2044 replies to this topic

[blindpeser]

Guy's it's not a matter of tables that work or does not work with DMD, the table has to have a textbox with the text DMD in the background options and VPVR will automatically place/render it, you can create one yourself if the table does not have one. A lot of tables don't use textbox for DMD that's why they are missing.

No, it doesnt work on every table. Plus you need to add lines into the tables script. I am sure Karlor is talking about tables he did that on.

[Rawnei]

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

Guy's it's not a matter of tables that work or does not work with DMD, the table has to have a textbox with the text DMD in the background options and VPVR will automatically place/render it, you can create one yourself if the table does not have one. A lot of tables don't use textbox for DMD that's why they are missing.

No, it doesnt work on every table. Plus you need to add lines into the tables script. I am sure Karlor is talking about tables he did that on.

 

 

Well yeah ok you need to add a line as well if it's missing, point being tables can be fixed to work with textbox until we get support for flasher and/or backglass DMD.

Edited by Rawnei, 15 March 2019 - 01:50 PM.

[blindpeser]

 

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

Guy's it's not a matter of tables that work or does not work with DMD, the table has to have a textbox with the text DMD in the background options and VPVR will automatically place/render it, you can create one yourself if the table does not have one. A lot of tables don't use textbox for DMD that's why they are missing.

No, it doesnt work on every table. Plus you need to add lines into the tables script. I am sure Karlor is talking about tables he did that on.

 

 

Well yeah ok you need to add a line as well if it's missing, point being tables can be fixed to work with textbox until we get support for flasher and/or backglass DMD.

 

And as I said, that doesnt work on all tables.

[matty sexy pants]

https://www.youtube....LYIEm9kkvU&t=0s

Jeremy featured VPVR on his Tested channel 

Edited by matty sexy pants, 15 March 2019 - 03:10 PM.

[blindpeser]

https://www.youtube....LYIEm9kkvU&t=0s
Jeremy featured VPVR on his Tested channel 

Nice! Bad graphics? Jeremey? The lighting engine needs improvements. But overall the graphics are awesome.

Edited by blindpeser, 15 March 2019 - 04:28 PM.

[hlr53]

https://www.youtube....LYIEm9kkvU&t=0s

Jeremy featured VPVR on his Tested channel 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube....LYIEm9kkvU&t=0s
Jeremy featured VPVR on his Tested channel 

Nice! Bad graphics? Jeremey? The lighting engine needs improvements. But overall the graphics are awesome.

 

 

Jeremy should have mentioned this is an early Beta to qualify the "bad" graphics, which I also don't agree with either :-)

 

It was an excellent presentation though.

[Slydog43]

wow, Jeremy's pincab looks a lot like mine.  I just built another one today that is 1/2 height 1/2 depth, but still has a lockdown bar and is wireless (no analog plunger though).  New MicroPin can be played on your lap when sitting down, works great.

[The Loafer]

 

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with VR sickness.  I've been VR'ing since DK2 and have super strong VR legs, I've played flight sims no issues (outside of how a real person would feel in a dogfight LOL). My current issue is I am stricken with vertigo right now since last Sunday where any movement of my head comes with some spinning and laying down for sleeping was earlier in the week disastrous.  Something about crystals in my inner ear BS eheh.  Anyway It's getting better but knowing what VR can do when you aren't afflicted with vertigo, I'm a little gun-shy to forge ahead, especially since I'm leaving for a 3 week trip... with two of those weeks on a cruise ship... crossing the atlantic.  Gotta be in good shape by the 27th of March!

[Karlor]

 

Not sure if there is a advantage or not, usually 64 is better but maybe not if its not ready yet.

 

Found some more tables that work with DMD:

Monopoloy
FamG
Indy 500
TOTAN
Wheel of For

 

You think you could share a complete list?

