918 replies to this topic

[Hos_Nos]

This is what I was waiting for.  Man you are fast Rav!!!

 

It's funny because I just got my singly PS3 Eye running fairly smooth (just had to uncheck processor affinity in future pinball).  Defintely going to try the kinect out tonight and see how it performs with 3 Points:

 

One question I have is with regards to my LCD screen position in my cabinet.  I built my cab a few years ago before we had cabinet style tables with emulated depth on the sides and back.  Most tables were flat so I opted to mount my LCD like a real playfiled (Horizontal and parallel to the cabinet bottom).  in other words my LCD is not flush with the glass.  Distance from the glass is a few inches in the front and grows as you reach the back of the cab,  So when I run most tables in BAM they have the depth effect on the sides that gets deeper in the back.  Looks a little odd in my cabinet.  Anyway, most FP tables have regular and cabinet-depth versions. Should I use regular or should I simply re-mount my LCD to be flush with the glass?   Thoughts??

 

Hope I made some sense and this isn't too confusing...LOL

You have to try adjust table scale/position/angle in "Table & Lighting" and find what best suits You.

 

You can try to set:

"scale" to make table little smaller than Your screen.(~0.9 ?) 

"angle" negative value (~ (-5)- (-10) deg) to make table background paraller to screen.

"translate" = + ~ 20-50. This will move "table" virtualy above screen.

 

This will work like objects popping out of screen in 3D movies. You have to remember, that some parts of "virtual table" will disappear at screen borders.

 

It will look like this:

 

Thanks for the prompt response Rav.  I will give this a go tonight and if all else fails I will simply re-mount my display to be flush with the glass:)

 

BTW,  regarding the various methods of head tracking would you mind listing them from best to worst?  Regardless of hardware needed I would like to have the best representation possible.

 

Thanks!!!

Jamie

[ravarcade]

BTW,  regarding the various methods of head tracking would you mind listing them from best to worst?  Regardless of hardware needed I would like to have the best representation possible.

 

 

Here is my evaluation of various tracking methods (best at start:

 

1. HT w/PS3Eyes:

+ Best posible accuracy. It is better than needed. Anything better will not make any diffrence.

+ Very low CPU usage.

+ This is only posible solution, to mount cams inside BackBox.

+ No need to any action afre computer reboot

+ No need to light player face (can work in nightmode)

- One drawback: it is realy hard to get good "fix cam" calibration.

 

2. WiiMotes:

+ Good accuracy (but in some case lack of accuracy is visible).

+ Very Very low CPU usage.

+ To too hard to calibrate cams (it is easy compared to HT w/PS3Eyes)

+ No need to light player face (can work in nightmode)

- If You mount WiiMotes in BackBox You will have very small freedom of movement for Player

- You have to "connect" WiiMotes after every computer restart

- If You want have good freedom of movement for Player You have to put cameras/wiimotes 1,8m (6 feet) away from player and each other

 

3. Kintect

+ 3D tracking, but accuracy is not good. If You stay 2m from Kinect and 1m from table, Head Tracking looks cool, but in normal player position You will see lack of accuracy (and lags)

+ Tracking accuracy is better than "Simple PS3Eye" or "Simple CAM"

+ Realy easy to setup, 

+ No action after reboot

+ Very good FOV.

+ No "night mode", You need light at face

- Lack of accuracy

- If You want put it on top of backbox, it will lost tracking then You look down.

 

For me Kinect is still only Head Tracking demo. If You don't have Kinect, BAM is not good reason to buy one.

 

4. Simple PS3Eye

+ Easy setup.

+ cheap.

- 2D (but still fun to use)

- Need good light at Player (but not as much like "Simple CAM")

 

5. Simple CAM

+ Easy setup

- Need good light at Player

[Hos_Nos]

BTW,  regarding the various methods of head tracking would you mind listing them from best to worst?  Regardless of hardware needed I would like to have the best representation possible.

 

 

Here is my evaluation of various tracking methods (best at start:

 

1. HT w/PS3Eyes:

+ Best posible accuracy. It is better than needed. Anything better will not make any diffrence.

