1002 replies to this topic

[naboodiver]

Ok i fixed stttn and cftbl thnx for these fixes.

I found another problem in black rose hires maybe someone can help?
When i shoot the left ramp the ball is like blocked in the middle and does not go further.



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I have seen this behavior on Black Rose prior to any physics changes..     Fixed it by inserting a control point half way up the ramp.    This was detailed in a Black Rose thread but I can't find it.    That may be the problem or may not be.

[mukuste]

Also make sure that you are running physmod2, there was an old ramp bug (already in VP9) which is still in physmod but fixed in physmod2.

[xzotic]

Also make sure that you are running physmod2, there was an old ramp bug (already in VP9) which is still in physmod but fixed in physmod2.

 

Did Physmod2 fix the stationary spinning ball issue? I thought I had already downloaded the 2nd physmod version but noticed the balls still spinning while stationary?

[slashbot]

Ok i fixed stttn and cftbl thnx for these fixes.

I found another problem in black rose hires maybe someone can help?
When i shoot the left ramp the ball is like blocked in the middle and does not go further.

I cannot reproduce this. My flipper settings are 1.0/2400 on this table.

I exported your physics file from the blackrose table you sendme and imported it into my blackrose table.



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[mukuste]

Did Physmod2 fix the stationary spinning ball issue? I thought I had already downloaded the 2nd physmod version but noticed the balls still spinning while stationary?

 

 

If it's not in the changelog in the release post, then it's generally not fixed. I try to mention all the changes I make there.

 

 

slashbot: have you tried with the physmod2 version to see if the problem goes away? It's linked in the original post.

Edited by mukuste, 22 April 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[ckovanda]

The weird behaviour on the Delta Quadrant ramp in STTNG seems to be caused by the diverter on top of the ramp. It's a tiny flipper really and when it should divert the ball to the wire ramp, it often whacks the ball seriously hard and it can end up anywhere.

It is easy to correct:

the name is"TopDiverter".

change Mass to "1".

change Strength to "2500".

 

That worked fine in the few test games I played. YMMV

 

That change worked for me, but there was another hitch...

 

are you noticing that the rightmost ball lock lane on STTNG wont allow the ball to go through?  i'm wondering if it's the wire ramp above it is too low?  or could it be some script interfering?  at one point a ball went up there and actually got stuck

[slashbot]

 

Did Physmod2 fix the stationary spinning ball issue? I thought I had already downloaded the 2nd physmod version but noticed the balls still spinning while stationary?

 

 

If it's not in the changelog in the release post, then it's generally not fixed. I try to mention all the changes I make there.

 

 

slashbot: have you tried with the physmod2 version to see if the problem goes away? It's linked in the original post.

 

Mukuste,

 

Problem with Black Rose ramp is solved, i use the table BigBoss send me (Thanks a lot BigBoss)  and now the ramp works.

Today i fixed Cacatus Canyon (kickers,slingshots and flipper settings) and now working on Medival Madness FOM mod but this one is not finished yet  (testing right ramp change,...).

Thanks for the Wiki u made i'll try to fix the lamps on the Atlantis table tommorow and see if it works (Transparency color).

[BuckoBundy]

 

The weird behaviour on the Delta Quadrant ramp in STTNG seems to be caused by the diverter on top of the ramp. It's a tiny flipper really and when it should divert the ball to the wire ramp, it often whacks the ball seriously hard and it can end up anywhere.

It is easy to correct:

the name is"TopDiverter".

change Mass to "1".

change Strength to "2500".

 

That worked fine in the few test games I played. YMMV

 

That change worked for me, but there was another hitch...

 

are you noticing that the rightmost ball lock lane on STTNG wont allow the ball to go through?  i'm wondering if it's the wire ramp above it is too low?  or could it be some script interfering?  at one point a ball went up there and actually got stuck

 

 

Yeah.. don't get me started

http://monosnap.com/...wERScHgwElaT4F#  --> that should look familiar.

 

I have no idea what is causing that. The ball goes through just fine on my test table. Maybe if I can find the time I will look into it more but today I'm actually looking at referencing objects by string in an attempt to simplify the lamp fade code...

 

.. ok I am rambling. time for bed

[slashbot]

I exchanged some physicmod tables with bigboss and all the tables i load dont start.No error messagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsmzqXfGD8I got the roms so thats not the problemchecked the ntfs permissions all seems ok.Tried to run as administratorTried to save the table with another nameUac is disabledTried different vp versions tables are loading in vp921 but not in physicsmod2Anyone could help?Edit:Tested on my 2th pc and there it works, so it must be something non vp releated.Ill let you know if i figured it out what the problem.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Problems solved must be some kind of bug in physicsmod2?
I imported a physics set under the global physics options, now all tables bigboss send me are working.


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[BigBoss]

All my tables implement a global physics override of set 1 in the backdrop section. So importing a set probably fixed it.