 

I will try to compile a list maybe even with links to the diff bits as stuff to get them running as some seem scattered to the winds currently... The tables I listed there are just out-of-the box working, no hacking around involved. I have tried lot of experimenting with the textbox and its hit or miss.Sometimes its as easy as changing the name, on one I got it kind of working by naming it Scorebox or something.. but honestly the only ones I'v modded on and got working manual with DMD is Batman DE and Big Bang Bar FSS tables but this hack isn't without its downsides either. There are also some games that need a bit of code inserted/changed to get DMD going and I'm still messing with those(i'm no coder so its paste and pray).. But those on the list up there worked great out of the box and Im pretty sure I tested out plain and with b2s and they looked pretty good TOTAN is currently in the running for fav pinball, it's a knock out and so much fun.

 

Have a round of about 15 games I'm going to hack around on this weekend and see if I get anywhere with them.

Edited by Karlor, 15 March 2019 - 07:40 PM.

[Rawd]

 

 

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with VR sickness.  I've been VR'ing since DK2 and have super strong VR legs, I've played flight sims no issues (outside of how a real person would feel in a dogfight LOL). My current issue is I am stricken with vertigo right now since last Sunday where any movement of my head comes with some spinning and laying down for sleeping was earlier in the week disastrous.  Something about crystals in my inner ear BS eheh.  Anyway It's getting better but knowing what VR can do when you aren't afflicted with vertigo, I'm a little gun-shy to forge ahead, especially since I'm leaving for a 3 week trip... with two of those weeks on a cruise ship... crossing the atlantic.  Gotta be in good shape by the 27th of March!

 

Nice to see you Loafer!   My dad dealt with that inner ear issue, and it didn't last too long.  Enjoy your trip!

[Karlor]

 

 

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with VR sickness.  I've been VR'ing since DK2 and have super strong VR legs, I've played flight sims no issues (outside of how a real person would feel in a dogfight LOL). My current issue is I am stricken with vertigo right now since last Sunday where any movement of my head comes with some spinning and laying down for sleeping was earlier in the week disastrous.  Something about crystals in my inner ear BS eheh.  Anyway It's getting better but knowing what VR can do when you aren't afflicted with vertigo, I'm a little gun-shy to forge ahead, especially since I'm leaving for a 3 week trip... with two of those weeks on a cruise ship... crossing the atlantic.  Gotta be in good shape by the 27th of March!

 

It's the inner ear thing gettin ya. I'm solid as a rock usually but a few years back I had an issue with dizzy spells. I would be laying on the ground under a car on a creeper and BAM.. it was like instantly getting off one of those spinning fair ride space ships.. it took about 2 weeks to go away. Not sure what it was really but it'll pass and you'll be right as the mail soon.

[hlr53]

 

 

 

I would assume aside from some possible performance gains, the real benefit to a 64bit VP executable is access to more memory.  Would this benefit some of the larger tables or are they still way under the memory access bar (2 gb??) 

 

This VR branch can lead so many benefits to VP as a whole!  Thanks Caligula!   Vertigo or no vertigo, I'm trying this VR fork this weekend!  Not gonna let a little throwing up get in the way LOL

 

Are you standing up or sitting down when you try it? Try sitting down if you aren't might help a bit with the vertigo. Also make sure you have the correct IPD.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with VR sickness.  I've been VR'ing since DK2 and have super strong VR legs, I've played flight sims no issues (outside of how a real person would feel in a dogfight LOL). My current issue is I am stricken with vertigo right now since last Sunday where any movement of my head comes with some spinning and laying down for sleeping was earlier in the week disastrous.  Something about crystals in my inner ear BS eheh.  Anyway It's getting better but knowing what VR can do when you aren't afflicted with vertigo, I'm a little gun-shy to forge ahead, especially since I'm leaving for a 3 week trip... with two of those weeks on a cruise ship... crossing the atlantic.  Gotta be in good shape by the 27th of March!

 

That sucks. BPPV and is caused by otoconia. My wife gets that on occasion and has the same symptoms. Amazing how those tiny inner ears keep us upright. 

Edited by hlr53, 15 March 2019 - 08:02 PM.

