458 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

i did not notice an fps hit but i did not install or use any other shaders than the depth3d
and my laptop gets low fps anyways.

 

I will have to try it on my desktop PC, but that probably wont be until maybe saturday, unless i have to work that day too, in which case
im not sure when LOL

[BrandonLaw]

A:  I'm watching this as I'm VERY interested.

 

B:  We need to buy Wiesshund a new PC.  That laptop is the real MVP here.  Talk about a workhorse.

[wiesshund]

A:  I'm watching this as I'm VERY interested.

 

B:  We need to buy Wiesshund a new PC.  That laptop is the real MVP here.  Talk about a workhorse.

I have a real PC

just no time to use it

 

laptop i can stick in the corner of the desk, and it's there while working
my desktop is about 30" tall, weighs about 40 pounds, and does not sit nicely in the corner of the desk.
It is also dismantled when i am working, as i need the monitors and keyboards etc

[Gravy]

I did a little experiment to see how efficient the Reshade shader is compared to the inbuilt 3d function of VPX 10.6.

For the test I used interlaced 3D as both VPX supports this natively and Depth3D for Reshade also has this 3D mode.

What I found was that VPX's native implementation is considerably faster than Depth3D.

I tried with Space Shuttle table with framerate unlocked (vsync off).

Native VPX 3D interlaced mode: approx 75fps.
Depth3D interlaced mode with no other reshade effects running): approx 50fps.

Keep in mind this is on a very old laptop running at 1080p with most of the graphics details turned down and the FPS figures are only rough. But it gives an idea that Depth3D is not as efficient... however it seems to be all we have at the moment for running Anaglyph 3D and would likely not be a big issue for higher end systems.

It would be awesome if Anaglyph 3D modes could be implemented natively in VPX 10.7 or later versions going forward, maybe VPE as well.

 

Edited by Gravy, 10 November 2021 - 01:44 AM.

[wiesshund]

Which native did you use on VPX and what kind of glasses to view?

[Gravy]

Which native did you use on VPX and what kind of glasses to view?

 

"Native VPX 3D interlaced mode: approx 75fps.

Depth3D interlaced mode with no other reshade effects running): approx 50fps."

I used interlaced mode on both (that means every other line presents left and right eye image,  usually the method used on passive polarised 3D tvs such as LG screens).

I didnt test it with glasses as there was no need, just wanted to see the FPS difference between the two identical rendering methods. I could in theory hook it up to my 3D TV in living room but havent done so yet, it doesnt support interlaced I dont think but I could run side by side or top/bottom 3D and it would convert it to 3D for me (active glasses). That's if my glasses still work as they have a habit of failing if the battery hasnt been charged in a while.

Edited by Gravy, 10 November 2021 - 04:03 AM.

[Gravy]

 

Not sure why you would want anaglyph out of the vr headset? it is already doing a different form of stereo 3d

stereo 3d over stereo 3d probably wont work well

 

In regards to this, some people are playing regular 2D games in 3D on their VR headsets by using SuperDepth3D to convert the game to 3D, then sending that videostream to the Bigscreen app in their headset and it then converts the side by side images to 3D on a cinema screen inside the headset. So like sitting in a 3D theatre playing the game on the big screen. Bigscreen supports side by side or over/under 3D streams, probably need to use virtual desktop or something to send the stream to the headset.

Edited by Gravy, 10 November 2021 - 04:24 AM.

[vogliadicane]

Wow, that's pretty cool.

 

Around 15 years ago I was into stereo photography with different techniques, so I have some anaglyph glasses. Also tought about, how to use in VPX, but never ever expected something great and simple to use like Re-Shade exists. So I made a short trial yesterday. And yes, that is really working. Thanks @Gravy for the detailed explanation, how to set it up; was a breeze.

 

I like most the result with amber/blue, although there are faint ghost images in the blue channel. Maybe that can be corrected by settings in Re-Shade.

