440 replies to this topic

[DJRobX]

 Will this work on CCC 1.2 table version.

 

The table script update is for Cactus Canyon 2.0.   If you want it to work with an older version of the table you could use the updated P-roc code and change UseSolenoids from 1 to 39 in your table script.  

 

The table code I updated has a slightly fancier block of code to change UseSolenoids to either 2 or 39 depending on whether or not you're using CCC or regular CC.     Not really needed, just know that if P-Roc is on, UseSolenoids should be 39.   Otherwise it should be 2 for regular VPM.

[Ben Logan]

Thanks for all your hard work here, guys!

[Carny_Priest]

I've updated Thalamus' repo with Fast Flip support for Cactus Canyon Continued.

 

https://github.com/s...pxtable_scripts

You will need the updated table script as well as two updated files to the P-roc CCC game files.     Because of "Drunk flips" mode you also need FastFlips 2.0:

https://sourceforge....cripts/core.vbs

For some reason P-roc silently chokes if I try to use Solenoid 31 like the standard ROM, but unused Solenoid 39 seems to be fine, so I went with that.    

 

Thanks, I'll update the CCCforVP code repository with your code changes.

[DJRobX]

 

Thanks, I'll update the CCCforVP code repository with your code changes.

 

 

Awesome.    Thank you Carny!   Yes, this update is safe for both fast and non-fast flipper users, so updating your repo is ideal.    I didn't know you were the one hosting it or I would have reached out.    

[Brer Frog]

I just read all 18 pages of this thread & my head is spinning and am not 100% sure what needs to be done to use FastFlips. I’ve been playing mostly DT with a monitor & have not had an issue with flipper lag. However I‘m working on a mini-cab with a 27“ playfield monitor and don’t know how flipper lag will be but figured I’d better be prepared.

After reading through the thread it seems like an updated core.vbs is needed. I am on VP 10.4.0 Final. Do I just get the new core.vbs or should I update to VP 10.5 beta?

I frequently read that all you that need to do (or words to that effect) is make sure the table script contains "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". But then it appears a lot of postings are about making other changes to table scripts. Does every table script also need some individual customization?

To add to my confusion - I have the latest version of Harley Davidson by JPSalas.
https://www.vpforums...&showfile=13632
He says “I have enabled the fastflips, since now VPX 10.5 is out and the new vpinmame 3.1 too.” And “If you haven't updated yet then you'll need to change line 20 to Const UseSolenoids = 1”

The script does have "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". However the flippers work just fine on my VP 10.4 setup without any changes.

I recently downloaded Attack from Mars by g5k from another website.
Its script also contains "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". However my flippers do not work unless I make "UseSolenoids=1".

Why does Harley Davidson with FastFlips work with VP 10.4?

I‘m obviously missing some (or a lot of) basic information on how FastFlips works. I’m sure it’s in the 18 pages but my old brain missed it.

For starters, do I need just the new core.vbs or should I update to VP 10.5 beta?

Should I be prepared to customize every table script in addition to adding "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me"?

Edited by Brer Frog, 29 August 2018 - 09:05 AM.

[TT11]

Brer Frog- I concur with you.  I'm stumped too.

[Thalamus]

Ok. This is my suggestion. Yes. You should upgrade your 10.4 to 10.5 - it is not a beta anymore it's the latest and greatest. Run the one in all installer and you are up to date with everything except color support for SAM. If you need that you need to got to the other site for vpinmame update.

 

So, to your confusion. Sometime during 10.6 beta cycle, the new core.vbs will be introduced. The more people that run it the more feedback we probably get. Right now I don't recommend ANYONE that doesn't know why they need it to use it.

 

I don't know when it is going to be distributed with VP. The devs decide that based upon feedback I guess.

 

useSolenoids=2 doesn't mean that the flippers die on you. Start a table - press F11, while the ball is in the through press left flipper and read the statistics from the left flipper. If fastflips isn't working then you see the response time going between 1-20ms. If however your software is up to date and it has been correctly implemented in the table script. You will see it under 1ms or at least very very fast compared.

 

Many people have understood what has been said to them in the forums and have implemented FF on their own. I've provided a github repository with a huge amount of tables that didn't have this code and Wob has done a fantastic job in verifying and fixing my work. So, I hope and believe that if you don't know how to do it. You can find the table and see how it is implemented or replace the script code. The absolute best would be that the table authors used this repo to updated their tables with. But, I don't expect that to happen. In addition to FF these scripts have all implemented at least the 9th paramter for playsound. Which means that elements in collections do get 7.1 directional improved locations and should slightly improve the sound for everyone, but largely improve it for people that have implemented 7.1 in their cabs. I'm still slowly improving, now with elements that didn't get updated in the bulk edit I first did. I have NO plans to improve them all beyond their current state.

 

There will be a new thing coming with 10.6 and that is sidecar loading of vbs scripts. It basically means. You can take the same files (from github) and put them in the same folder as the table. VP will see this on startup and replace the script inside the table automatic on loading. So, if you are really scared of messing it up. Just download the file. Start VP. If you don't like what you see and hear. Delete the *.vbs and your back to the standard.

