3889 replies to this topic

[toxie]

To explain a bit more on this: Basically enabling "Alternate Depth Buffer processing" will enable the "old" rendering like before we fixed the ambient occlusion and 3D stereo processing for intel and amd systems (as on some systems the "new" rendering does not work due to it being a bit on the unofficial side of the DX9 spec).
In addition to enabling this alternate mode, -some- systems may also need to disable ambient occlusion completely again in the video settings.

For NVIDIA owners, enabling the "Alternate Depth Buffer processing" can always be done, no matter what.
Intel and AMD owners should try without enabling it, and only if an error message tells you so (or if you get other errors, in that case please tell us the error), then please enable it.

[gStAv]

is sit still recommend to use the AERO theam fix with this alternative depth buffer?

would be great to have the stutterless tables but with even more responsive flippers if possible, kind of best of both worlds.

 

Sorry if what you mentioned have nothing to do with this *lol*

[toxie]

it indeed has nothing to do with it.
for the lag vs nolag/tear vs notear problem there is no solution, as its a windows thing. the only way around it would be to have a real fullscreen render again, but this is currently not feasible (for example due to VPM and B2S and other details).

[ClarkKent]

Does the new buffer has any other positive effects on a Nvidia system (no 3d here) or can the alternative (old) buffer be used without missing any new features?

[TedB]

"Disable static / dynamic" solved the garbled graphics issue for my GTX 550 ti with old driver. Tried some other settings as well and got some serious errors that forced me to restart. Everything seems to be fine again now though. Will pay some more attention to the error message (a fatal cpp error)  if it happens again. 

[toxie]

Does the new buffer has any other positive effects on a Nvidia system (no 3d here) or can the alternative (old) buffer be used without missing any new features?

 

On NVIDIA both things should work the same (usually), also performance should be the same.

[Ben Logan]

As far as ball stutter goes, I can't believe the positive difference the following made for me with my GTX750ti:

 

* In NVIDIA graphics card settings change vertical sync to ADAPTIVE

* In VP10 Video Options, set FPS limiter/Vsync to 60

 

World of difference! I was getting tons of ball stutter before making these changes. So much so, that sensitive soul I am, I was getting a bit motion sick watching the ball. With these settings, it's almost as smooth as VP9. Relieved!

 

[BananaBoat]

As far as ball stutter goes, I can't believe the positive difference the following made for me with my GTX750ti:
 
* In NVIDIA graphics card settings change vertical sync to ADAPTIVE
* In VP10 Video Options, set FPS limiter/Vsync to 60
 
World of difference! I was getting tons of ball stutter before making these changes. So much so, that sensitive soul I am, I was getting a bit motion sick watching the ball. With these settings, it's almost as smooth as VP9. Relieved!
 

Ok, I will have to test this out tonight. Thanks for the information.

[jimmyfingers]

As far as ball stutter goes, I can't believe the positive difference the following made for me with my GTX750ti:

 

* In NVIDIA graphics card settings change vertical sync to ADAPTIVE

* In VP10 Video Options, set FPS limiter/Vsync to 60

 

World of difference! I was getting tons of ball stutter before making these changes. So much so, that sensitive soul I am, I was getting a bit motion sick watching the ball. With these settings, it's almost as smooth as VP9. Relieved!

 

Can you also add whether you're disabling Desktop Composition / Aero or allowing it in your above configuration / reported findings?

 

Also, if you do not use Aero / set compatibility on the .exe to Disable Desktop Composition and use the new settings, keep an eye out for periodic ball "surges", as it's not quite like a consistent ball stutter, but I've found on all systems I've tested that unless Aero is on / active, then setting either VP vsync / FPS limiter to 1 (for invoking actual vsync with monitor refresh rate) or setting at fixed 60, as you have done, still gives moments during game play of the ball noticeably "surging"  / "tracing" a bit (maybe once or twice a minute but can go longer before it's observed depending on what the ball is doing and the speed of it at the time of the occurrence).  Still it is like / describable as ball stutter a bit in general for that moment at least I would say, but it can be buttery smooth for most of the time, then these shorter duration events occur, then it's back to buttery smooth - this effect and particular manifestation can make conclusions and observations imprecise.  

 

This type of temporary switch from buttery smooth to mini staggering is still very much an effect / issue for me personally that takes me out of the illusion / simulation and although it's not consistent ball stutter, it can almost be worse because of the contrast from smooth to stutter stepped for a second or two.  It's not something easy to demonstrate or capture either, but once you've seen it and confirmed it's regularly occurring (not a random glitch because of some background system event), you can't stop seeing it.  Bit of a shame otherwise as it can look great and smooth for most of the time with Aero off / Desktop Composition disabled and most importantly that facilitates less flipper lag.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 09 November 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[Ben Logan]

I've got Aero enabled and FPS limiter set to 0. Anything is better than the amount of stutter I was getting previously. I've only been fooling around with these new setting for the past twenty minutes or so, so I haven't noticed micro-stutter yet, thankfully. It may be present, but just haven't experienced it. I'll let you know, jimmyfingers. I think desktop comp is enabled, too. I forget where to look for that, but remember it being checked last time I looked.

[BananaBoat]

Yea so seems I'm not alone. Thanks guys for chiming in with your findings, hopefully dev team can look into more as to me this is more important than the focus on graphics.