 

I rotated Windows, but I'd really keep my landscape mode, so I would definitely appreciate, if the developer would implement rotation in Re-Shade. Did you already contact the author?

 

Anyways, that's a good point to start with.

 

Edit: Just saw your letter to the developer

Edited by vogliadicane, 10 November 2021 - 03:02 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

Which native did you use on VPX and what kind of glasses to view?

 

"Native VPX 3D interlaced mode: approx 75fps.

Depth3D interlaced mode with no other reshade effects running): approx 50fps."

I used interlaced mode on both (that means every other line presents left and right eye image,  usually the method used on passive polarised 3D tvs such as LG screens).

I didnt test it with glasses as there was no need, just wanted to see the FPS difference between the two identical rendering methods. I could in theory hook it up to my 3D TV in living room but havent done so yet, it doesnt support interlaced I dont think but I could run side by side or top/bottom 3D and it would convert it to 3D for me (active glasses). That's if my glasses still work as they have a habit of failing if the battery hasnt been charged in a while.

 

 

Question

If turning on interlaced results in exactly what looks like an interlaced image with 2 different frames in it
does that mean the display is displaying it?
And if so, does that mean some kind of non active glasses would work?

 

On my laptop anyways, when i put it into interlaced 3d, i got a definitely interlaced image
not sure if that will happen on my desktop or not.

active glasses i doubt i could use, no way to sync them to the PC.

 

 

Wow, that's pretty cool.

 

Around 15 years ago I was into stereo photography with different techniques, so I have some anaglyph glasses. Also tought about, how to use in VPX, but never ever expected something great and simple to use like Re-Shade exists. So I made a short trial yesterday. And yes, that is really working. Thanks @Gravy for the detailed explanation, how to set it up; was a breeze.

 

I like most the result with amber/blue, although there are faint ghost images in the blue channel. Maybe that can be corrected by settings in Re-Shade.

 

I rotated Windows, but I'd really keep my landscape mode, so I would definitely appreciate, if the developer would implement rotation in Re-Shade. Did you already contact the author?

 

Anyways, that's a good point to start with.

 

Edit: Just saw your letter to the developer

 

AMber/Cyan is supposed to maintain the best color retention
But do you know where you can find non paper amber/cyan glasses?

 

I can only find them from color3D and only in paper.

 

On the rotating windows part, for most video cards, intel, nvidia, AMD, rotating the OS and flipping it back again, is just a hotkey combo
so for me anyways, it was no big deal to rotate and then go back, though if i had a cab the OS would be rotated, cause i am not standing beside the cab
just to read stuff or manipulate windows, and it hurts my neck to rank my head sideways all the time LOL

[Gravy]

 

 

Wiesshund, Interlaced will show the image on any screen however it will only work in 3D if the screen has an interlaced polarising filter which is how the passive 3D screens work (only a certified 3D screen would have this filter). The polarising filter is like a comb filter that has every other line polarised in either clockwise or anticlockwise direction. Some crappier active 3D screens had vertical/horizontal polarisation but this causes issues when you tilt your head, with circular polarised you can tilt your head to a degree although you would still need to adjust the separation if you decided to use in portrait orientation I think.

Scroll back for my link to the plastic blue/amber glasses at aliexpress. But here it is again in case you missed it https://www.aliexpre...2840546771.html



Regarding rotating windows, that's the easy part, it's the changes to the POV settings for each table that would be time consuming.

Wow, that's pretty cool.

 

Around 15 years ago I was into stereo photography with different techniques, so I have some anaglyph glasses. Also tought about, how to use in VPX, but never ever expected something great and simple to use like Re-Shade exists. So I made a short trial yesterday. And yes, that is really working. Thanks @Gravy for the detailed explanation, how to set it up; was a breeze.

 

I like most the result with amber/blue, although there are faint ghost images in the blue channel. Maybe that can be corrected by settings in Re-Shade.