[ClarkKent]

If you are watching this video from the latest Pro Pinball beta from 0:14 to 0:17 you can see that the ball bounces back on a wire ramp when it reaches the end/a rubber stopper. That ultra realistic behavior is totally missing at the moment. It is clearly visible in e.g. CV (when a ball is locked) or RS (rolling down the wire gates and reaching th rubber stopper). Do you think you can do something about that?

 

[unclewilly]

That's not the physics, that is how the authors create the ramp ends.
A lot of authors will put a trigger at the end of the ramp to stop the ball when all that is necessary is a wall, which will produce the results you are looking for with the bounce back.

The issue is you loose the ball drop sound as most authors also use that trigger for the ball drop sound.

[krille81]

I have tuned the star wars tabe so that will feel like the real one. I can add the parameters later. The new physic mod is awsoome! Thank you best muskute!


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[perplexicon]

That's not the physics, that is how the authors create the ramp ends.
A lot of authors will put a trigger at the end of the ramp to stop the ball when all that is necessary is a wall, which will produce the results you are looking for with the bounce back.

The issue is you loose the ball drop sound as most authors also use that trigger for the ball drop sound.

 

Sounds like a good reason to tie in ball collision sounds to the ball physics

Edited by perplexicon, 23 April 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[mukuste]

Yeah UW is right, that is totally doable with current (even old) physics. It's just a pretty rare setup, usually you have a hole at the end of a ramp, so no bounce back happens (and, as UW said, usually the drop is scripted, though it needn't be with the new physics). Off hand I can't remember any real-world pinball table where this happens, though I'm sure there are some.

[ClarkKent]

Even if there is a hole at the end of a ramp - the hole is just a little bit larger than the ball itself so the ball wobbles a little bit before falling down. I wonder if such "realism" could be added to the program?

[melon]

As UW said, many of us use a trigger to be able to play the drop sound, so we also need to stop the ball.

[ckovanda]

I just spent last night playing with updating a few tables, T2 chrome, IJ, STTNG, and Melon's beta TZ and I'm having so much fun it's amazing.  even with my limited abillity to mess around with the tables, I'm having huge success in the gameplay feel of the tables.  they're not perfect, and on some I wonder if there's subtle changes I can make to the engles of the flippers.  but they really bring me back to playing those real tables and being able to call your shots.  On indiana jones i'm constantly hittling the little bumpers to the left and right edges of the two ramps and I don't know if that's my own aiming issue, or a flipper power or angle issue.  either way I don't care.  the feel is so good that I feel like *I* can adjust my playing rather than chalking it up to a limited system.

 

I was super excited for the DX9 build, but now I feel like all effort should be immediately diverted to converting all the tables into physmod tables

 

some tips for people trying to tweak their own tables.  if you have any diverter gates in the table, be sure to give them mass and power, similar to your flippers.  I found if you don't, they ball will often go through them and disappear, forcing a restart.

 

Thanks again, Mukuste, you've seriously advanced this hobby immeasurably.

[kiwi]

A wall too elastic at the end of the ramp due to a strange fall of the ball,
when the ball drops, goes from the opposite side of the wall that stops, not to the bottom of the table.

 

Max

[lio]

I just read through your "Table Upgrade Guide for DX9" guide - nice collection of valuable information! I really wonder how you manage to create all these things within a 24 hour day :-)

 

I'm not sure if I put too much literal meaning into the names of the physics properties as the different values seems to affect the proper real world counterparts but a few things keep bothering me about these names/values:

 

I'm no expert on how exactly to tweak real work flippers and I hope you don't take any of these comments in the wrong way but these are my thoughts:

(Overview for reference: http://www.pinballli...talog&parent=51 / http://homepinballre...pperrepair.html )

(I remember Zaphod had written up a very lengthy post once explaining things in epic detail considering heating up of coils and all, so if someone can find that post again...)

 

"Mass" setting:

Flipper bats are pretty light-weight (just the the actual bat itself is certainly lighter than a pinball - together with the metal rod that is attached to it it might weigh about the same as a ball but the weight is distributed very unevenly).

In reality you obviously don't make the bats heavier to affect their interaction with the ball - to make flippers stronger/faster you can basically only:

(-replace worn parts)

-Replace the coil that drives the flipper with one that has more or less (magnetic) force to pull in the metal rod of the plunger and link assembly into the coil shaft which is translated into the rotational motion of the flipper bat.

-Replace nylon with brass coil sleeves or vice versa (even though I don't know how exactly the material choice influences gameplay)

More thoughts: 

-How much of a noticeable hit the bat takes in "end position" from an incoming ball depends on the strength of the lower power coil that takes over once the end-of-stroke-switch has been triggered (even though different manufacturers handle this differently)

-A more light weight bat (if in reality there would be any real weight difference) would not move slower with a ball on it than a heavier one in my feeble physics understanding.

 

-"Return Strength Ratio" setting:

In my opinion this should not be tied to the coil strength as in reality it is just gravity along the playfield slope and a return spring that pushes/pulls (depending on manufacturer) the flipper back into its' start position.

So in reality you could insert a stronger and/or longer/shorter spring for more return speed/force regardless of the coil force.

Edited by lio, 23 April 2014 - 07:01 PM.