[gear323]

https://www.youtube....LYIEm9kkvU&t=0s
Jeremy featured VPVR on his Tested channel 

I have a dual contact leaf switch set up on my PinSim and it works great. Thanks Jeremy!

wow, Jeremy's pincab looks a lot like mine.  I just built another one today that is 1/2 height 1/2 depth, but still has a lockdown bar and is wireless (no analog plunger though).  New MicroPin can be played on your lap when sitting down, works great.

Nice Slydog43. Picture or it didnt happen?

[gear323]

For those that are using Jeremy's PinSim, what settings in VPX are you using for nudging the table with the built in accelerometer?   I've been trying to get this dialed in and below is what I have come up with so far: (I made my PinSim a little heaver and the length is longer than the standard so im thinking my settings may be a little too strong for the standard build) 

 

VPX Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge and DOF

 

Enable Nudge Filter: Check
Enable Analog Nudge: Check

Tilt Sensitivity: 47

X Axis X-Max 100 - X=Gain32
X Axis Y-Max 100 - X=Gain32

Deadzone 11%

 

Also when nudging the table past a certain percent the entire table and room all jerk around.  Anyone know if that can be disabled since that is a pretty bad experience in VR?  Is that maybe a script setting?

 

Edit: Looks like i kind of answered my own question. Under VPX Preferences -->  Video/Graphics options there is an option called "Visual Nudge Strenght". I set that to zero and that fixes the room shaking when nudging.   However now I can nudge a ball all i want since this seems to also disable TILT.  

 

It seems that we need the PinSim Firmware or the VPX software to have a feature where when nudging past 40% or so to not register the accelerometer at all for half a second or so or to not allow registers in the opposite direction of the nudge for that period of time.   Basically the issue is when nudging somewhat hard, the accelerometer registers in the direction you nudged and then also in the opposite direction as well and that messes up the ball movement.   

Edited by gear323, 16 March 2019 - 05:26 AM.

[Rawd]

For those that are using Jeremy's PinSim, what settings in VPX are you using for nudging the table with the built in accelerometer?   I've been trying to get this dialed in and below is what I have come up with so far: (I made my PinSim a little heaver and the length is longer than the standard so im thinking my settings may be a little too strong for the standard build) 

 

VPX Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge and DOF

 

Enable Nudge Filter: Check
Enable Analog Nudge: Check

Tilt Sensitivity: 47

X Axis X-Max 100 - X=Gain32
X Axis Y-Max 100 - X=Gain32

Deadzone 11%

 

Also when nudging the table past a certain percent the entire table and room all jerk around.  Anyone know if that can be disabled since that is a pretty bad experience in VR?  Is that maybe a script setting?

 

Edit: Looks like i kind of answered my own question. Under VPX Preferences -->  Video/Graphics options there is an option called "Visual Nudge Strenght". I set that to zero and that fixes the room shaking when nudging.   However now I can nudge a ball all i want since this seems to also disable TILT.  

 

I think you need MJR's Nudgeplugin.  Analog nudge, and a real tilt bob.  You also need to change your tilt key from T so that you dont get the Bangback nudge.   I will look further into this with VR.

Edited by Rawd, 16 March 2019 - 05:30 AM.

[gear323]

 

For those that are using Jeremy's PinSim, what settings in VPX are you using for nudging the table with the built in accelerometer?   I've been trying to get this dialed in and below is what I have come up with so far: (I made my PinSim a little heaver and the length is longer than the standard so im thinking my settings may be a little too strong for the standard build) 

 

VPX Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge and DOF

 

Enable Nudge Filter: Check
Enable Analog Nudge: Check

Tilt Sensitivity: 47

X Axis X-Max 100 - X=Gain32
X Axis Y-Max 100 - X=Gain32

Deadzone 11%

 

Also when nudging the table past a certain percent the entire table and room all jerk around.  Anyone know if that can be disabled since that is a pretty bad experience in VR?  Is that maybe a script setting?

