76 replies to this topic

[Thalamus]

@blackpredator72 : I super wild guess. Could you load the table, change the Intro option to 0, save, exit and load again. Does that change anything ? Maybe even open and delete the intro file from sound manager.

Edited by Thalamus, 20 January 2021 - 06:51 PM.

[BlackPredator72]

I tried it but it makes no difference

I really think the problem is VPX in general on my pc.

 

- When I start only the program VPX it starts quick, when I close it, it closes quickly.

- Opening any table (from the tables folder or in VPX) feels much slower than normal and some tables, like Bugs Bunny, will load very long, VPX is not responding (blue Windows circle is freezing),    but eventually it loads the table into VPX.

- Starting the game when the table is loaded into VPX goes also quick, closing too, so no problems here!

- But when I close VPX it's also slow, as if it's hanging on something (and also here the blue circle is not turning).

 

All other programs, VP9, FX2&3, PA, FP, Pro Pinball and Zaccaria don't have any problems.

Windows is also booting fast.

[rlewis19]

I too have noticed long load times when launching games.  I'm at 10.6 and I use pinbally.  I'm not going to be near my cab for a few days, but I'll try to run some similar tests this weekend.  I'm watching this thread with interest.

[Thalamus]

Yes. I saw the video you made, loading the tables and it is really weird stuff. You are sure that you have disabled any antivirus programs ? I recommend following wiesshund's tip of running those cmd lines of his if you are on win10 and default windows defender. You mention tables folder. Does the behavior change in any way if you take the table out of the tables folder and load it from a different folder ? Very weird stuff. Have you tried different versions of that table ? What other table than BBBB do you think loads extremely slow ?

[toxie]

I guess this is about beta 10.7 taking longer time loading a table than in 10.6. But in my computer it doesn't take so long, I guess it takes about twice the time to load it than it does in 10.6. The bigger the table the longer it takes. 

Also, if I load two tables and when I switch between them to copy/paste something,  it takes also much longer to switch between them. 

What?? Really? Just the table load takes longer and/or the time after loading is finished to starting it?

[toxie]

Ok, so I downloaded this little tool called Process Monitor v3.61 https://docs.microso...wnloads/procmon

No need for install so started the program and created a filter for: VPinballX.exe, B2SBackglassServerEXE.exe and PinUpDisplay.exe

Then I went to the tables folder and started the Bugs Bunny.vpx file. I ended the process when the table was fully loaded and after that closed Visual Pinball.

I saved the result in the program native format PML: https://www.dropbox....ogfile.PML?dl=0

So if someone can have a look, just download Process Monitor (it's a portable file) and just open the PML file.

I searched a little bit through all the events but I don't know what a normal result would look like, so no good comparison.

Thanks for the PML!

I quickly browsed through it, and not much stood out. But could you maybe completely exit/disable Team Viewer for one test, just to see it if has any sideeffects?

[jpsalas]

 

I guess this is about beta 10.7 taking longer time loading a table than in 10.6. But in my computer it doesn't take so long, I guess it takes about twice the time to load it than it does in 10.6. The bigger the table the longer it takes. 

Also, if I load two tables and when I switch between them to copy/paste something,  it takes also much longer to switch between them. 

What?? Really? Just the table load takes longer and/or the time after loading is finished to starting it?

 

 

Yes, it is the loading that takes longer. When I load the table in 10.6.1 the table loads in and a second later it is shown in the editor. When I load a table in 10.7 it actually loads just as fast (at least the loading bar is the same) but then it waits a lot to show the table in the editor, while the mouse wait icon is showing up.

If I double click a table it takes twice as long to start the table.

[toxie]

Hmmm.. What kind of CPU do you have?

[wiesshund]

 

 

Yes, it is the loading that takes longer. When I load the table in 10.6.1 the table loads in and a second later it is shown in the editor. When I load a table in 10.7 it actually loads just as fast (at least the loading bar is the same) but then it waits a lot to show the table in the editor, while the mouse wait icon is showing up.

If I double click a table it takes twice as long to start the table.