 

I rotated Windows, but I'd really keep my landscape mode, so I would definitely appreciate, if the developer would implement rotation in Re-Shade. Did you already contact the author?

 

Anyways, that's a good point to start with.

 

Edit: Just saw your letter to the developer

The ghosting is likely just due to colour calibration maybe? Perhaps would be affected by how warm or cool your monitor is set to and it's other colour settings. It may also be affected if you have any other colour related shaders running in reshade? Best to just experiment I guess.

I assume you actually have the correct blue/amber glasses and not trying the blue/amber with blue/red glasses or something?

Have you got a pair or green/magenta glasses as well for testing? How did that go?

Edited by Gravy, 10 November 2021 - 09:37 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

however it will only work in 3D if the screen has an interlaced polarising filter 

 

Well FARTKNOCKERS!!!!!!!

dang it

 

 

 

Regarding rotating windows, that's the easy part, it's the changes to the POV settings for each table that would be time consuming

 

I was going to say that part is easy but

1) i have no POV's in table, all external POV files, which are plain text
2) i have programming tools, i can grep a bunch of files and have it search and replace <rotation>270.000000</rotation> with <rotation>0.000000</rotation>

[Gravy]

 

 

 

however it will only work in 3D if the screen has an interlaced polarising filter 

 

Well FARTKNOCKERS!!!!!!!

dang it

 

 

 

Regarding rotating windows, that's the easy part, it's the changes to the POV settings for each table that would be time consuming

 

I was going to say that part is easy but

1) i have no POV's in table, all external POV files, which are plain text
2) i have programming tools, i can grep a bunch of files and have it search and replace <rotation>270.000000</rotation> with <rotation>0.000000</rotation>

 

That would be a time saver, but it's not just rotation that that needs to change though. In my testing the table also ends up being very narrow when the rotation is set to 0 when running in windows portrait mode and you need to change POV to accommodate that. It's possible that this might also just be a figure that can be replicated across the POV files uniformly but I'm not sure if the width needs adjusting more on some tables than others.

[vogliadicane]

Rotating Windows on the fly is definitely not an option for me, because everything is messed up after that e.g. the screenres values don't fit anymore, table videos rotated and some other stuff, I optimized for the landscape view.

 

I assume you actually have the correct blue/amber glasses and not trying the blue/amber with blue/red glasses or something?

 

Yes blue/amber glasses

 

I only have those and cyan/red, so atm I cannot test green magenta, yet.

 

Wiesshund: no, also in Germany/Europe I only find paper glasses for amber/blue

[wiesshund]

Rotating Windows on the fly is definitely not an option for me, because everything is messed up after that e.g. the screenres values don't fit anymore, table videos rotated and some other stuff, I optimized for the landscape view.

 

I assume you actually have the correct blue/amber glasses and not trying the blue/amber with blue/red glasses or something?

 

Yes blue/amber glasses

 

I only have those and cyan/red, so atm I cannot test green magenta, yet.

 

Wiesshund: no, also in Germany/Europe I only find paper glasses for amber/blue

 Ah see i do not have PUP
but yes, on my desktop i have two screenres.txt files.

If i am going to have the monitor vertical for a while, i throw in the other one

If i had a cab though, the OS would stay vertical, and there would be no switching needed
Then i could do everything from the lockbar, even make tables
jut set a keyboard up there and a small mouse pad.

It is definitely easier designing when rotated

[dan_shane]

It would be awesome if Anaglyph 3D modes could be implemented natively in VPX 10.7 or later versions going forward, maybe VPE as well.

 

 

I would applaud such an effort in either simulator.  3D has been a hobby of mine since childhood, and I like to occasionally use the anaglyph method in BAM on tables that have elevated playfields like TWILIGHT ZONE and THE SHADOW.  There's a bit of flipper and ball movement lag using 3D on my ALP that distracts, so my 3D play sessions are usually short.  If VPX or VPE 3D performance proved better than FP I would imagine that the B&W modded tables would look really spiffy.

