813 replies to this topic

[freezy]

@CameronMcGehee How did you get those numbers? Did you time it? How?

 

I mean, a frame on 60Hz monitor lasts 16.6ms. Most of the time, input is captured in one frame and processed in the next. So that's 16-32ms lag per default. I wonder how how you could measure let alone distinguish between 1-3ms and 10ms.

[Slydog43]

I think he is talking about the numbers you see when hitting F11 and pressing the left flipper button.

[freezy]

@Slydog43: Gotcha, thanks.

 

@Lynny: I've pushed a fix that solves the timer problem (and other elements not being loaded, and thus not exported). ACDC I couldn't export because of a corruption error, will look into that. Which version did you use that worked? I can also confirm the "black", looks like all textures are exported as black, d'oh! This used to work I think, will look into that as well. I'll keep you posted!

[dcbenji]

I'm wondering why we would want to import the table back to VPX since the whole point of VPE (I thought) was to take advantage of a new rendering engine in the Unity environment?

[freezy]

It is, but Unity is also an awesome editor, which authors could already use and familiarize with while still producing VPX tables.

[dcbenji]

It is, but Unity is also an awesome editor, which authors could already use and familiarize with while still producing VPX tables.

 

I see, they could make a Unity version with unity lights and extra material features perhaps and then export an VPX version. Or just being able to author for VPX within a proper 3D editing environment would be great. 

[toxie]

I also still think this is a great idea, especially for users of low/mid end hardware (which one should not underestimate, cause i still think the majority of VPX users are not high end PC/cab owners, but plain DT players incl. laptops, etc).

 

Then over time this will of course not hold up anymore and will be difficult to maintain on both ends, but as a start it sounds like a good plan.

[CameronMcGehee]

@CameronMcGehee How did you get those numbers? Did you time it? How?

 

I mean, a frame on 60Hz monitor lasts 16.6ms. Most of the time, input is captured in one frame and processed in the next. So that's 16-32ms lag per default. I wonder how how you could measure let alone distinguish between 1-3ms and 10ms.

 

I don't care what people say about a frame lasting so and so long...I can tell you from experience that you can most definitely feel a difference between 3ms and 20. Especially because I think most people would love to eventually upgrade to 4k 120/144hz whenever the monitors become cheaper.

 

The TV I have in my cab right now (Sony x800H) has a measured input lag of around 9-11ms. Doubling that with software doesn't sound fun to me. When I turn on fastflips, the flippers are percievably immediate when I press the buttons. I just want to make sure that VPE will be able to do the same. That's all!

Edited by CameronMcGehee, 09 July 2020 - 04:07 PM.

[Rajo Joey]

@CameronMcGehee How did you get those numbers? Did you time it? How?
 
I mean, a frame on 60Hz monitor lasts 16.6ms. Most of the time, input is captured in one frame and processed in the next. So that's 16-32ms lag per default. I wonder how how you could measure let alone distinguish between 1-3ms and 10ms.

 
I don't care what people say about a frame lasting so and so long...I can tell you from experience that you can most definitely feel a difference between 3ms and 20. Especially because I think most people would love to eventually upgrade to 4k 120/144hz whenever the monitors become cheaper.
 
The TV I have in my cab right now (Sony x800H) has a measured input lag of around 9-11ms. Doubling that with software doesn't sound fun to me. When I turn on fastflips, the flippers are percievably immediate when I press the buttons. I just want to make sure that VPE will be able to do the same. That's all!

I can't confirm this. My flipper response is always great; even without fastflips. I don't feel a difference between 17ms or 1ms in the display.

[Lynny]

@Freezy

Thats awesome, man. I look forward to testing some more. I've gotten into the habit of checking for updates with a git pull. I get excited every time i see updates..lol...what a geek, i know..

I'll keep ya posted.

Edited by Lynny, 09 July 2020 - 05:35 PM.

[freezy]

@CameronMcGehee If your worries are that we will ignore input latency then I can assure you that we don't. But since we don't control the entire game loop (because, Unity), our mileage may vary.

[freezy]

@Lynny: Textures are fixed, thanks to @Vroonsh for debugging this. There's just a material bug that I need to fix (opacity isn't correctly written).

