458 replies to this topic

[Tiki]

 

Hi

 

Maybe I need different, better glasses?

 

 

Anaglyph is always destroying colors. Try amber-blue glasses.

[qcol]

 

 

Hi

 

Maybe I need different, better glasses?

 

 

Anaglyph is always destroying colors. Try amber-blue glasses.

 

 

Others recommend green / magenta. So the colors are better in what glasses? 

Edited by qcol, 01 September 2023 - 11:22 AM.

[Tiki]

At the end its a matter of taste. For me, amber blue is destroying the colors less as green-magenta.the good thing is, you can get some glasses and test that by yourself with a few clicks. :-)

[Tiki]

Off Topic: 3D is not dead! Lenovo offers 3D without glasses..

"Lenovo shows a 27-inch LCD monitor at the IFA in Berlin that can display three-dimensional images at the push of a button. The viewing-angle-stable IPS panel is equipped with digitally switchable lenticular lenses. These are used to track the stereoscopic views for the viewer, with the camera built into the lower display frame tracking the user's eyes. Thus, the monitor presents both views for the right and left eye to the viewer. 3D glasses are therefore not needed for three-dimensional pictures. The recommended viewing distance is the usual 60 to 100 cm for desk work, and Lenovo specifies a field of view of 40 degrees in 3D mode.

The monitor has 4K resolution with 3840 × 2160 pixels, which is reduced to 1920 × 2160 pixels in 3D mode due to the perpendicular lenses.

The color-strong monitor is supposed to cover 99 percent of DCI-P3, and Lenovo states a DeltaE of less than 2 as color accuracy - so you should not be able to see any color distortions with the naked eye. Thus, the monitor can also be used productively in 2D mode for image editing or desktop publishing.

The Thinkvision monitor has two HMDI 2.1 ports and a DisplayPort version 1.4, the built-in USB hub is controlled via USB-C, and one of the five USB-A ports for peripherals is also USB-C. Devices connected via USB-C can be supplied with up to 100 watts (USB-PD).

Those who want to run the ThinkVision 27" monitor with the 3D Explorer software will need at least an Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060, 16 GB DDR5, an i5 7200 and Windows 10/64 bit. The 3D Explorer platform gives developers tools including a 3D player for viewing videos and files with 3D effects, support for design and productivity software, and an SDK for developers to create 3D applications.

The ThinkVision 27" 3D monitor is intended for professional visualization use. It is scheduled to be available from February 2024 for 3,000 euros."
Source - german
 
another source - english
 
 
Thats totally interesting and very much expensive.. :-)

[vestaviascott]

Definitely Interesting on lenticular screen technology.

 

On the other hand, 3D anaglyph is at a point where its more than "good enough" to allow one to get lost in the game on a much deeper level than 2D.

 

I had experimented with VPX built in anaglyph in 10.7.3 around the first of the year and thought it had merit.

 

But once I saw the 10.8 beta's implementation, it was nearly like going from SD to HDTV.

 

I'm pretty sure I'll never play in 2D again. The 3D is kind of a shocking experience to go from looking at the 2D screen, then putting the cheap $6 glasses on and BAM. It hits you pretty fast that there is a convincingly real pinball machine in front of you.

Edited by vestaviascott, 07 September 2023 - 01:26 AM.

[Gravy]

Off Topic: 3D is not dead! Lenovo offers 3D without glasses..

"Lenovo shows a 27-inch LCD monitor at the IFA in Berlin that can display three-dimensional images at the push of a button. The viewing-angle-stable IPS panel is equipped with digitally switchable lenticular lenses. These are used to track the stereoscopic views for the viewer, with the camera built into the lower display frame tracking the user's eyes. Thus, the monitor presents both views for the right and left eye to the viewer. 3D glasses are therefore not needed for three-dimensional pictures. The recommended viewing distance is the usual 60 to 100 cm for desk work, and Lenovo specifies a field of view of 40 degrees in 3D mode.

The monitor has 4K resolution with 3840 × 2160 pixels, which is reduced to 1920 × 2160 pixels in 3D mode due to the perpendicular lenses.

The color-strong monitor is supposed to cover 99 percent of DCI-P3, and Lenovo states a DeltaE of less than 2 as color accuracy - so you should not be able to see any color distortions with the naked eye. Thus, the monitor can also be used productively in 2D mode for image editing or desktop publishing.

The Thinkvision monitor has two HMDI 2.1 ports and a DisplayPort version 1.4, the built-in USB hub is controlled via USB-C, and one of the five USB-A ports for peripherals is also USB-C. Devices connected via USB-C can be supplied with up to 100 watts (USB-PD).

Those who want to run the ThinkVision 27" monitor with the 3D Explorer software will need at least an Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060, 16 GB DDR5, an i5 7200 and Windows 10/64 bit. The 3D Explorer platform gives developers tools including a 3D player for viewing videos and files with 3D effects, support for design and productivity software, and an SDK for developers to create 3D applications.