[jimmyfingers]

I've got Aero enabled and FPS limiter set to 0. Anything is better than the amount of stutter I was getting previously. I've only been fooling around with these new setting for the past twenty minutes or so, so I haven't noticed micro-stutter yet, thankfully. It may be present, but just haven't experienced it. I'll let you know, jimmyfingers. I think desktop comp is enabled, too. I forget where to look for that, but remember it being checked last time I looked.

If you've got Aero enabled and are not disabling Desktop Composition via the Compatibility tab of the .exe's Properties, then you shouldn't have to set the vsync setting in the nVidia control panel to anything special and be able to just leave it at the default ("Use the 3D application setting") then set VP's vsync / FPS limiter to "1" and that should get you the same result of buttery smooth play with no hiccups / surges ever.  However, the flippers are more responsive / less lag when Aero is not active / Desktop Composition Disabled (they're essentially the same thing and just different areas to disable it globally or per program and different descriptions for the same net effect going on with Windows drawing screen graphics).  So, it's a trade-off at this point. 

 

When you get a chance Ben, try the settings I suggest above and I bet you'll get the same experience as to what you're currently getting / testing.  I've always found setting VP's vsync / FPS limiter at 1 to be solid, but only when the Aero aspect is set accordingly (on) though it is slightly less than desirable for flipper lag.  I use a 120Hz monitor on my mini-cab, however, which mitigates flipper lag (so it is not as impactful using the Aero-VP-ball fluidity approach) as frames are being drawn faster / more per second which effectively improves input delay / lag.  

[jimmyfingers]

Yea so seems I'm not alone. Thanks guys for chiming in with your findings, hopefully dev team can look into more as to me this is more important than the focus on graphics.

If you're already using Aero BananaBoat, then you should be able to configure / have a stutter free solution that won't change anything then what you're currently used to with respect to any introduced / new flipper lag.  Assuming you are on Windows 7, if you don't purposely turn off Aero / turn on Windows classic themes / disable Desktop Composition in the .exe or through Advanced Performance Settings for Windows>Visual Effects Tab, then just set your video card vsync to it's default and use VP's vsync / FPS option and set it to 1 (make sure it's consistent between your global preferences or at least override it on the table options with "1" in the appropriate field).  On all systems I have tried, for both PhysMOD and VPX, this has resulted in buttery smooth play.  The only thing that has come up recently is that some slight flipper lag is present with this scenario.  But, if you have already been working and content with Aero effectively being on, then you shouldn't notice a change to your flipper response / experience and that particular VP vsync set to 1 and a standard 60hz TV or monitor (works fine for 120hz monitor as well) should get you where you would like to be as far as eliminating stutter.  

[BananaBoat]

Thanks, i will give it a go tonight and report back. Appreciate the info.

[Ben Logan]

Thanks, jimmyfingers. I'm looking forward to experimenting more wth your suggestions in mind tomorrow. I appreciate your advice and experience. For now, I'm totally stoked to learn that messing around with setting can make a MAJOR difference in fluidity of ball movement and overall realism. Without guys like you sharing their settings, I'd have thought, "Bummer - my current setup can't run VP10."

For anyone struggling with dissatisfying results, I'd advise -- keep reading and playing around with settings. Indulge yourself with an afternoon of experimentation and you'll probably find this platform is so brilliantly conceived that it'll meet your machine's needs if you're willing to mess around a bit.

[hauntfreaks]

@jimmyfingers... I use all those same setting you mentioned, except for I set the limiter in the game to "0" , because if I run it on "1" I get random shutter

 

as odd as this might sound, I found the table that beats the shit out of my machine most is Frens VPX "Fast Draw" ...so when testing settings I use that and setting to "0" gives me shutter free play... I guess there are some basic settings?, but everyone setups will differ??

[jimmyfingers]

@jimmyfingers... I use all those same setting you mentioned, except for I set the limiter in the game to "0" , because if I run it on "1" I get random shutter

 

as odd as this might sound, I found the table that beats the shit out of my machine most is Frens VPX "Fast Draw" ...so when testing settings I use that and setting to "0" gives me shutter free play... I guess there are some basic settings?, but everyone setups will differ??

Have you checked that when you set VP's vsync to 1 that it actually is syncing correctly using the FPS / F11 monitor tool?  I've found that at times stutter, although less the random kind, was easily explainable, when using the F11 and witnessing that the FPS was not actually at the 60 hz (or 120hz on my mini-cab) that the 1 setting should be making it.  Also, are you on Windows 64-bit as both my primary systems (Dev. and mini-cab) are Windows 32-bit.  

[toxie]

thats unfortunately why we still offer that many settings..  :/

the myriad of different OSs, gfx cards and CPUs shows the need that we still cannot determine things automatically.

[mpad]

I think the focus should lay more on the gfx cards driver settings, as these usually make a huge difference for me, both quality and performance.

[kore64]

So I have an issue now on my crappy work laptop with rev 2360. Previous versions worked, but now I keep getting a few errors about AO and then it crashes. It works fine on my cab with a nvidia chipset, but does not work on my laptop anymore with the intel HD 4000 graphics card. I dont see any options about AO in the graphics properties of the card itself, so I am a little miffed if this will even work again on this computer.

 

 

Attached Files

•  2015-11-09 07_46_01-Visual Pinball.png   41.47KB   15 downloads
•  2015-11-09 07_46_42-Visual Pinball - AFM beta_.png   35.45KB   15 downloads
•  2015-11-09 07_46_54-Visual Pinball - AFM beta_.png   24.68KB   15 downloads