4027 replies to this topic

[fripounet]

That's weird...I think I have to handle the layer sorting differently...

 

rather abandon this layer management (generating more problem than it solves), or offer the possibility of an alternative (in preferences) ;  10.6 management, largely sufficient to manage a pinball scene, and much more comfortable and much more stable.

 

10.7 was created to generate more clicks for vpforums (10.7 and 10.6 incompatible) ?  it's pure marketing

Edited by fripounet, 05 September 2021 - 05:05 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

That's weird...I think I have to handle the layer sorting differently...

 

 

For the bug on the layers, it would be useful to warn people who download and use the version: with an info next to the download link?

 

 

It is beta, it already goes without saying that there be issues.
As a player though, it is pretty issueless

 

 

That's weird...I think I have to handle the layer sorting differently...

 

rather abandon this layer management (generating more problem than it solves), or offer the possibility of an alternative (in preferences) ;  10.6 management, largely sufficient to manage a pinball scene, and much more comfortable and much more stable.

 

10.7 was created to generate more clicks for vpforums (10.7 and 10.6 incompatible) ?  it's pure marketing

 

 

The 1st part i 100% disagree, 10.6 layers are inadequate, i do not have one single table that fits in the constraints of 10.6's layering system

For the 2nd part, the comment is asinine
If you think Toxi and Fuzzel are doing this for forums clicks or something, your head just isnt screwed on straight

[wiesshund]

 

That's weird...I think I have to handle the layer sorting differently...

 

Could you, if not busy, clarify what you mean by table sorting?

 

Are you referring to an ability to manually change the order the layers are displayed in?
While a neat feature, and one i would definitely use, if making it work right holds you up on other things that could get you to release, if could always be re-visited later
i dont mind scrolling through the layer list, because after a while i have kind of already memorized them anyways.

 

On the other hand, if you mean something entirely different, i will just be over in this corner here busy shutting up.

[fuzzel]

I didn't say anything about table sorting. I'm talking about sorting of layers and the elements in the layers dialog.
If you can drag& drop elements and layers the layout should also be saved shouldn't it?

[wiesshund]

I didn't say anything about table sorting. I'm talking about sorting of layers and the elements in the layers dialog.
If you can drag& drop elements and layers the layout should also be saved shouldn't it?

 

I mean layer sorting

 

If i drag N drop layers?

drag and drop to where?

if you mean change there order, it would be kind of nice, but not necessary in the short term

it would be something you could slate for a post release update or something

10.7 has not done it up to now, and i can not say it was a feature that i thought about too much, only on occasion

 

I dont think there would be a mutiny if that specific thing was done in a minor update, when you have time to just deal with it alone?

 

I can not think of anything else one might drag and drop a layer for, surely do not want to drop a layer inside another layer

 

Dragging and dropping element.
Seems we could always drag an element from layer A to layer B? in 10.7 anyways, i can all the way back to revision 4356 anyways, i dont have any older revisions still on the PC
as far as like trying to redo their visual order in the layer

I myself have never terribly felt the need to do so.
But that may also be because i have 80+ layers and so not much call to try resorting the things in a layer because there are not that many elements per layer.

 

That is not to say that someone, or a lot of someones might not put that to use, it just has not come up as a need for me because i have things so sub categorized
that i dont really have much to sort in a given layer.

 

But if it is one of those things where it is "Cool New Feature" but is keeping you from being able to finalize 10.7 and the feature simply needs more time and testing

i do not personally see anything terrible about holding that specific feature back so it can have some dedicated time by itself to be worked on and released in like a 10.7.1 update

or something.

 

I know you arent exactly sitting there with 24 hours of day and nothing at all to do with it every day

[Segovia11]

Is it a good idea to upgrade with a release candidate? 

(although a bug fix may require an upgrade to rectify the bug & that can not be avoided)   

A release candidate should be dedicated to bug fixing,

You have now upgraded the release candidate, it would now be logical to complete the drag & drop bug fix & continue testing the release candidate without adding upgrades to it. 

Edited by Segovia11, 06 September 2021 - 10:28 AM.

[fuzzel]

I have no problem removing the sorting option for layers again if the majority of authors agree.
One alternative could be to leave the sorting feature as is but without saving/loading the new sorting order.
The current problems are all related to the saving/loading.

Edited by fuzzel, 06 September 2021 - 12:37 PM.

[Darkiller]

hi guys,

 

hope you are all well and I wanted to express my gratitude, as a VPX fan & daily user, for the hard work you put in this. i am, and I think we are all, very grateful for your talents.

thank you.

 

My question may seem a bit strange, especially in this thread which is all about continued 10.7 beta improvements but would you reckon at this very stage of 10.7 development, does it make more sense to use 10.7 (current rev 308) to play our tables... or would you say for "playing only" at this stage it is best to still use 10.6 final?

 

thank you again for all you do to help improve our hobby.