The ThinkVision 27" 3D monitor is intended for professional visualization use. It is scheduled to be available from February 2024 for 3,000 euros."
Source - german
 
another source - english
 
 
Thats totally interesting and very much expensive.. :-)

Still a bit small for our needs but maybe they will make a bigger one at some stage. Way back in 2004 in a supermarket in France I saw a 40"ish lenticular 3D video display being used to promote some product (16:9 but probably only 720p). Pretty amazing that we came so far 20 years ago and then seemed to stagnate.
 

Not sure how well lenticular lenses will work when viewed at the angle we need for pinball cab, there could be some alignment issues.

Edited by Gravy, 07 September 2023 - 02:21 AM.

[wiesshund]

not stagnate so much as no consumer demand

[Gravy]

not stagnate so much as no consumer demand

Yeah, I guess those go hand in hand.
 

It was sad to see 3D get canned by all the TV manufacturers just as the technology for passive 3D was getting good, especially for gaming as 4K screens were coming out with passive 3D... then it crashed and burned. I reckon some VPX pincab owners would kill for a 4K modern passive 3D screen with high refresh and whatever other new tech is available in the last 6 years since they canned 3D.
 

Back in the day, it was pretty awesome playing Super stardust HD in 3D (PS3 with my 60" plasma active 3D TV), too bad those active glasses gave me a headache due to lower refresh rate. What was really annoying about the active glasses is if you didn't use them in a long time, their battery level would become so low that the protection circuit kicks in and they can no longer be charged.

 

I might go and give PS3 Top Spin 4 a try in 3D as I only picked that game up recently at a thrift shop and haven't tried it on my main 3D TV yet.

[blindpeser]

A friend of mine and I tried his amber/blue paper glasses yesterday and now we want to dig deeper into it.

Of course I followed the topic, but things seem to change pretty frequently. Is there a tutorial to find the best settings? Which glasses and what pair of colors is recommended? Is a 3rd party software recommended for the best results?

[bcarter1234]

On the other hand, 3D anaglyph is at a point where its more than "good enough" to allow one to get lost in the game on a much deeper level than 2D.

 

I'm pretty sure I'll never play in 2D again. The 3D is kind of a shocking experience to go from looking at the 2D screen, then putting the cheap $6 glasses on and BAM. It hits you pretty fast that there is a convincingly real pinball machine in front of you.

I realize everyone's experience will be different but could you share your settings and what glasses you are using. I mostly see it as if the table graphics are printed on glass and the other elements are on a surface 6" below it or the reverse depending on which color is first in the settings. I also see significant ghosting. It certainly could be me as I need prism in my glasses to merge images.  

 

Thanks,

Brent

[Tiki]

My red-cyan setting

[vestaviascott]

 

On the other hand, 3D anaglyph is at a point where its more than "good enough" to allow one to get lost in the game on a much deeper level than 2D.

 

I'm pretty sure I'll never play in 2D again. The 3D is kind of a shocking experience to go from looking at the 2D screen, then putting the cheap $6 glasses on and BAM. It hits you pretty fast that there is a convincingly real pinball machine in front of you.

I realize everyone's experience will be different but could you share your settings and what glasses you are using. I mostly see it as if the table graphics are printed on glass and the other elements are on a surface 6" below it or the reverse depending on which color is first in the settings. I also see significant ghosting. It certainly could be me as I need prism in my glasses to merge images.  

 

Thanks,

Brent

 

 

Hey Brent, sorry for the late reply. I need to get over here more. My experience is with the 64bit 10.8 GL beta (latest nightly builds). As of build #1443 (Sept 11, 2023), the default Red/Cyan profile with the deghosted filter is my GoTo for 3D Stereo.

 

I'm playing in a cabinet (I have no experience with the desktop version but from what I've heard the experience is less compelling than in cabinet).

 

I use the Red/Cyan "Aviators" and also a pair of clip-on 1.25x Readers. My Cab is a standard width Stern replica with a 43" Asus 4K 144hz display.
 

Helps? I'm happy to answer any specific setup questions you have. I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

[Gravy]

 

 

 

I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

 

Have you found that the recent DirectX builds don't seem to work well with inbuilt 3D (cabinet mode)? It's like the sides of the table have depth and the playfield looks set deeper into the screen but the actual objects on the playfield don't seem to have much depth if any at all? I might try a few more tables and see if its table specific (perhaps there is a glass above the playfield or something and its preventing the 3D from working properly.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

 

I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

 

Have you found that the recent DirectX builds don't seem to work well with inbuilt 3D (cabinet mode)? It's like the sides of the table have depth and the playfield looks set deeper into the screen but the actual objects on the playfield don't seem to have much depth if any at all? I might try a few more tables and see if its table specific (perhaps there is a glass above the playfield or something and its preventing the 3D from working properly.

