39 replies to this topic

[rockhouse]

from pinside

Here’s the story with the game ROMs for Flash as best I can piece together.

Flash originally shipped with a System 4 MPU. At the time, this system used yellow flipper ROMs. There were two ROM versions for Flash on system 4. You’ll know which one you have if you go into the adjustments. If the player one display says “0486 1”, that’s the original version that shipped with the game. If it says “0486 2” then it’s the latest version on the yellow flipper ROMs.

Towards the end of the run, some Flash machines shipped with a system 6 MPU. These used green flipper ROMs and only one version of the game ROMs were done for Flash with sys 6 boards. If you turn the game on and go into adjustments, it will say “1486 1”.

All of the discussion I read said that Flash with a system 4 MPU had four ROMs (two flipper two game) and with a system 6 MPU had three ROMs (two flipper one game.) This is mostly outlined on the Action Pinball site page here - http://www.actionpin.../tech/flash.htm

The problem I had was that my Flash had FIVE (5) ROMs (two flipper, three game.)

In an effort to figure out what I had I started to read.

I was further confused by this thread on RGP:
http://rgparchive.co...ead.php?t=31136

And this page on the Action Pinball site:
http://www.actionpin....cgi?name=Flash

And this page on the Mr. Pinball site:
http://arcarc.xmissi...03)/pinchip.txt

And the manual page in Flash for the MPU board. Let’s start there first.

In the manual on the BOM listing for the MPU board it lists the part numbers for the flipper ROMs (IC17 & IC20) as 5A-9008 & 5A-9007. I assumed these were the part numbers for the yellow ROMs, so when I saw the part numbers on the ROMs in my game as 5A-9197 and 5A-9196, I assumed my MPU had green flipper ROMs. This idea was reinforced by the previously referenced Mr. Pinball page which shows that part number to be green flipper ROMs (search for 5A-9197 on the page.) Furthermore, the third game ROM on my MPU is in the socket that is labeled in the schematic as “optional.” So with more ROMs than anyone else had mentioned and part numbers that weren’t in the manual it was easy for me to think I had green ROMs running a version 2 of the software.

The second Action Pinball page referenced above that says he will sell you an L2 version of the ROMs for green flippers. BUT IPDB and Planetary Pinball only list L1 for green flipper ROMs for Flash. There was some discussion on the pinmame forum about someone else thinking there was a v2 version for green flippers for Flash but that was never proven there.

Finally I find my ROM burner, and did a ROM verification on the 5A-9196 & 5A-9197 ROM and discover that what I have are yellow 1 & yellow 2 flipper ROMs respectively.

Looking closely at the Mr. Pinball page above, while it says that the 5A-9197 part number is for green ROMs, it also listed the checksum for the ROM – which happens to be the same as the yellow flipper ROMs on the Planetary Pinball site.

What was my conclusion?

There were two versions of ROM for Flash on system 4 and one on system 6 as outlined on Action Pinball’s site, but the information there has one error. In addition to looking at adjustments you’ll know which version you have by the count of ROMs:

0486 1 = system 4, four ROM chips (IC17, IC20, IC21, IC22 populated.)
0486 2 = system 4, five ROM chips (IC17, IC20, IC21, IC22, IC26 populated.)
1486 1 = system 4 & 6, three ROM chips (IC14, IC17, IC20 populated.)

If you need new ROM chips for your machine the only ones officially available for download are the “1486 1” version with green flipper ROMs. If you have “0486 1” or “0486 2” and need a new IC21, IC22 or IC26 you will have to pull all the ROMs because you will have to replace the yellow flipper ROMs with the green ones as you won't be able to make any of these without an expensive burner and old programmable bipolar PROMs.

Other conclusions:
The manual for Flash either lists a part number for an earlier version of the yellow flipper ROMs, or is wrong. Interestingly system 6 BOM listings on the schematics leave the part numbers blank for the flipper ROMs

The page on Mr. Pinball referenced above is wrong when it refers to the part numbers for green flipper ROMs. The part numbers and checksums are both correct for yellow flipper ROMs but those are not green flipper ROMs. If you are relying on that page be careful with the info there.

The history and order pages on Action Pinball for Flash are at best incomplete and at worst, wrong. It should list that there is a v2 ROM for yellow flippers and v1 ROM for green on the order page. Perhaps he calls the green version L2 because that's the latest version - I don't know. I doubt that there is a v2 ROM for the green flippers – could be a typo or it may actually exist. He should be commended for at least offering the game ROMs for the yellow flipper ROMs but if you’re going to upgrade anyway, why wouldn’t you upgrade to the green ROM version?

Of course part of my theory is blown out if someone actually has a “1486 2” ROM version for Flash but with calls here and to RGP going unanswered on that count, I will say no until someone can send me a v2 ROM.

Thanks to everyone who helped here and I hope this helps someone in the future. It shows that you can’t believe any single page on the Internet when it comes to this stuff.

viperrwk

hope that helps  

[bpjacobsen]

really nice table. Finally realized I needed the flash_l2 version rom. 

Edited by bpjacobsen, 24 November 2018 - 04:38 PM.

[jpsalas]

UPDATE:

 

3.0 Updated 24.11.2020

Updated script, images & physics:

- added the arcade physics 3.0

- removed workarounds for the vpinmame droptargets as they fully support SSF (hit sounds) with the latest vpinmame.