+ Very low CPU usage.

+ This is only posible solution, to mount cams inside BackBox.

+ No need to any action afre computer reboot

+ No need to light player face (can work in nightmode)

- One drawback: it is realy hard to get good "fix cam" calibration.

 

2. WiiMotes:

+ Good accuracy (but in some case lack of accuracy is visible).

+ Very Very low CPU usage.

+ To too hard to calibrate cams (it is easy compared to HT w/PS3Eyes)

+ No need to light player face (can work in nightmode)

- If You mount WiiMotes in BackBox You will have very small freedom of movement for Player

- You have to "connect" WiiMotes after every computer restart

- If You want have good freedom of movement for Player You have to put cameras/wiimotes 1,8m (6 feet) away from player and each other

 

3. Kintect

+ 3D tracking, but accuracy is not good. If You stay 2m from Kinect and 1m from table, Head Tracking looks cool, but in normal player position You will see lack of accuracy (and lags)

+ Tracking accuracy is better than "Simple PS3Eye" or "Simple CAM"

+ Realy easy to setup, 

+ No action after reboot

+ Very good FOV.

+ No "night mode", You need light at face

- Lack of accuracy

- If You want put it on top of backbox, it will lost tracking then You look down.

 

For me Kinect is still only Head Tracking demo. If You don't have Kinect, BAM is not good reason to buy one.

 

4. Simple PS3Eye

+ Easy setup.

+ cheap.

- 2D (but still fun to use)

- Need good light at Player (but not as much like "Simple CAM")

 

5. Simple CAM

+ Easy setup

- Need good light at Player

 

Wow Rav, this is a fantastic description of all the modes.  THANK YOU!!!  Seeing that I have a Kinect I will try that out just so I can get a taste of the 3D tracking. 

However, I am sold on the HT w/PS3 Eyes.  I have one already and it's only $15 to buy a second one.  Looks like I will be making a calibration board after all

The toughest part for me will be sourcing the replacement filters for the PS3 Eyes.  Hopefully I can source them locally.

 

Cheers!!!

[ravarcade]

I added 2 movies:

 

BAM - Kinect plugin - "3 Points" setup.

 

And

 

BAM - HT w/PS3Eyes - Fix Cam - How to do. 

[freneticamnesic]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

Edited by freneticamnesic, 06 June 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[ravarcade]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

I was thinking about thins like this. But now i don't recomend this.

Kinect have very wide FOV. Only problem with it is "3 Points" and third points. It is sometimes to close to Kinect.

 

I work on diffrent "3 Points" procedure. On weeked mayby it will be done.

[Hos_Nos]

Well crap!  Looks as though Kinect SDK is for Windows 7 or later.  I am running my cab on Win XP

 

Looks like I will have to wait until I get my 2 x PS3 EYE's and calibrfation board up and running. 

 

Hey Rav,  are the lenses for the PS3 eyes something I can source at at a local camera or electronics store?  Do you have a part number I can use to give my local suppliers?

 

I think you had listed it somewhere but I can't see to find the post.  Sorry for all the questions!!!

 

Jamie

[Hos_Nos]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

 

 

Hey freneticamnesic,  I am curious about how you like the Kinect tracking.  Based on Rav's videos for the various methods (wii and Ht PS3 Eyes)  how do you feel the Kinect compares?

 

I will likely go with Rav's recommendation for 2 x HT PS3 Eyes becuase I am on Win XP but I do have some friends looking to build cabinets that have kinects already and they were asking me.

 

Thanks!

Jamie

[freneticamnesic]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

 

 

Hey freneticamnesic,  I am curious about how you like the Kinect tracking.  Based on Rav's videos for the various methods (wii and Ht PS3 Eyes)  how do you feel the Kinect compares?

 

I will likely go with Rav's recommendation for 2 x HT PS3 Eyes becuase I am on Win XP but I do have some friends looking to build cabinets that have kinects already and they were asking me.

 

Thanks!

