111 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

 but I don't really get wanting to stop torrents

 

Torrents are like someone taking an art gallery
and yanking all the paintings out of the frames and pulling off the plaques with the artist info
and throwing all the paintings into a cardboard box, including unfinished early drafts of the painting
and just sending you a box full of unknown crap.

 

The artist does not even know if you saw and enjoyed the painting, you may not even know who the artist is
and you may well have an unfinished poor example of their work, which would be unfair to judge them by.

 

I saw a table i did in a package
It's a damned v 0.99 version of it that barely works and does not work correctly
So someplace, someone thinks i am a retard, for the wrong reasons (cause there are plenty of right ones)
And they probably dont even know where to find me to tell me.

 

If they got it from the actual upload, they wouldnt get a semi functional test version
AND they could easily find me to say "You're Retarded!"

[Csilk]

yeah but not everyone is so dense to not go into the script and see the name of the creator, join one of a handful of sites and see said creator active on the forums... maybe that's the exception to the rule but the same result is obtained, the community expands further and virtual pinball and pinball as a whole benefits.

ego shouldn't really be an issue if it was you shouldn't have shared 0.99 test version. don't get me wrong I do understand both points of view to some degree and it's not my intention to offend or make anyone mad, I understand that people are very passionate about VPX and that's a positive thing.

 

but how exactly do you think I found out about this site? or VPX in general? would you be surprised that I didn't just randomly search for here but found it because of a torrent

 

and if that being the case, should I be burned at the stake even though I've since deleted said torrent and re-setup everything fresh and begun curating my tables appropriately for the very reason you are citing as a negative rather than complain about 'x' table not working to 'x' author or to think they are simply retarded rather search for an updated table so I could try a newer version and then call them retarded.

I'm sure I'm not the only one finding their way here through various means, be it Youtube videos, Twitch streams, curiosity, torrents etc...

 

btw you're retarded (jk of course)

Edited by Csilk, 10 June 2021 - 11:36 PM.

[wiesshund]

yeah but not everyone is so dense to not go into the script and see the name of the creator

 

Except you would be surprised at how many scripts you see in those "table packs"
where there is no author info left, only an advertisement for the torrent.

 

Plus, feedback and download counts
that is the author's "payment" for making the table, and incentive to make more.

If you make a table, upload it, one guy downloads it, and throws in in Sammy's UberMegaTable Pak
and so no one else ever comes to download it, the author sees 1 download, no feed back
He/She kind of has 0 incentive to do another one, i mean why bother, only one person downloaded it and didnt even say hi

[Csilk]

ah thats kinda gross.

 

I mean that is the majority of people instant gratification and if it involves signing up on a website and doesn't hand hold you've lost them before they've even begun installing visual pinball.

[emuoyaji]

I would like to paste the updated part of Knorr's 1.4.1 table that is not in this table.

What is the improvement of pasting a playfield mesh from the Knorr table on this table?

[makmak]

yeah but not everyone is so dense to not go into the script and see the name of the creator

 
Plus, feedback and download counts
that is the author's "payment" for making the table, and incentive to make more.

If you make a table, upload it, one guy downloads it, and throws in in Sammy's UberMegaTable Pak
and so no one else ever comes to download it, the author sees 1 download, no feed back
He/She kind of has 0 incentive to do another one, i mean why bother, only one person downloaded it and didnt even say hi

In my opinion: if you make a table to get "payment" in what form so ever, vpx is the wrong place. If you dont do a table just for your own pleasure and upload it to "earn some extra fun", you shouldnt do it. You know in advance you get feedback and clapping hands from the same users as always and way more downloads than feedback.
Im not a "big guy" having done dozens of tables, just one original which I havent uploaded here yet. I dont give feedback to all the tables I download (shame on me) and the majority of downloaded tables I only start once or twice and delete quickly. Tastes vary.

What about a "script" or sth that locks a table after the first game until the user gave feedback, then he receives a code to unlock? Of course this wouldnt prevent uploading unlocked tables elsewhere but at least would result in some more feedback "here" maybe.