- new rolling routine that now includes the ball shadow, the ball drop sound from Rothbauer and my ball speed control.

- Easy change of the ambient lightning: Hold down LeftMagnaSave and with RightMagnaSave it will switch between LUT images, from light to dark, 9 levels, and the selection will be saved for the table.

- some extra collision sounds and more random hit sounds.

- added SSF sound support

[bolt]

Thank you for all the updates.

[wiesshund]

 

UPDATE:

 

- removed workarounds for the vpinmame droptargets as they fully support SSF (hit sounds) with the latest vpinmame.

 

 

JP, is this a typo? Or is there some aspect of VpinMAME pertaining to positional audio that i have not yet grasped?

I understand it from a VPX aspect.
In older versions, a target was not a sound addressable object
It did not count as a useable co-ordinate to audio location

Like walls still do not.

But is there some aspect that VPM plays here as well?
And if so, any place i could go read up on it?

PS, enjoying the table
even though i am losing about 3 balls in 75 seconds LOL

Edited by wiesshund, 25 November 2020 - 01:26 AM.

[jpsalas]

The scripts have been updated (core.vbs), and now the sound played is in surround (SSF). After many people have surround sound in their cabs the playsound in VPX was updated to include SSF, but the vpinmame scripts still used simple playsound commands, so we started to drop the .CreateEvents and we added our own _Hit and _dropped subs to play the sounds where the droptargets are located. But the script have been updated So now we don't need to do that anymore The droptargets need to be in the new VPX format and not walls.

[wiesshund]

The scripts have been updated (core.vbs), and now the sound played is in surround (SSF). After many people have surround sound in their cabs the playsound in VPX was updated to include SSF, but the vpinmame scripts still used simple playsound commands, so we started to drop the .CreateEvents and we added our own _Hit and _dropped subs to play the sounds where the droptargets are located. But the script have been updated So now we don't need to do that anymore The droptargets need to be in the new VPX format and not walls.

not going to clutter up this thread, i will open a new one and address it to you

[STAT]

JP, i am not sure, Bonus Lights 10x, 20x … doesn't reset after a Ball Drain/Bonus Count ?

Or is that ok ?

[jpsalas]

JP, i am not sure, Bonus Lights 10x, 20x … doesn't reset after a Ball Drain/Bonus Count ?

Or is that ok ?

 

I haven't a clue I don't know the rules. But in doubt delete the vram

[kiwi]

 

JP, i am not sure, Bonus Lights 10x, 20x … doesn't reset after a Ball Drain/Bonus Count ?

Or is that ok ?

 

I haven't a clue I don't know the rules. But in doubt delete the vram

 

It could be normal, Tri Zone is from the same era and has similar behavior.

[STAT]

ok, well … thanks for the info, kiwi !

[kds70]

Thanks - amazing update; plays and looks very well. Back on cab now in the year 1979

[Atari]

Thank you for this, table plays GREAT!!

 

But one question (and yes, I have searched all over the net for it)

 

HOW THE HELL DO YOU TURN ON THE SOUND??   I can not believe I am the first person asking this.

 

Thanks

 

[jpsalas]

I guess you mean the ROM sounds, and the reason of why you don't have sound is that maybe you have played a MOD of this table where the author have turned off the sound to play his own sounds.

 

To enable the ROM sound again you have 2 choices:

1- Add this line after the line 60 (in this table):

    .Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 1

 

Or press F1 when playing and check the "Use Sound"

[mrjcrane]

JP, Likewise, how about the reverse of this ...... If I mod line 61+ as follows,

 

.Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 0

 

I am assuming it would turn the game sounds "OFF", allowing me to super impose my own sound or sound track into the game??

[jpsalas]

JP, Likewise, how about the reverse of this ...... If I mod line 61+ as follows,

 

.Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 0

 

I am assuming it would turn the game sounds "OFF", allowing me to super impose my own sound or sound track into the game??

 

yes, that's right.

[Atari]

 

To enable the ROM sound again you have 2 choices:

1- Add this line after the line 60 (in this table):

    .Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 1

 

Or press F1 when playing and check the "Use Sound"

 

 

Turns out, I had a bad rom.   Replaced it and it was fine.    Pulled my hair out, but finally got it.   Thanks for the suggestions, and the great table.

Edited by Atari, 29 March 2021 - 02:00 AM.

[wiesshund]

JP, Likewise, how about the reverse of this ...... If I mod line 61+ as follows,

 

.Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 0

 

I am assuming it would turn the game sounds "OFF", allowing me to super impose my own sound or sound track into the game??

 

Just make sure that in the table1 Exit sub you do 

Controller.Games(cGameName).Settings.Value("sound") = 1

that way, for any other use, that rom wont have the sound disabled

[jpsalas]

UPDATE

 

4.0.0 Updated 27.9.2022

- Updated to my VPX7 physics

- cleaned up and deleted unused graphics & reduced the size of the table

- Added my VPX7 LUT changer to darken the table (hold down LEFT CTRL while change with RIGHT CTRL). Including GI brightness adjustment. Use the LUT changer together with the day/night slider to give the table the level of darkness you prefer.

- Updated my mechanical set of sounds to a more "under the glass" sound, as people seem to like those kind of sounds better.

- Changed the Environment image to enhance a little the object shadows.

- Some small small script updates, like the Rolling sound and PlaySoundAt routines.

[tmpc]

Thanks for the update.