 

 

Which POV method?

[vestaviascott]

 

 

 

 

I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

 

Have you found that the recent DirectX builds don't seem to work well with inbuilt 3D (cabinet mode)? It's like the sides of the table have depth and the playfield looks set deeper into the screen but the actual objects on the playfield don't seem to have much depth if any at all? I might try a few more tables and see if its table specific (perhaps there is a glass above the playfield or something and its preventing the 3D from working properly.

 

After Niwak let us know that the DirectX version of VPX could only do "fake" stereo 3D, I have completely abandoned it in favor of the 10.8 OpenGL version. I'm very satisfied with the 3D stereo performance of the 10.8 GL Beta release. I'm running the 64 bit version at 144hz with a 43" 4K Asus monitor using the "Window" POV (aka "Player perspective").

Unbeatable and rivals the VR experience. Less color accuracy than VR but with the benefit you only have to use a $6 pair of glasses and no tethered cord, no hot head, no battery life issues to deal with and you can see the room and friends around you! Basically this is as close to Apple Vision Pro AR experience that's possible to have today.

Edited by vestaviascott, 16 September 2023 - 11:19 PM.

[Gravy]

 

 

 

 

 

I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

 

Have you found that the recent DirectX builds don't seem to work well with inbuilt 3D (cabinet mode)? It's like the sides of the table have depth and the playfield looks set deeper into the screen but the actual objects on the playfield don't seem to have much depth if any at all? I might try a few more tables and see if its table specific (perhaps there is a glass above the playfield or something and its preventing the 3D from working properly.

 

 

Which POV method?

 

Window, although I think I had the zpd too low so it was likely operator error.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've tried 3D Stereo with the VPX DirectX version and it is severely lacking compared to the quality of 3D with the GL version.

 

Have you found that the recent DirectX builds don't seem to work well with inbuilt 3D (cabinet mode)? It's like the sides of the table have depth and the playfield looks set deeper into the screen but the actual objects on the playfield don't seem to have much depth if any at all? I might try a few more tables and see if its table specific (perhaps there is a glass above the playfield or something and its preventing the 3D from working properly.

 

After Niwak let us know that the DirectX version of VPX could only do "fake" stereo 3D, I have completely abandoned it in favor of the 10.8 OpenGL version. I'm very satisfied with the 3D stereo performance of the 10.8 GL Beta release. I'm running the 64 bit version at 144hz with a 43" 4K Asus monitor using the "Window" POV (aka "Player perspective").

Unbeatable and rivals the VR experience. Less color accuracy than VR but with the benefit you only have to use a $6 pair of glasses and no tethered cord, no hot head, no battery life issues to deal with and you can see the room and friends around you! Basically this is as close to Apple Vision Pro AR experience that's possible to have today.

 

Yeah... I can't wait to be able to properly experience the GL version, need a new PC as current doesn't run it at all.

[elmera]

Any other Reshade cab users try the new VPW Gozilla table?  Great table, but unfortunately with Reshade enabled the inserts get a 3D effect applied so they look like they're hovering above the playfield.  Its the first table I've experienced this.  Probably has something to do with how the table is created using VPX 10.8, although I haven't had the issue on any of the other recent VPW tables requiring 10.8.  

[wiesshund]

Any other Reshade cab users try the new VPW Gozilla table?  Great table, but unfortunately with Reshade enabled the inserts get a 3D effect applied so they look like they're hovering above the playfield.  Its the first table I've experienced this.  Probably has something to do with how the table is created using VPX 10.8, although I haven't had the issue on any of the other recent VPW tables requiring 10.8.  

 

Probably has to do with either how the inserts are colored, or how they are made.

are they by chance using prims for inserts?

[elmera]

 

Any other Reshade cab users try the new VPW Gozilla table?  Great table, but unfortunately with Reshade enabled the inserts get a 3D effect applied so they look like they're hovering above the playfield.  Its the first table I've experienced this.  Probably has something to do with how the table is created using VPX 10.8, although I haven't had the issue on any of the other recent VPW tables requiring 10.8.  

 

Probably has to do with either how the inserts are colored, or how they are made.

are they by chance using prims for inserts?

 

 

Hmm..  not sure.  I sent a message on their tables support page seeing if there was something different about the inserts on that tables vs others.  

[Tiki]

Any other Reshade cab users try the new VPW Gozilla table?  Great table, but unfortunately with Reshade enabled the inserts get a 3D effect applied so they look like they're hovering above the playfield.  Its the first table I've experienced this.  Probably has something to do with how the table is created using VPX 10.8, although I haven't had the issue on any of the other recent VPW tables requiring 10.8.

Can you show a screenshot?
Ah, got it. I had to install 10.8 GL and use the inbuild anaglyph settings - the left side is 10.8 directX with reshade not configured well but inserts do look different. (red-cyan)

Edited by Tiki, 18 September 2023 - 12:49 PM.