Jamie

 

I don't have the PS3 camera so I can't compare, and I never did set up my wii remotes (can't find my BT dongle) but considering how easy it was to set up I am very happy with it. Just install the SDK and plug in the camera, no need to make an IR transmitter and figure out how to mount your wiimotes (and worry about the batteries dying) - it's really smooth, if you do like rav said and up the latency between 60 and 100ms.

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

I was thinking about thins like this. But now i don't recomend this.

Kinect have very wide FOV. Only problem with it is "3 Points" and third points. It is sometimes to close to Kinect.

 

I work on diffrent "3 Points" procedure. On weeked mayby it will be done.

 

That's what I have seen, it was hard to get it to focus on my face when I set up the third point. I ended up setting the Kinect further back on my table and moving my backglass out of the way. Once it locked on and I was able to set the 3 points, it worked perfect - I just need to find a better place to mount the Kinect.

[ravarcade]

Hey Rav,  are the lenses for the PS3 eyes something I can source at at a local camera or electronics store?  Do you have a part number I can use to give my local suppliers?

Here is post where i describe what i now use.

http://www.vpforums....=12#entry225445

 

I will only add 2 cents more:

Don't buy "sets" like my with many lens type. Best is 3.6mm:

http://peauproductio...&products_id=28

With bigger value (4.6mm, 6.0 mm) You get narrow FOV.

I tested 2.8 - it have very, very wide FOV, but i did not  get   good "FixCam" and it did not work well.

 

-------------------------

 

In 1-2 weeks i will get "cheap chinese version" and i will test it.

[Hos_Nos]

Hey Rav,  are the lenses for the PS3 eyes something I can source at at a local camera or electronics store?  Do you have a part number I can use to give my local suppliers?

Here is post where i describe what i now use.

http://www.vpforums....=12#entry225445

 

I will only add 2 cents more:

Don't buy "sets" like my with many lens type. Best is 3.6mm:

http://peauproductio...&products_id=28

With bigger value (4.6mm, 6.0 mm) You get narrow FOV.

I tested 2.8 - it have very, very wide FOV, but i did not  get   good "FixCam" and it did not work well.

 

-------------------------

 

In 1-2 weeks i will get "cheap chinese version" and i will test it.

 

Hi Rav,  actually I just picked up 2 older PS3 Eyes with the easy to remove filter.  So all I need is two 3.6mm IR Filters.  Looks like Peauproductions is gonna charge me $26 to ship two tiny $5 items!!! Was gonna make them myself out of a floppy disk.  Do you know if the quality is bad? I will buy the filters if need be but I thought I would ask.

[ravarcade]

Hey Rav,  are the lenses for the PS3 eyes something I can source at at a local camera or electronics store?  Do you have a part number I can use to give my local suppliers?

Here is post where i describe what i now use.

http://www.vpforums....=12#entry225445

 

I will only add 2 cents more:

Don't buy "sets" like my with many lens type. Best is 3.6mm:

http://peauproductio...&products_id=28

With bigger value (4.6mm, 6.0 mm) You get narrow FOV.

I tested 2.8 - it have very, very wide FOV, but i did not  get   good "FixCam" and it did not work well.

 

-------------------------

 

In 1-2 weeks i will get "cheap chinese version" and i will test it.

 

Hi Rav,  actually I just picked up 2 older PS3 Eyes with the easy to remove filter.  So all I need is two 3.6mm IR Filters.  Looks like Peauproductions is gonna charge me $26 to ship two tiny $5 items!!! Was gonna make them myself out of a floppy disk.  Do you know if the quality is bad? I will buy the filters if need be but I thought I would ask.

I know one user try to use floppy disc filter, but he switch it for real filters.

 

I don't know if floppy filters are "usable".

 

For quick test You can mount normal leses (without ir-filter) i see if BAM can detect dots.

[Hos_Nos]

I still have to make my calibration board first anyway,  Probably best just to order the proper filters as I want the best possible setup.

 

 

Thanks Rav!

[rockyrocket]

Not having any issues here with using floppys (apart from never seeing that 1.44megs of storage again).

[Hos_Nos]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

 

Also,  if you don't mind me asking, with your kinect what model of CPU are you running?