 

So, there has been talk about FFv2. That is even more bleeding edge than the regular FF. Wob has been working hard on that. And that WILL required 10.6 (beta at first )- or manually downloading the new core.vbs as mentioned already. But, the same should apply. If the author hasn't updated the table. You will probably be in good hands if you download "updates" from the github repo.

 

You ask if other things needs to be changed ? It might be. And some of those fixes is already included for you. And our hope and belief is that FFv2 minimizes the "problems" that arise from the "hack" that it is, not needing to wait for pinmame.

 

So, in short. I wouldn't worry about the old tables. If you don't notice any difference after updating and/or playing a table where FF of any version is working. Personally. I can feel it right away now when a table has the "old delay". Almost every time I start a table these days I do set a new GC.

 

I again - want to make it clear. Nothing is better than if the author updated the table himself. That will render the script obsolete IF he just approves the changes made that is. You might think. Well, look who's talking. Avatar and Algar is on the list. Yes. I know. But, changes on those tables are still minor at the moment. I hope to get to it at a later date.

 

Hope that this clarifies it a bit for you guys ?

Edited by Thalamus, 29 August 2018 - 06:32 PM.

[DJRobX]

Fast Flips is available in 10.4 final.  There were some issues that have been corrected in 10.5's scripts.

Since the release of the original Fast Flips included in 10.4, we've been trying to work out how to increase the coverage for games that the original technique did not work for, and resolve the remaining imperfections.    Additional game support has mostly provided in updates to VPinmame, while Nfozzy's "Fast flips 2.0" script update tackles some of the technical challenges with video modes and ROM-initiated flipping ("thing", "phamtom" fflips).    This script update is essentially the beginning of VPX 10.6 Beta, but since that cycle has not started yet, we release here so people can start testing.

Many of the newer tables you download from authors directly support Fast Flips out of the box and there is nothing you need to do to make it work.   Many of the pages in this discussion have been about what's required to retrofit support into the existing older tables.    Today, you can check out Thalamus' table script repository, the guesswork has been removed - you can just download their script updates and apply it to your table.  

[DJRobX]

Sometime during 10.6 beta cycle, the new core.vbs will be introduced. The more people that run it the more feedback we probably get. Right now I don't recommend ANYONE that doesn't know why they need it to use it.

 

Fast Flips 2.0 is already in 10.6.   When I remind people where to get it, I point them at the Visual Pinball sourceforge page to get the very latest.    This update actually makes FF less "risky" to run than the original FF.      It removes the "flippers are dead when they should be active" scenario, because when the solenoid turns off, the game will now revert to standard flips.    So some of the corner cases like the Million Dollar Shot not working in NBA Fastbreak would have been less catastrophic to the gameplay.  

 

So far I have not found any problems with the update. 

[DJRobX]

I recently downloaded Attack from Mars by g5k from another website.
Its script also contains "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". However my flippers do not work unless I make "UseSolenoids=1".
 

 

Your VPinmame is probably out of date.   AFM requires a newer version of VPinmame than Bally Harley Davidson to work with Fast Flips.   

[Brer Frog]

 

I recently downloaded Attack from Mars by g5k from another website.
Its script also contains "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". However my flippers do not work unless I make "UseSolenoids=1".
 

 

Your VPinmame is probably out of date.   AFM requires a newer version of VPinmame than Bally Harley Davidson to work with Fast Flips.   

 

 

Will VPinmame get updated when I run the VP 10.5 all-in one installer?

[DJRobX]

Will VPinmame get updated when I run the VP 10.5 all-in one installer?

 

 

 

Yes.   The VPinmame you get will be new enough for AFM FF.     As a side-note, If you want to use colorized ROMs you should grab the latest "SAMBuild" and "Freezy DMD extensions" available on other sites, the components included in the AIO installer have colorizing disabled.

[DKong]

Many people have understood what has been said to them in the forums and have implemented FF on their own. I've provided a github repository with a huge amount of tables that didn't have this code and Wob has done a fantastic job in verifying and fixing my work. So, I hope and believe that if you don't know how to do it. You can find the table and see how it is implemented or replace the script code.

 

I'm struggling to follow what you guys are up to behind the scenes. There are some older VPX tables I have not been able to implement FastFlips (most work though), so I had a look at your Github page of .vbs scripts. I replaced the table script code with that table's code from the GitHub, but VPX threw errors.

 

The table I was working with is Fathom Vintage mod. This is one of the few tables which changing Solenoids=2 does not work. They flippers go dead in this case, so I need to leave Solenoids=1.

 

What do I do with the scripts from the Github site for those tables I want to update to use FF?

 

Thanks.

[Wob]

 

Many people have understood what has been said to them in the forums and have implemented FF on their own. I've provided a github repository with a huge amount of tables that didn't have this code and Wob has done a fantastic job in verifying and fixing my work. So, I hope and believe that if you don't know how to do it. You can find the table and see how it is implemented or replace the script code.