 

 

It does take longer, i guess for various reasons, debugging build, different way of dealing with the graphics etc.
But not his kind of longer, at least not that i have experienced.

my laptop, which is kind of bottom of the barrel as far as being a gaming PC loads bugs bunny (think there is only 1 recent version of it) from doubleclick to playing
in around 30 seconds give or take, but not 3 minutes of loading.

 

EDIT: comparison, 10.6.1 from click to actual play
22 seconds roughly, same laptop

 

Not sure what it is doing for that 3 minutes, nor what thing it sees on his system that makes it feel the need to move at the speed of paint drying.

Don't think his system itself is inherently messed up as 10.6.1 works fine for him

 

This laptop is 
i5 3230M 2.60Ghz nominal 3.20Ghz turbo
8gb dual channel DDR 3 ram @ 797 Mhz (PC3 12800)

5400 rpm low power consumption HDD

HD 4000 GPU

 

so specs are pretty Blah

Edited by wiesshund, 21 January 2021 - 11:34 PM.

[jpsalas]

Hmmm.. What kind of CPU do you have?

 

I have an old computer, but still is powerfull enough to run all the tables without problem.

 

 

 

The motherboard is an ASUS Sabertooth Z77, with 16Gb memory (DDR3)

I think this computer is about 8 years old.

I'm using Windows 10, the latest one.

[jpsalas]

Running Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball (Bally 1991) v2.3a by double clicking the file, without any other program running, without a frontend, and without db2s, just VPX. I'm using a SSD drive, so loading times should be minimal.

Running the computer shown above.

 

Using the latest beta 10.7:

Time from double clicking to see the table: 41 seconds. At 36 seconds the window "preparing table" comes up.

 

Using 10.6.1

Time from double clicking to see the table: 11 seconds. At 6 seconds the window "preparing table" comes up.

 

When quitting the editor, 10.7 spends about 10 seconds to close, while 10.6.1 is closed instantly.

[wiesshund]

Running Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball (Bally 1991) v2.3a by double clicking the file, without any other program running, without a frontend, and without db2s, just VPX. I'm using a SSD drive, so loading times should be minimal.

Running the computer shown above.

 

Using the latest beta 10.7:

Time from double clicking to see the table: 41 seconds. At 36 seconds the window "preparing table" comes up.

 

Using 10.6.1

Time from double clicking to see the table: 11 seconds. At 6 seconds the window "preparing table" comes up.

 

When quitting the editor, 10.7 spends about 10 seconds to close, while 10.6.1 is closed instantly.

 

this is weird, why so much discrepancy?

i went and made sure i had everything off, try to get the cleanest most naked start to the table

since i normally have crap running

B2S off, just to remove that from the equation

Just VPX file and pinmame rom

i did open a cmd prompt and run DIR just to make sure the HDD was not in nap mode, as it shuts off after it is idle.

Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball

This table
https://www.vpforums...showtopic=35602

 

launched from just a shortcut to the vpx file, on my desktop

from 0 to play, in 18 seconds 
VPX 10.7

 

from 0 to play in 16.4 seconds

VPX 10.6.1

 

The difference i will probably attribute to my PC itself
VPX 10.6

 

Time to see table appear in editor before the launch sequence fires off
approx 12.8 seconds

 

then about 5 seconds of black screen (i have exclusive full screen on)

 

and then, the warner bros looney tunes theme is firing up and we have table.

 

But it does not make sense really
this is a laptop, with a slow battery saving HDD, that goes to sleep at the drop of a hat
and parks the heads if you sneeze at it.

It has ddr 3 ram and not very fast ram at that, motherboard does not support it

 

and it is an older i5 mobile CPU

 

And what you guys are using is better, and should load if not faster, than the same at least

Now i do get variance, i think sometimes the HDD drops into sleep, and then it will take 20 seconds from double click to play

 

VPX only seems to read the HDD for a very brief time

the rest of the time, it is not touching the hdd.

Not sure what it is doing in that period?
Farting around with the files in memory, since the vpx file is essentially a compressed blob of things kind of like an excel file

so maybe unpacking into ram? not sure.