[wiesshund]

 

 

yeah but not everyone is so dense to not go into the script and see the name of the creator

 
Plus, feedback and download counts
that is the author's "payment" for making the table, and incentive to make more.

If you make a table, upload it, one guy downloads it, and throws in in Sammy's UberMegaTable Pak
and so no one else ever comes to download it, the author sees 1 download, no feed back
He/She kind of has 0 incentive to do another one, i mean why bother, only one person downloaded it and didnt even say hi

In my opinion: if you make a table to get "payment" in what form so ever, vpx is the wrong place. If you dont do a table just for your own pleasure and upload it to "earn some extra fun", you shouldnt do it. 

 

And your availability of tables will shrink greatly
You think every author personally loves every table they make?

No, they dont.
They make them because other people like them.

 

And every human being that creates something for other human beings wants to know if they did good, unless you have a frontal lobotomy, in which case
you dont much care about anything.

And they also want to know if something is not right, so they can make it right.

[makmak]

You think every author personally loves every table they make?

Yes, thats what I thought. And if A asks B to make a table, I am sure A thanks B for doing so, no?

[wiesshund]

Yes, thats what I thought. And if A asks B to make a table, I am sure A thanks B for doing so, no?

 If 5000 A's give no feedback, then no B doesnt hear anything

And really, we should be doing this in it's own thread and not the damned table's release thread

Sorry Bigus

[bigus1]

That's cool weisshund - stuff needs to be said. Congrats on making top 10 posters

[remdwaas1986]

Sammy's UberMegaTable Pak

 

if I google that I come out with the pakistan website of uber eats hahaha and local chinese snackbars hahaha 

[jpsalas]

You think every author personally loves every table they make?

Yes, thats what I thought. And if A asks B to make a table, I am sure A thanks B for doing so, no?

 

I like to make tables, but most of the tables I make are usually because people ask me to do the table. Some tables I make because I want to make them, and they mostly end being "JP's... something" meaning that the table is my own view of the table, and something is not 100% like the original, sometimes the layout is different, sometimes the rules are different and sometimes the graphics are different

Edited by jpsalas, 11 June 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

@Csilk your never going to understand these requests from the original recreates of these tables... and its not really a request to understand, its a request to respect their decision 
easypeasy really

[Noah Fentz]

@Csilk your never going to understand these requests from the original recreates of these tables... and its not really a request to understand, its a request to respect their decision 
easypeasy really

Weeeelll, I think this is deeper than that. You have authors, like JP, who upload tables that are always free to MOD. Is there even one exception to this, JP?

That being said, if JP's tables are used to create a 'new' version, the new version is to remain free to MOD. That's the wishes of the original author, and that's the spirit in which free to MOD is intended.

Far too often, JP's tables have been used, and not only are they not uploaded here, as he's requested, they are LOCKED DOWN and MODs of it are disallowed. That's not how this is supposed to go.

Wanna guesstimate how many tables that could apply to? Hundreds? More?

For the record, I've seen my tables modded and a ton of my resources used without credit on other sites. I wouldn't even consider going there and demanding a takedown. That's ridiculous. Especially if I don't contribute there or have any interest in doing so. I shared them willingly, I'm thrilled they were helpful to progress a table, and my only dislike is the not giving back part.

[makmak]

Sidenote: I wanna thank Konrad Zuse and Charles Babbage, you know what for.

[hauntfreaks]

 

@Csilk your never going to understand these requests from the original recreates of these tables... and its not really a request to understand, its a request to respect their decision 
easypeasy really

Weeeelll, I think this is deeper than that. You have authors, like JP, who upload tables that are always free to MOD. Is there even one exception to this, JP?

That being said, if JP's tables are used to create a 'new' version, the new version is to remain free to MOD. That's the wishes of the original author, and that's the spirit in which free to MOD is intended.

Far too often, JP's tables have been used, and not only are they not uploaded here, as he's requested, they are LOCKED DOWN and MODs of it are disallowed. That's not how this is supposed to go.

Wanna guesstimate how many tables that could apply to? Hundreds? More?