 

 

Not having any issues here with using floppys (apart from never seeing that 1.44megs of storage again).

 

 

 

Hey rockyrocket.  Did you put the floppy film behind the lens after taking out the IR Filter like in the video or did you fix it to the front of the camera?

 

Thanks!

Edited by Hos_Nos, 07 June 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[rockyrocket]

Hey rockyrocket.  Did you put the floppy film behind the lens after taking out the IR Filter like in the video or did you fix it to the front of the camera?

Behind, just like the video - the plastic is much harder than it seems on screen so the finished items looked a bit of a hatchet job but still worked.

I figure if you are planning to maybe buy lenses anyway then whats the worst that can happen?.

[freneticamnesic]

Did not even notice you now include Kinect support, this is great!

 

Kinect is very smooth when you adjust latency settings, my setup is too close though. I have to get one of those "small room" adapters to adjust the depth that the kinect can use, and then this will work perfectly. Great work, thank you so much

 

http://dx.com/p/xbox...er-black-149083

 

Also,  if you don't mind me asking, with your kinect what model of CPU are you running?

 

My CPU is a first gen i7

[ravarcade]

BAM Update!

 

http://ravarcade.pl/...BAM_v0.8-32.ZIP

 

Updates in HT w/PS3Eyes plugin:

- Changed default "fix cam" distortions from "none" to "my".

- Changed settings of calibration procedure "Fix Cam"

- Added submenu "More options" ("plugin: HT w/PS3Eyes" -> "calibration" -> "More options")

- there is new file in plugins folder: "HT-PS3Eyes-FixCamExport.dat". It contains save setting for "fix cams".

 

 

"More options" menu:

 

"Cam" - You can selet on which cam You work (Left / Right)

"Load" - every time You change this option, plugin will load "fix cam" param to menu:

  current - setting of Fix Cam You use now

  Last modified - If You manualy modifi values and change again "Load" for example to "current", before loading of params, change values are stored in "Last modified"

  Second Cam - If YOu want copy values from one cam to another, you can use this option

  Last Saved - Every time You "save" setting (last option in this menu) values are: 1. set as fix cam for selected Cam. 2. Save to disk.

  ravarcade 3.6mm - my settings.

 

"Size" , "k1", "k2", "k3" - Fix Cam lens params. This values are hard to describe, k1,2,3 - are values from "polynomial" and describe lens curve. 

 

Command "Reset k" will set all k1-3 to 0.

 

Command "Save" set values for lens and save it to file.

 

If You try to manipulete this values, You will see "real time" efects on cam view.

Then You change values, You have to "save" it. If You leave menu without saving, there will be no changes in "fix cam".

After You save "fix cam" params You have to do normal "stere calibration". (If You don't do it, these new values will not be used, You will only see how they look in cam view).

 

If You use modified manualy "fix cam" params plugin will set "Fix Cam Quality" to 1.0. Don't worry about this value. It is only valid if You use own "Fix Cam".

 

You can shere "HT-PS3Eyes-FixCamExport.data" file. From this file "FixCam" params can be loaded by others. (or enterd manualy).

------------------------

Why i have made this options?

1. There is realy hard to do good "Fix Cam".

 

2. Fix Cam created for one cam, usly work very well with other. For example my values created with replaced lenses work quite well with orginall PS3Eye lenses. It is strange, it should not work, but it does .

 

3. Here is very big chance, than if You do only normal stereo calibration (without makeing own "Fix Cam") head tracking will work very well.

 

4. Try to do test like my on video:

 

Notice

If You use other lenses than my, and You have make better "Fix Cam" calibration, please send it to me (with If of wath lenses You use). I will add it to "Load" list.

 

 

------------------------

 

other updates in BAM:

- If any plugin will lost tracking for 1 sec, now BAM should switch to default cam position (from Static Cam).

 

 

[dejanne]

which video card and other parts of pc would you recommend for playing future pinball with bam?

 

 

[ClarkKent]

Just a quick question: What is "HT w/PS3Eyes"? What's the "HT"? Please explain in detail.

 

Thanx!