 

I am going to have to check this on my desktop, as i feel like it takes longer from click to play on it
and it is a universe apart from this laptop

 

@Toxie
Any possibility of giving us a tracing build, so we can get a trace log on what it is doing, maybe with time stamps
then we could compare what function or functions it is sitting on, and what kind of machines it is sitting for a long time on

 

It does not seem that it should go faster on a lesser machine as far as loading up?
 

[wiesshund]

this adds some drag to the show on this laptop but
(referring to the load of running the vid cap, so subtract 2 seconds for getting back to the table list to click the table
and what ever seems appropriate for the video cap running)
 
Double click and back again
A Pinball's tale
 

 

JP's PC should load run lose and exit the table before i even get started
ok maybe exaggeration a bit, but he and the others should be faster than this laptop, not slower

Edited by wiesshund, 22 January 2021 - 11:03 PM.

[toxie]

OMG, this is clearly insane, JP.. Grrrr.. I'll try to get some test builds out for you guys..

[toxie]

Here a build to test for you guys. Please let me know if this is faster or slower than fuzzels latest official 10.7 beta build and the 10.6 final build.

Attached Files

•  VPinballX.7beta_noMT.zip   23.22MB   9 downloads

[BlackPredator72]

 

Ok, so I downloaded this little tool called Process Monitor v3.61 https://docs.microso...wnloads/procmon

No need for install so started the program and created a filter for: VPinballX.exe, B2SBackglassServerEXE.exe and PinUpDisplay.exe

Then I went to the tables folder and started the Bugs Bunny.vpx file. I ended the process when the table was fully loaded and after that closed Visual Pinball.

I saved the result in the program native format PML: https://www.dropbox....ogfile.PML?dl=0

So if someone can have a look, just download Process Monitor (it's a portable file) and just open the PML file.

I searched a little bit through all the events but I don't know what a normal result would look like, so no good comparison.

Thanks for the PML!

I quickly browsed through it, and not much stood out. But could you maybe completely exit/disable Team Viewer for one test, just to see it if has any sideeffects?

 

Today I disabled TeamViewer, stopped the service and quit all the processes.

What do you think? I start Bugs Bunny and it took exactly 10 seconds, from clicking the .vpx till the table was fully loaded with Puppack.

 

Very strange, because I always used TeamViewer on the cab without problems so I can sit behind my "normal" pc next to the cab.

 

And it feels like all tables are loading faster now.

Edited by BlackPredator72, 23 January 2021 - 01:39 PM.

[Thalamus]

I have installed teamviewer as well. But, I don't let it start until I want to configure the cab from elsewhere. In general, don't start things automatically that you don't need all the time, that is at least my advice.

[BlackPredator72]

I understand what you mean, but I'm almost updating, configuring and playing on a daily basis.

But what I don't understand is, that this wasn't always like this. It started maybe a month or two ago.

Don't know exactly, because I'm also busy with my Arcade cabinet, so I go back and forth between my 3 machines (the 3rd one is my gaming rig for playing Call of Duty and Battlefield).

I know, it's a tough life

[jpsalas]

Here a build to test for you guys. Please let me know if this is faster or slower than fuzzels latest official 10.7 beta build and the 10.6 final build.

 

It is the same. I double-click the table, then It loads the table in a few seconds, wait 39 seconds with the wait cursor spinning then the preparing window comes up and a few seconds later it shows the table.

This is testing the Bugs Bunny table, other tables takes less time, but still is very much longer then in 10.6.1

 

this is the table I'm trying:

Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball (Bally 1991) - VPForums.org

 

I also tried to open the editor, and load the table, and it does the same, the loading bar is shown for a few seconds, then nothing for more than 30 seconds and then the table is shown in the editor. If I click play (or press F5) then it runs the table in a few seconds, more or less like 10.6.1- So it is something 10.7 is doing between the loading and showing the table in the editor (or between the loading and the starting rendering, when it shows the "Preparing table" window).

Edited by jpsalas, 23 January 2021 - 07:28 PM.

[Thalamus]

I didn't do a very comprehensive test of the "test" version. But, here, I could not see very much different load times of any of the vpx's 10.6 / 10.7 or test. Odd.