[CameronMcGehee]

 

 

@CameronMcGehee How did you get those numbers? Did you time it? How?
 
I mean, a frame on 60Hz monitor lasts 16.6ms. Most of the time, input is captured in one frame and processed in the next. So that's 16-32ms lag per default. I wonder how how you could measure let alone distinguish between 1-3ms and 10ms.

 
I don't care what people say about a frame lasting so and so long...I can tell you from experience that you can most definitely feel a difference between 3ms and 20. Especially because I think most people would love to eventually upgrade to 4k 120/144hz whenever the monitors become cheaper.
 
The TV I have in my cab right now (Sony x800H) has a measured input lag of around 9-11ms. Doubling that with software doesn't sound fun to me. When I turn on fastflips, the flippers are percievably immediate when I press the buttons. I just want to make sure that VPE will be able to do the same. That's all!

I can't confirm this. My flipper response is always great; even without fastflips. I don't feel a difference between 17ms or 1ms in the display.

 

May depend on your display as well. If your display has perceivable input lag to begin with it won't make a difference. but as someone who frequently goes back and fourth from my real machines and my virtual one, I like having the flippers actually flip on time.

 

Anyways I am not going to keep going on about flipper lag...there are many other things tht are more inportant in this process. I just simply was asking to make sure that lag was in the devs agenda. I played some other person's Unity pinball recreations of fish tales and there was a lot of lag, and so I was curious if that would happen here.

 

 

@CameronMcGehee If your worries are that we will ignore input latency then I can assure you that we don't. But since we don't control the entire game loop (because, Unity), our mileage may vary.

 

Good to know. Thanks!

[dcbenji]

I messed around with Unity assets a few years ago and there was a feature where you could bake the Global Illumination into the scene and then your character (for example) could walk around in that nice looking scene and it could cast a shadow onto it, but the seemingly dynamic lighting was baked onto all the static elements. Anyway, even if the intention was to make a table in VPE just for export back to VPX, being able to bake the global illumination in the textures with the click of a button would be pretty awesome and save all the weird back and forth smoke and mirrors stuff that has to be done between VPX and blender to achieve a similar look. to be able to assign all of your lights to a 'general illumination' group and when baking GI, bake out two version, one for light off, one for light on by turning off and on the group etc...you see where I'm going with this . Many pre-existing tables could have an near instant lighting 'upgrade' simply by roundtripping their assets through this environment pass/bake in unity. Well anyway its easier to imagine than implement and thats all i got haha

[freezy]

I played some other person's Unity pinball recreations of fish tales and there was a lot of lag, and so I was curious if that would happen here.

 

 

 

Yeah that was probably Shaderbyte's recreation. He did a bunch of tables. I've played them too and while they look fantastic I agree that the flipper lag is terrible. The main problem was that the flippers in his recreations were entirely driven by VPM, and the comm between Unity and VPM wasn't too good. We can address this in a bunch of ways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much now.

[TerryRed]

The latest progress videos look great guys.

 

I have one request that is for the good of all mankind.

 

PLEASE make it so that chromatic aberration is not possible with vpe!

 

It is evil...horrible... hated by gamers around the world, and it needs to be shot and pissed on. Why AAA game devs include it on any game is beyond me. Its provides nothing beneficial and simply makes anything look like crap. It needs to be made illegal. Burn it with fire... drown it in water...then burn it again. I hate it

 

Thanks.

Edited by TerryRed, 15 July 2020 - 04:53 PM.

[Lynny]

So, Terry...what you are saying is...   lolol..

Its there, as an option, but it "looks" like it can be ON or OFF....so, theres a bit of hope for ya...

 

https://docs.unity3d...Aberration.html

[freezy]

@TerryRed b..but what if we want to do a Cyberpunk version of VPE!?

[TerryRed]

Only on the video backglass / DMD... like on TNA (the real pin). That is fine).

 

If the option to turn it off completely is always there and it's not forced on... I'm happy.

Edited by TerryRed, 15 July 2020 - 07:13 PM.

[freezy]

Just messing with ya, tbh I don't see any reason why we would add that