 

I use standard red/green and the ColorCode 3D modes in BAM dpending on the table's color scheme. ColorCode can give more realistic color, but it's substantially darker than red/green.

[vogliadicane]

 

Rotating Windows on the fly is definitely not an option for me, because everything is messed up after that e.g. the screenres values don't fit anymore, table videos rotated and some other stuff, I optimized for the landscape view.

 

I assume you actually have the correct blue/amber glasses and not trying the blue/amber with blue/red glasses or something?

 

Yes blue/amber glasses

 

I only have those and cyan/red, so atm I cannot test green magenta, yet.

 

Wiesshund: no, also in Germany/Europe I only find paper glasses for amber/blue

It is definitely easier designing when rotated

 

All just a question of getting used to
Well I hear from other people that vertical Windows leads to problems here and there, because most things are now adapted to the majority using Windows horizontally. And in my History of my cab EVERYTHING is optimized for that and I really don't want to change it all.

 

If the developer would add rotation it would definitely be the more generic solution. So I hope, Gravy suceeds in convincing him

Edited by vogliadicane, 11 November 2021 - 02:17 PM.

[vogliadicane]

I also commented for rotation in the developer's thread.

 

https://reshade.me/f...tart=1600#42043

 

Maybe others can do, too. Would really be helpful for most of us.

[Gravy]

I also commented for rotation in the developer's thread.

 

https://reshade.me/f...tart=1600#42043

 

Maybe others can do, too. Would really be helpful for most of us.

Thanks for that, doesn't appear like the developer has seen the posts at this stage (or not interested), I may try another path to contact them.

By the way, did you try adjusting your monitor or reshade colouring shaders to see if you could minimize the ghosting effect you mentioned?

I also mentioned anaglyph 3d on the VPE thread at https://vpuniverse.c...edition/page/6/ but Freezy is likely more interested in VR implementation which is fair enough, I'm sure he has a massive amount of work on his plate with VPE as it is. He did suggest a method to be able to add it in to VPE natively though if anyone has the skills.

Edited by Gravy, 14 November 2021 - 12:06 AM.

[wiesshund]

Nice thing about Anaglyph is
It is totally passive

Requires no special monitor or hardware etc
Would work on anyone's PC or cabinet

Can easily be used in multiplayer, heck you can get a dozen pairs of glasses cheap.

And you can easily turn it on or off at will.

Not sure how hard it would be for @Toxie or @Fuzzel to implement in VPX

 

It almost seems like you could repurpose at least part of one of the inbuilt 3rd options VPX has

Like if you flipped the interlaced 3d sideways?

Might be a starting point.

[Gravy]

Nice thing about Anaglyph is
It is totally passive

Requires no special monitor or hardware etc
Would work on anyone's PC or cabinet

Can easily be used in multiplayer, heck you can get a dozen pairs of glasses cheap.

And you can easily turn it on or off at will.

Not sure how hard it would be for @Toxie or @Fuzzel to implement in VPX

 

It almost seems like you could repurpose at least part of one of the inbuilt 3rd options VPX has

Like if you flipped the interlaced 3d sideways?

Might be a starting point.

Yeah I think the existing 3D settings were likely implemented in VPX or even earlier versions due to the influx of 3D TVs at the time and anaglyph was the poorer cousin and hence left out in the cold (I cant remember when the feature came about as I had ten years hiatus from VP). Now that 3D TVs are a rarity perhaps its worth Toxie or Fuzzel revisiting the anaglyph feature?

The existing 3D modes in VPX can be configured to "Use Y Axis" for when you are in rotated cabinet mode. But yes I would guess that a lot of the work to get anaglyph 3D working would be lessened by use of the existing techniques. Anyone here regularly meet up with Toxie or Fuzzel for a Friday night beer and keen to have a word in their ear?