 

I'm struggling to follow what you guys are up to behind the scenes. There are some older VPX tables I have not been able to implement FastFlips (most work though), so I had a look at your Github page of .vbs scripts. I replaced the table script code with that table's code from the GitHub, but VPX threw errors.

 

The table I was working with is Fathom Vintage mod. This is one of the few tables which changing Solenoids=2 does not work. They flippers go dead in this case, so I need to leave Solenoids=1.

 

What do I do with the scripts from the Github site for those tables I want to update to use FF?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Fathom needed extra edits, not sure if those have made it into the repo, If you are struggling maybe start with my spreadsheet, I tried to summarise the process on the "Info" Sheet.

 

The note for Fathom was.. Add to soltimer_timer.. "if UseSolenoids > 1 then if solnum = vpmFlips.Solenoid then vpmFlips.TiltSol cBool(ChgSol(ii, 1))"

 

https://docs.google....s9jg/edit#gid=0

 

Wob

Edited by Wob, 30 August 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[Thalamus]

If you have an actual error. I would like to hear about it. These tables where exported before Rob made the feature that makes it easy to extract the script from the table. So, a very boring and tedious job indeed. When humans get bored there is a higher chance of doing mistakes. I believe I've tested all the tables after doing the bulk edit. But, I can't really be sure about that either. That too is a boring task

 

I see that the line mentioned is in the script already. So, that means I will have to verify that it is working once again I guess.

 

Just saw that Wob verified it for me - thanks !

 

Right now I don't have time, on my way to work.

 

Reading from what Rob said. This sounds like a table that will benefit from FFv2. Well. I probably should say. All will.

Edited by Thalamus, 30 August 2018 - 05:47 AM.

[Wob]

Just compared the repo script to my own, I use the vintage and know it works, and all looks good, so post the error and we can see if we can work it out.

[Brer Frog]

 

I recently downloaded Attack from Mars by g5k from another website.
Its script also contains "UseSolenoids=2" and "vpmInit Me". However my flippers do not work unless I make "UseSolenoids=1".
 

 

Your VPinmame is probably out of date.   AFM requires a newer version of VPinmame than Bally Harley Davidson to work with Fast Flips.   

 

 

I tried 4 tables with the old setup & the left flipper response was about 15-25 ms on all of them. Then I updated to VP 10.5 using the all-in-one installer & tried the same tables, one after the other without closing completely out of VP.

Harley Davidson which is configured for Fast Flips gave a left flipper time typically about .3 ms.

The AFM version 1.2.0 by JP just to see how it behaved & it was 15-20 ms.

Black Knight which I thought was setup for Fast Flips but the flipper time was about 20 ms.

AFM by g5k which is configured for FastFlips and the left flipper time was 70-120 ms and sometimes would not work.

I completely closed out of VP and launched it again & the AFM by g5k flipper time was now about .3 ms. Apparently something previously got hung up from one of the 3 other tables.

I went back to Black Knight & made UseSolenoid =2. The “vpmInit Me” was already in the script. Flipper time went down to about .3 - .4 ms.

I tried to duplicate the g5k AFM flipper problem but now ended up with Harley Davidson having the same problem. This happened twice & also hung up at times. See screen shot.

 

 Harley Davidson flipper.jpg   80.7KB   5 downloads

I’m trying different combinations of the same 4 programs without closing out of VP but so far don’t know what’s making the flippers hang up, but it’s only happened to the two tables that are made for FastFlips. I’ll keep trying & see if it can be consistently duplicated & report back.

[Brer Frog]

Harley Davidson works fine with Fast Flips -- until it’s played following either AFM by JP or AFM by g5k. Then HD’s flipper time is about 60-160ms or hangs up & doesn’t move. This happens every time, until VP is closed out & re-started.

HD (Harley Davidson (Bally - 1991) v1.0.2.zip) and AFM by g5k (from another website) are both configured for FastFlips.

AFM by JP (Attack from Mars 1.2.0) has Solenoids=1. Making Solenoids=2 changes the table to FastFlips, however it still messes up HD.

I can start with AFM and then play several other tables without closing VP. But when HD plays the flippers have a major problem. IOW HD does not have to immediately follow AFM. It can be 4 or 5 games down the line & will still have problems.

Is this an AFM issue or an HD issue?

Earlier I mentioned AFM had a flipper problem, however I cannot duplicate it. It’s possible I got my tables confused with all the experimenting I was doing. Now I’ve documented every step & there is some kind of interaction between either version of AFM and HD.

[STAT]

You did all on DT View - or sometimes with FS & directb2s ?

Edited by STAT, 30 August 2018 - 10:03 AM.

[Thalamus]

I must say I'm a bit surprised by your findings. But, one thing I almost always do is to exit VP after every game. The front-ends do that and I've come to learn that all sorts of problems may arise if I don't.
Rom sound disappearing is maybe the easiest to notice right away. Maybe your report makes sense to any of the senior members.