143 replies to this topic

[kristian]

First major issue: The drop targets. When the captive ball is available there should NEVER, ever be a drop target in front of it. Drop target should always be ONLY on the side where the captive ball isn't intact.

 

Say, if you hit the captive ball on the left and it moves to the right, the left target raises up and and right corner target drops down. When you hit any other target it should NOT raise.

 

Second major issue: The ball should not come like a catapult from the middle drain. The drain shoots it weakly on the playfield... on the side kickers' upper corner level only. 

 

Can't you use Steve Ellenoff's script from my old Baby Pac-Man table? All is working well there.

 

Third issue: You can't capture the ball with the flippers on the real table. End angles 85 (left flipper) and -85 (right flipper) are much more realistic.

 

Fourth issue: The dimensions of this table aren't correct. The backglass should be MUCH larger. I can fix that easily with some tweaks.

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 02:16 AM.

[DarthMarino]

Check my previous posts. I mention the drop target issue and I could not figure out what is causing it.  I see nothing wrong on the coding and no matter what, it wants to cover the captive ball on every other target hit. It really feels like a PinMAME issue despite working fine on VP9. I was able to fix it with a timer that keeps the target in front of the ball down at all times.  The only "issue" is that it doesn't pop up for a split second when the targets reset.  It's probably possible with a few timers but I don't see it as a big deal.  

 

You can just lower the power when the ball kicks out of the drain.  I don't see it as a major issue.

[kristian]

Cool.

 

Don't take any of this personally. I've always been a straight shooter. Some authors haven't played the real thing they're trying to emulate so these things happen. Not a big deal.

 

But for me when a recreation is trying to represent the real machine correctly -- and it doesn't behave like one, it's always a "major issue".

 

The side kickers/slings are way too strong as well. I'll set up more realistic values for them. 

 

I played the real thing less than 6 months ago and wasted my youth with this one. Haha.

 

I've been out of loop for years... can you tell me which value should be adjusted with the catapult ball shooting. I'll set it up and we'll improve this together. Your version has a lot of potential but it just needs some fixes.

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[DarthMarino]

No worries. I'm not actually the author.  Just trying to fix it.  I didn't make any changes to the drain on mine so far.  I just added a timer and some code to fix the drop targets since that is a major issue.

[kristian]

Now this is more like it. Doesn't look so out of proportions anymore.

 

 

 

More fixes:

 

Flipper length: 126

Flipper strength: 1900

End angle (left flipper): 85

End angle (right flipper): -85

 

I have forgotten how to alter the slingshot power on VP or then it used to be different. They're crazy overboard now. Real table has very weak slingshots and weakish flippers.

 

The holes should not throw the ball to any direction. The ball should be kicked straight down, with weakish power.

 

More later.

 

PS: The table itself is beautiful. It just doesn't play like the real thing... yet.

 

Edit: Actually the flipper length should be even more. Or then they're positioned a bit too far from eachother. I have to play more and test. Now the drain is too big anyway.

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[DarthMarino]

Try my drop targets fix and let me know what you think. Like I said, they won't pop up for a split second during the reset.

 

1. Add a new timer called "DropFix" (no quotes). Set the interval to 1 and enable it.

 

2. Change line 192 to:

 Sub sw20_Hit:Controller.Switch(20) = 1 : BallSide=1 : playsound"rollover" : End Sub

 

3. Change line 194 to:

 Sub sw17_Hit:Controller.Switch(17) = 1 : BallSide=2 : playsound"rollover" : End Sub

 

Add this code anywhere:

Dim BallSide

Ballside=1

 

Sub DropFix_Timer

If BallSide=1 Then sw29.isdropped = 0 End If

If BallSide=2 Then sw25.isdropped = 0 End If

DropFix.Enabled = 1

End Sub

[kristian]

I will. Let's fix this together. I want to play this baby and put up some crazy high scores there.

 

Send me the whole script so I can cut and paste it there. I installed VPX today. I have no idea about any of the new shit you guys have put in.

 

Do you have the source backglass image and I'll make it look nicer and more proportioned.

Nevermind... I think I can handle it. Just added the timer. Hold on.

Edit: Hey I think those just fixed it. Well done. 

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[kristian]

This guy sounds like a fruitcake never mind him. But the actual pinball gameplay video starts from 3:40. You can see how the left hole should shoot the ball straight down. You can also see how the ball should be catapulted from the drain. It's crazy overboard now on the VP table.

 

You can clearly see the angle of the flippers too. 85 and -85 are very close. I also moved left flipper 3 units on the right and the right flipper 3 units on the left. With increased flipper length the drain should be more accurate now. The pinball is not overly difficult as the video game Baby Pacman is the hardest one ever made.

 

Notice also the sligshots' very, very weak, almost non-existent kicking power. That' s how it should be.

 

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 03:37 AM.

[Thalamus]

You'll find that VPX is actually very easy to work with compared to VP8 ... I hope and believe we'll be seeing you around more often ?

[kristian]

You'll find that VPX is actually very easy to work with compared to VP8 ... I hope and believe we'll be seeing you around more often ?

 

Sure. When I saw JP's Alien Poker today I was like HOLY SHIT. Things have really changed for the better. 

 

And I played my own Alien Poker recreation for years but I don't even want to look at it after seeing the VPX version. Haha.

 

PS: I met PacDude in Pinball Arcade forums recently. We gave them shit for making way too easy tables.

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 04:41 AM.

[kristian]

Okay... what I have done for this table now:

 

Fixed the left hole, the left hole shot is now much easier. 

All new flipper settings, like on the real table. End angle adjusted to 85 and -85. Also flipper power greatly reduced.