 

Edit: Looks like i kind of answered my own question. Under VPX Preferences -->  Video/Graphics options there is an option called "Visual Nudge Strenght". I set that to zero and that fixes the room shaking when nudging.   However now I can nudge a ball all i want since this seems to also disable TILT.  

 

I think you need MJR's Nudgeplugin.  Analog nudge, and a real tilt bob.  You also need to change your tilt key from T so that you dont get the Bangback nudge.   I will look further into this with VR.

 

 

Cool thanks!   The accelerometer seems to work pretty well for the most part. Since it is Analog you can nudge lightly and the ball is only affected a small amount and when you hit it harder the ball is affected more depending on how much harder you hit it.  The only real  problem is the bangback nudge..  I would assume if Jeremy (Pinsim firmware) or VPX can just disable nudging down all together that would  fix the the issue for most of the time.  Nobody actually nudges in that direction or do they?  Basically pujlling the table towards the player.  I would think all that is needed is left right and forward and the analog angles in between. 

 

Maybe it can be dialed in better with the current VPX settings but the accellerometer on the PinSim works better on Pinball FX2 and FX3 for me than it does on VPX.  (actually it is just much more sensitive to the bangback of the analog than the other games. It seems Pinball FX3 has some nudge delay built in) 

 

 

Edit: My Pinsim is also on carpet and I'm guessing that is making the bangback much worse than if it was on a solid floor.   Time to move it to another room with hardwood floors to test.... 

 

The more I use this accelerometer it really seems like it is the way to go.  It just needs some software assistance. In VP it is very responsive.  The software just needs to only allow one nudge per half second or so  (so that it ignores the bangback nudge) or needs to just ignore nudges in the opposite direction of a nudge for a half second and it would work extremely well. Maybe in addition also always ignore nudges when pulling the table towards you (basicaly down on a analog stiick)

Edited by gear323, 16 March 2019 - 06:40 AM.

[Jeremy]

The more I use this accelerometer it really seems like it is the way to go.  It just needs some software assistance. In VP it is very responsive.  The software just needs to only allow one nudge per half second or so  (so that it ignores the bangback nudge) or needs to just ignore nudges in the opposite direction of a nudge for a half second and it would work extremely well. Maybe in addition also always ignore nudges when pulling the table towards you (basicaly down on a analog stiick)

 

Can you explain why you need to ignore bangback nudge? It seems natural for the table to swing back to the left after being nudged right, for instance. If you slap the left side of the cabinet when the ball is coming around the left orbit, you'd successfully knock the ball away from the wall to avoid the sling. If the table swung back to the left (which it normally does), that shouldn't affect the ball because it's not touching a wall or post anymore -- right? I'm obviously missing something.

[gear323]

 

The more I use this accelerometer it really seems like it is the way to go.  It just needs some software assistance. In VP it is very responsive.  The software just needs to only allow one nudge per half second or so  (so that it ignores the bangback nudge) or needs to just ignore nudges in the opposite direction of a nudge for a half second and it would work extremely well. Maybe in addition also always ignore nudges when pulling the table towards you (basicaly down on a analog stiick)

 

Can you explain why you need to ignore bangback nudge? It seems natural for the table to swing back to the left after being nudged right, for instance. If you slap the left side of the cabinet when the ball is coming around the left orbit, you'd successfully knock the ball away from the wall to avoid the sling. If the table swung back to the left (which it normally does), that shouldn't affect the ball because it's not touching a wall or post anymore -- right? I'm obviously missing something.

 

 

Hi Jeremy, 

 

Been testing this for the past 4 hours or so.  Here are some examples.  As you know, If you hook up an xbox gamepad and play Pinball FX2VR you can use the left analog stick to nudge the ball. Howerver if you press down on the left analog stick nothing happens at all.  Pinball FX2 VR does not register that down on the analog stick as anything at all.   When playing in VPX, down on the analog stick is registered. What happens on the PinSim in VPX is if you nudge forward the accelerometer registers the up movement but then also a down press on the analog axis as well. The ball then goes up from the nudge but then comes back down super fast or does not complete the natural physics of the up nudge and halfway through the movement it unnaturally comes down.

