" would be more accurate.  That is in fact a limitation of VP, since slings are created from a wall and do not read "where" on that wall the ball has collided.

We all love pinball, we all play real machines when we can, we all want to see VP improve, and many of us own real machines to compare to.  Saying the devs don't listen to people who play real pinball is patently ridiculous.

 

And also:  the latest releases by VPW and others have some clever coding titled "Sling Corrections", where points are manually placed at the end of slings and the position is calculated in the script, adjusting power and angle to be more accurate to a real machine, exactly as you described.  This could theoretically be worked into VP proper (using the control points and the actual programming of the slingshots) but hasn't...yet.  A lot of other things have made it into VPX, including a ton of great gameplay improvements and actual bug(fix)s.  Just because your pet peeve didn't get worked on earlier isn't a reason to be a dick.  Chill the F out.

 

Bonus retorts:

1. did the forum fix the known bugs in the source code C++ program to fix the lower kickers at the flippers kicking the ball into the side drains.?

    Not the job of the forum, not a bug, but they have improved (even without the added Sling Corrections)

2. there were some other known bugs.  it's been a long time.  i don't remember exactly what they were.

i think there were some problems with ramps and completion of ramps and alleys.

did they get fixed?

    Probably, read the changelog

3. if there is a fix and how do i update the program with the fix?

   Download the latest VPX, follow install instructions

....post the links please in the reply

   Just look around; "Getting Started" is a good place to start

...

1. you made no attempt to fix the bugs that have been with the program from the beginning

    False

2. too much work to operate and maintain. 

    Not really, and have you had a real pinball machine?

3. not user friendly

    More user friendly than a lot of editing software I've used

 

 

About Slingshot, i think VPW should test to make slingshot with Diverter/Flipper... I elaborating FizX For FP, where slingshot are very very very.... very catastrophic... So i made a trick with Diverter/flipper, wich if you look at the movement of each point along the Diverter/Flipper, they are near the movement of each point of a Real Slingshot Rubber. I haven't the time yet to test it on VPX, but result is very convincing and easy to tune.

 

I put two invisible Diverter/Flipper with same size for base and tip. The Native Slingshot Rubber is only for visual in game

 

I have this method in Baywatch and Wipe Out, by default the wall is set as a slingshot, in the initial lines of the scripts there is the option to switch to slings made with flippers.

[bigus1]

Scatter angle is a standard setting that will directly change the angle. I made a slingshot/flipper test rig to play with the physics and scatter can change the direction dramatically, but just a few degrees may be enough to avoid disaster.

[jpsalas]

I also did some tests using flippers for slingshots, and I found out that they gave too weird angles, and that it was better to keep using a normal slingshot with some random added (5). Anyway a pinball machine is unpredictable, so a little random makes it closer to a real one  

 

Well, is the slingshots were your big problem, then I guess they will be still your problem, as they haven't changed much, but the added scatter angle makes them not so linear and a bit more random, and more unpredictable.

[wiesshund]

I also did some tests using flippers for slingshots, and I found out that they gave too weird angles, and that it was better to keep using a normal slingshot with some random added (5). Anyway a pinball machine is unpredictable, so a little random makes it closer to a real one

 

Well, is the slingshots were your big problem, then I guess they will be still your problem, as they haven't changed much, but the added scatter angle makes them not so linear and a bit more random, and more unpredictable.

 

flippers also have the same rubber physics the entire length, even if the flipper is 4 feet long

slingshot doesnt, at the pegs it is just like a rubber peg, in the center, well it's kind of instant takeoff, and in between, it's sort of like a rubber band of whatever the length is

minus the fact that it will eventually kick if you can deflect the rubber far enough

 

jp do the slingshot like you do your long rubbers, kind of

rubber band is just for looks, and animation if one prefers

then in simple form, one sling section in the actuator area at full power

then at either end a weaker sling with more deflection, and angled a bit and also more force needed to trigger it.

[JLouLoulou]

I also did some tests using flippers for slingshots, and I found out that they gave too weird angles, and that it was better to keep using a normal slingshot with some random added (5). Anyway a pinball machine is unpredictable, so a little random makes it closer to a real one
 
Well, is the slingshots were your big problem, then I guess they will be still your problem, as they haven't changed much, but the added scatter angle makes them not so linear and a bit more random, and more unpredictable.

What kind of weird trajectory? did you have a template table for me with this trick?
 
Exaclty, i find that VPX slingshot are too predictable even with scatter. There is not enough "kick to drain" from slinghshot IMO... Particulary when ball come to slingshot with a narrow angle from top of PF.
 
Edit: But i admit i did not really play VPX since 1 year    ... Too buzy with life and FizX

Edited by JLouLoulou, 11 October 2022 - 05:34 PM.

[charley]

JP #32......>>>>>I also did some tests using flippers for slingshots, and I found out that they gave too weird angles, and that it was better to keep using a normal slingshot with some random added (5). Anyway a pinball machine is unpredictable, so a little random makes it closer to a real one

 

Well, is the slingshots were your big problem, then I guess they will be still your problem, as they haven't changed much, but the added scatter angle makes them not so linear and a bit more random, and more unpredictable<<<<<

i never said the slingshots were a problem.  I asked the forum to fix the direction of the kick to get a more true play of the game in the early phases of VP9 back in 2009-2012.  It cant be done in the script.  That was only thing i complained about at that time.