Sligshot power adjusted as per genuine. They have almost zero kick power now (as they should).

Drain ball adjusted, it shoots it now like the real thing.

Fixed table proportions and added cabinet. Now it looks a lot more like the real thing

Real thing had a black plastic covered stripe going all around. Those shiny metal rails were so wrong in many ways.

 

I had to cheat in two things: I "creatively edited" the original backglass to keep bigger part of it visible. The cabinet should be a bit deeper as well but then it would again compromise the visible backglass area.

 

DarthMarino fixed the targets issue.

 

I can safely say that this plays million times better now. Difficulty level is very authentic and it's very hard to capture the ball with flippers (as it should be). 

 

The table playfield design is absolutely beautiful. Kudos to the author. But it didn't play even remotely like the real machine and the proportions were all wrong. Fixed now.

 

No idea what are the modding rules these days but DarthMarino has already contacted the author. I don't want to release any mods but I'm happy to give my work to the author and he can release a new version.

 

At least now I have a great Baby Pac-Man to play again.

 

Edited by kristian, 29 December 2017 - 11:07 PM.

[kristian]

The difficulty level is spot on now. I played this for a couple of hours and managed to get to the 4th maze. There's a trick to "suck points" from the tunnel, I have to make video of it sometime, haha.

My record on real machine is over 4 million. I love this game and this is now much better than my old VP8/9 table... and it looks million times better thanks to VPX and such great playfield work by the original author. I sent the improved and fixed table to the author.

Edited by kristian, 30 December 2017 - 07:27 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

if you select the kickers, and uses "KickerCup2" and change the materials to "playfield" it will have the correct sources for the table.... these are the ones I made that were added to 10.4

[STAT]

Hey big Thanks Guys, Marino, kristian and Hauntfreaks ... really like the Fixes
Really love it, when a Table is going more and more to the real Machine

Changed something, but i can't complete follow you, kristian, what you did with the Kickers, Drainers, and others,
hope you and/or DarthMarino provide a new Set to 32assassin for a new Version (but i missed that at other Tables ;( )

Again: Thanks

Edited by STAT, 30 December 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

LOL... I didnt do anything...lol   but your welcome...   

[STAT]

The KickerCup Things ... ? Whatever

Edited by STAT, 30 December 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[kristian]

I was scratching my head and wondering what was wrong with the dimensions. Then I realized that I had make the cabinet outer edges wrong. It doesn't curve towards the top at all, it's all straight line.

How stupid and arrogant of me. I remembered it wrong, I should have taken better look at the images.

Now this is more like it.



As you can see I removed one dot off the backglass "maze" to get more visible DMD space and still have correct dimensions.



Author and DarthMarino: Download the table again. Same link, same URL.

@STAT: All changes have been explained above. Cheers.

Edited by kristian, 30 December 2017 - 01:28 PM.

[Thalamus]

@Kristian : Well, the latest editing hasn't been explained so I guess we should cross our fingers for an update by 32assassin

 

Thank you.

[kristian]

Ok... I list everything that we made:

 

1.  In the previous table, the drain shot the ball like a catapult to the playfield. It was wrong. Fixed. Drain shot is correct now.

 

2.  In the previous table, right hole shot the ball correctly to the playfield. Untouched.

 

3. In the previous table, left hole shot the ball erroneously right on the playfield. I couldn't figure out what value determines the kicker direction (I've been away for too long, I've forgotten a lot of things) but I managed to make it shoot the ball to the correct direction (although the ball gets collision from the wall nearing the hole when it gets kicked out). Left hole should shoot the ball exactly like the right hole (which has been correct all the time). Perhaps the author can correct this.

 

4. Right inner outlane trigger surface wasn't big enough and the ball didn't get impulse. Now the surface has been enlarged and the right inner outlane works correctly.

 

5. Flipper length increased by a few units and flippers moved a bit towards eachother. Drain space was way too big. Also flipper strength reduced, end angles changed (as per real table). I didn't make the drain hole quite as small as on the real thing (because the real physics are always harder) but now the yellow center target shot cause a draining occasionally (as it should).

 

Here you can see how small the drain is on the real thing and you can also see the low end angle of both flippers. These were both way off too. 

 

 

6. Power of both slingshots reduced (if I remember correctly they are not really slingshots on the real machine, just elastic rubbers who get an impulse when hit.. or then the slingshot kickers work very seldomly and weakly). Again, check the video... they behave like rubbers strings, not like real slingshots.

 

7. FOV and backdrop changed for correct table dimensions and cabinet.

 

8. Left hole shot is now like it should be. I moved the post on the right of the hole just slightly on to the right. 

 

9. Targets major issue all fixed by DM. 

 

Watch the video I sent previously. I made the table play as close to the real thing as I could, based on my long history and knowledge about the real thing.

 

Video game version of Pac-Man is hardest ever made on Baby Pac-Man. To compensate that the pinball part is relatively easy on the real thing. I believe the difficulty level is "somewhat" correct now. It's hard to say because everyone has different skill level... for me it's ok now.

 

Other than moving the post just a little bit on the right (next to the left hole), the layout is completely untouched. Brilliant work there for sure. The table looks amazing now with more correct dimensions.

Edited by kristian, 30 December 2017 - 05:56 PM.

[STAT]

What you mean with "same Link, same URL", there isn't, and i haven't Beers today lol ... yet

 

But i already fixed Targets and Flipper Settings as you Guys said, i think this isn't all, example #4 and #6, i don't know excactly what is to do

Edited by STAT, 30 December 2017 - 07:32 PM.