For the record, I've seen my tables modded and a ton of my resources used without credit on other sites. I wouldn't even consider going there and demanding a takedown. That's ridiculous. Especially if I don't contribute there or have any interest in doing so. I shared them willingly, I'm thrilled they were helpful to progress a table, and my only dislike is the not giving back part.

 

i could never ever deny the impact JP has had on the hobby... and makes the cleanest tables out there, a modders dream, I know because i've modded some... JP has made it clear for year "his" decisions on modding... do to those decisions, his tables have become open targets for... uumm... less reperitable "modders" to butcher his awesome creations, who knows i might be one of those in some peoples eye... boohoo me..lol
so because of this... we ALL appreciate everything he's done, on a personal note, I couldnt appreciate them more... i have countless amounts of his tables in my personal files that i have modded to my own liking... that i dont believe deserved to be shared because all i have done it make them how I like them to look... some i have done more than normal and do share those... a handful.... 
in the end because of his bigheartedness' sometimes all he gets is an "attaboy" in the notes....  this unfortunately is not a blanket feeling among recreators, and thats where were back to respecting the recreators wishes 

[remdwaas1986]

@noah there is:
Mägo de Oz - the pinball - VPForums.org

 

And like i said before we have to respect that. Not that other people respect that, because all the tables are uploaded to that other site without our consent. That's why I keep saying it's just about manners and respect. 

[Noah Fentz]

 

@Csilk your never going to understand these requests from the original recreates of these tables... and its not really a request to understand, its a request to respect their decision 
easypeasy really

Weeeelll, I think this is deeper than that. You have authors, like JP, who upload tables that are always free to MOD. Is there even one exception to this, JP?

That being said, if JP's tables are used to create a 'new' version, the new version is to remain free to MOD. That's the wishes of the original author, and that's the spirit in which free to MOD is intended.

Far too often, JP's tables have been used, and not only are they not uploaded here, as he's requested, they are LOCKED DOWN and MODs of it are disallowed. That's not how this is supposed to go.

Wanna guesstimate how many tables that could apply to? Hundreds? More?

For the record, I've seen my tables modded and a ton of my resources used without credit on other sites. I wouldn't even consider going there and demanding a takedown. That's ridiculous. Especially if I don't contribute there or have any interest in doing so. I shared them willingly, I'm thrilled they were helpful to progress a table, and my only dislike is the not giving back part.
 

i could never ever deny the impact JP has had on the hobby... and makes the cleanest tables out there, a modders dream, I know because i've modded some... JP has made it clear for year "his" decisions on modding... do to those decisions, his tables have become open targets for... uumm... less reperitable "modders" to butcher his awesome creations, who knows i might be one of those in some peoples eye... boohoo me..lol
so because of this... we ALL appreciate everything he's done, on a personal note, I couldnt appreciate them more... i have countless amounts of his tables in my personal files that i have modded to my own liking... that i dont believe deserved to be shared because all i have done it make them how I like them to look... some i have done more than normal and do share those... a handful.... 
in the end because of his bigheartedness' sometimes all he gets is an "attaboy" in the notes....  this unfortunately is not a blanket feeling among recreators, and thats where were back to respecting the recreators wishes 

My observations over the years are quite to the contrary. It's been politics over politeness for a very long time.

[Noah Fentz]

@noah there is:
Mägo de Oz - the pinball - VPForums.org

 

And like i said before we have to respect that. Not that other people respect that, because all the tables are uploaded to that other site without our consent. That's why I keep saying it's just about manners and respect. 

 

Cool. I wasn't sure there was even one. Thanks for that!

 

Respect starts at the beginning. So many of JP's tables have been used, then not shared here, then locked down as 'permission to MOD'. The respect has to start there, or it's simply not warranted further down the line.

[hauntfreaks]

 

Respect starts at the beginning. So many of JP's tables have been used, then not shared here, then locked down as 'permission to MOD'. The respect has to start there, or it's simply not warranted further down the line.

 

I have a super unpopular to some answer for this.... JP coming out and saying "if you mod please make sure you share at VPF"   boy would that throw a wrench in the works...LOL
I've seen people request dont share on VPB,VPF, VPU.... but never if you do share, share it at X also...LOL