Edited by charley, 11 October 2022 - 03:40 PM.

[charley]

 

 

 

check this video out.  cosmic princess does not have lower slings but does have slings on the sides.

watch how the ball gets kicked up when contact above the electro magnetic kicker then the opposite

direction contact below the electro kicker.

See, that's not what you said in your first post, though.  "Slingshots still launch the ball too flat" or "slingshots only add velocity normal to their surface" would be more accurate.  That is in fact a limitation of VP, since slings are created from a wall and do not read "where" on that wall the ball has collided.

We all love pinball, we all play real machines when we can, we all want to see VP improve, and many of us own real machines to compare to.  Saying the devs don't listen to people who play real pinball is patently ridiculous.

 

And also:  the latest releases by VPW and others have some clever coding titled "Sling Corrections", where points are manually placed at the end of slings and the position is calculated in the script, adjusting power and angle to be more accurate to a real machine, exactly as you described.  This could theoretically be worked into VP proper (using the control points and the actual programming of the slingshots) but hasn't...yet.  A lot of other things have made it into VPX, including a ton of great gameplay improvements and actual bug(fix)s.  Just because your pet peeve didn't get worked on earlier isn't a reason to be a dick.  Chill the F out.

 

Bonus retorts:

1. did the forum fix the known bugs in the source code C++ program to fix the lower kickers at the flippers kicking the ball into the side drains.?

    Not the job of the forum, not a bug, but they have improved (even without the added Sling Corrections)

2. there were some other known bugs.  it's been a long time.  i don't remember exactly what they were.

i think there were some problems with ramps and completion of ramps and alleys.

did they get fixed?

    Probably, read the changelog

3. if there is a fix and how do i update the program with the fix?

   Download the latest VPX, follow install instructions

....post the links please in the reply

   Just look around; "Getting Started" is a good place to start

...

1. you made no attempt to fix the bugs that have been with the program from the beginning

    False

2. too much work to operate and maintain. 

    Not really, and have you had a real pinball machine?

3. not user friendly

    More user friendly than a lot of editing software I've used

 

 

About Slingshot, i think VPW should test to make slingshot with Diverter/Flipper... I elaborating FizX For FP, where slingshot are very very very.... very catastrophic... So i made a trick with Diverter/flipper, wich if you look at the movement of each point along the Diverter/Flipper, they are near the movement of each point of a Real Slingshot Rubber. I haven't the time yet to test it on VPX, but result is very convincing and easy to tune.

 

I put two invisible Diverter/Flipper with same size for base and tip. The Native Slingshot Rubber is only for visual in game
 

 

Edited by charley, 11 October 2022 - 05:14 PM.

[charley]

I also did some tests using flippers for slingshots, and I found out that they gave too weird angles, and that it was better to keep using a normal slingshot with some random added (5). Anyway a pinball machine is unpredictable, so a little random makes it closer to a real one

 

Well, is the slingshots were your big problem, then I guess they will be still your problem, as they haven't changed much, but the added scatter angle makes them not so linear and a bit more random, and more unpredictable.

JP, can you tell me where to find the changes for the slingshots on the table.  where is it?   

you dont do it in the script (well you can like vpw does but you dont have to)

 

you make the slingshot in more than one section

and what about you wiesshand.  

what is in the vpx and how do i tweak the script for the slings like i want.

Edited by charley, 11 October 2022 - 07:09 PM.

[wiesshund]

i never said the slingshots were a problem.  I asked the forum to fix the direction of the kick to get a more true play of the game in the early phases of VP9 back in 2009-2012.  It cant be done in the script.  That was only thing i complained about at that time.

 

 

 

 

VP9 is a dead horse, out to pasture for it's retirement
no one is fixing anything in VP9, it ceased being updated in 2017 (which is many updates since 2012 even)

 

So basically, you are going on and on about...

 

...nothing

 

and even VP9 can do this

 

or this

 

Edited by wiesshund, 11 October 2022 - 07:16 PM.

[charley]

 

i never said the slingshots were a problem.  I asked the forum to fix the direction of the kick to get a more true play of the game in the early phases of VP9 back in 2009-2012.  It cant be done in the script.  That was only thing i complained about at that time.

 

 

 

 

VP9 is a dead horse, out to pasture for it's retirement
no one is fixing anything in VP9, it ceased being updated in 2017 (which is many updates since 2012 even)

 

So basically, you are going on and on about...

 

...nothing

 

and even VP9 can do this

 

or this

 

im

 

ok, vp9 is dead. soo, maybe i want to make my own personel tweaks in old VP9 and the new programs for the slings and how the slings kick the ball. There were alot of things i could change. The sling kick was one of the things i could not change. 

So how will it work to make changes to my old VP9 and the new programs for the slingshot kick direction if i want to change it a little?

 

JP,  we go back a long time. I gave a lot good input back in 09 because of my experience with real PB. It's payback time. Could you step up please and give me your opinion on how to make changes to the slingshot direction in my old VP9 and the new stuff if i want to make some changes.  At that time in VP9 i could change the width, elasticity and strength of the slingshot strength but not the direction of the kicker.  

Very interesting with all the progess in here.

Edited by charley, 12 October 2022 - 12:55 AM.

[robertms]

 

..how to make changes to the slingshot direction in my old VP9..