 

The same thing happens on left and right nudging as well. You nudge in one direction and the momemtem of the nudge gets canceled out halfway through by the automatic bangback of the nudge in the opposite direction and the ball moves very strangely first in the direction you nudged it and then in the opposite direction

 

You can set up your PinSim with the below settings and then use the Addams Family table to test and see.   

 

The other thing is this.   In VPX if you hook up an Xbox gamepad and hold in any direction on the left analog stick you will have full control of the ball.  You can just use the analog stick to play the entire game and direct the ball up ramps or whatever and never lose the ball.  In pinball FX2 for example, the game looks at how far you pressed the left analog stick in a direction and registers and nudge in that direction and strength to match. if you were to hold the analog stick in any direction it does nothing other than the initial nudge.  Since pressing down on the analog stick does nothing in Pinball FX2 you don't ever get that bangback in that direction.   Sometimes there is a little left/right bangback on FX2 but it is pretty rare.  It seems they have a delay so you can't nudge the ball over and over again very quickly which works well. 

 

When it comes down to it, It looks like the analog implementation in VPX is really the entire issue and not the PinSim firmware and should be fixed on the VPX side. It looks to me like VPX implementation of analog nudge really is just changing the table slope. This is why you can drive the ball all around the table with the left analog sick.  Also if you shoot a ball off of your flipper, you can just press the down analog and cancel out the ball movement mid shot and even more than cancel it, you can force it back down to the flippers quickly by holding down on the analog stick. 

 

VPX Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge and DOF

 

Enable Nudge Filter: Check

Enable Analog Nudge: Check

Tilt Sensitivity: 47

X Axis X-Max 100 - X=Gain32

X Axis Y-Max 100 - X=Gain32

Deadzone 11%

Edited by gear323, 16 March 2019 - 07:51 AM.

[Jeremy]

I understand what's happening, but why? Shouldn't nudges only affect the ball if it's touching a wall/rubber/post? There are few circumstances when nudging can be cancelled out at all in the real world, and that's how it should be in VP too, no? Is this is a bug with VP physics? I can think about filtering the data.

Edited by Jeremy, 16 March 2019 - 07:39 AM.

[gear323]

I understand what's happening, but why? Shouldn't nudges only affect the ball if it's touching a wall/rubber/post? There are few circumstances when nudging can be cancelled out at all in the real world, and that's how it should be in VP too, no? Is this is a bug with VP physics? I can think about filtering the data.

 

Well in real pinball you can stop a drain that is coming down the middle if you slide the table hard enough (easier on tables like T2 that have a nice strong gun launcher you can grab lol) . However, this analog implementation of nudge in VPX does not seem to care if the ball is on a wall or flipper etc, you can nudge it easily anywhere even when it is moving. Like I mentioned above, it looks like the nudge in VPX is really just changing the table slope in any direction for as long as you hold that analog position and you can do it at any time. 

 

Looks like this is not a Pinsim problem. VPX analog nudging really does not work that well at all with a gamepad either as you should not be able to drive the ball around the table like a car with the left analog stick lol.  From all the testing I've done however, in VPX the PinSim accelerometer can probably be made to work even better than it does in FX2VR (which is pretty good already) with some direct support from the game developers and in this case VPX.  The one nice thing about VPX analog nudging is how responsive it is which is basically instant. While it is pretty much unusable in its current implementation, that proves that it could be made to be responsive and probably work better than FX2 does with a software update.  In FX2 the nudging is much better and works as expected for the most part but there is a slight delay

 

If you play pinball FX2 with an XBOX gamepad you can really see how well their nudging works with it on the analog stick.  Then when you switch to VPX and use that same XBOX gamepad it is obvious were the issue is. There is probably a good chance that a gamepad analog stick was not the hardware VPX was even targeting to get to work with they implemented this analog nudging. 

Edited by gear323, 16 March 2019 - 08:31 AM.