[fripounet]

 

The 1st part i 100% disagree, 10.6 layers are inadequate, i do not have one single table that fits in the constraints of 10.6's layering system

For the 2nd part, the comment is asinine
If you think Toxi and Fuzzel are doing this for forums clicks or something, your head just isnt screwed on straight

 

since april 2020, it has been focusing on its layering system, which worked very well with 10.6.

the time devoted to this, would have more prolific to integrate a real dynamic 3d real time camera, full space with a wire mode like that of fp.

I don't even know if webp is supported by 10.6.....

 

quote me a table which could not be recreated with 10.6 due to technical constraints of the editor ?

 

my work organization

I don't need to have dozens of layers ......

 

1: guides

2: lights

3: active components (kickers, targets ...)

4: ramps

5: plastics

6: other mini pf if necessary.....

7: pegs and rubbers

8; GI

9: mini pf if necessary.......

10: toys

 

the screws , I never put them on , so I save unnecessary polygons....

Edited by fripounet, 06 September 2021 - 04:17 PM.

[jpsalas]

I have no problem removing the sorting option for layers again if the majority of authors agree.
One alternative could be to leave the sorting feature as is but without saving/loading the new sorting order.
The current problems are all related to the saving/loading.

 

I just use a few layers for my tables, so I don't need to be able to sort them. Just my two cents

[batch]

I rename layers according to elements I put inside (flashers, playfield lights, plastics...), so I don't need to sort them

 

But it's just my personal opinion, as I'm no sure many authors do the same way

Edited by batch, 06 September 2021 - 03:21 PM.

[Segovia11]

I have just opened a new table using version 308 and added a new layer.

I added a bumper and the bumper was added to the new layer, I continued to add more bumpers & flashers which were also added to the new layer. 

I then saved the table.

I then continued to add more objects to the table as above & saved the table again after shifting the list around.

The file size did not inflate & everything was in the right place after opening the table from a closed state. (although it did inflate a little bit, one would expect that to be the case when adding objects to the table)

 

Version 270 did allow you to sort the list in the layer. When you selected the name in the layer with the mouse & dragged it up it would drop the selection to the bottom of the list.

 

I could not find a fault with the layers in version 270 or 308.

 

   

Edited by Segovia11, 06 September 2021 - 06:11 PM.

[Segovia11]

Beg my pardon, with version 308 I attempted to manually assign an object to a layer & the layers would all vanish.  To bring back the layers you must close & then open the table. A non critical bug. This bug was active in past versions.

 

The object that is added to the layers automatically works without fault with the drag & drop feature. Nice feature. 

 

I have just tested the layers with the auto save & it did not produce a fault.

 

     

Edited by Segovia11, 06 September 2021 - 06:54 PM.

[Segovia11]

In version 308 with the autosave I selected 'save the table every 1 minute' & I got only one save from it. The save occured without fault. 

 

     

Edited by Segovia11, 06 September 2021 - 05:45 PM.

[Segovia11]

Beg my parden again,  In version 308 It would only autosave over the same file (AutoSave0) when I added something new to the table. The file size remained the same. A nice autosave feature. 

 

     

Edited by Segovia11, 06 September 2021 - 05:45 PM.

[Segovia11]

Fuzzel, why would you want to rid of the drag & drop feature when it is working with non critical bugs?  Those non critical bugs were active in past versions!

 

     

Edited by Segovia11, 07 September 2021 - 07:41 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

My question may seem a bit strange, especially in this thread which is all about continued 10.7 beta improvements but would you reckon at this very stage of 10.7 development, does it make more sense to use 10.7 (current rev 308) to play our tables... or would you say for "playing only" at this stage it is best to still use 10.6 final?

 

 

 I dont have a 10.6 exe on any of my PCs anymore, and actually have not had one for a while
For playing, 10.7 is pretty much a smooth sail, it is only for authoring that is has some issues.
and they are only a few very specific issues, it isnt bug city

[wiesshund]

I have no problem removing the sorting option for layers again if the majority of authors agree.
One alternative could be to leave the sorting feature as is but without saving/loading the new sorting order.
The current problems are all related to the saving/loading.

 Just my personal opinion.

That part is a new feature
It's a good feature, i know some authors will like to make use of it
but never the less, it is a new feature, kind of late in the game if finalization of 10.7 is supposed to be soon.

 

It also seems to be a feature that will need some time and study to see how to carry it out in a way that behaves as you intend it to.

Considering that right now, we can relabel layers, create new layers as needed, drag elements out of one layer and drop into another
select mass objects on the table, pick a layer and click the finger button to move them to that layer etc, we already have magnitudes more layer control than 10.6

 

I would pack the re-ordering project up and put it into the tomorrow box, and finalize the existing 10.7
Can always pull the tomorrow box back out, and do a beta just for it, to be released as an incremental patch?

[fuzzel]

rev309 is up (Release Candidate):

 

- remove sorting via drag&drop for now. This might be added in the future but it introduced to much hassle at the moment

[wiesshund]

Toxie, why would you want to rid of the drag & drop feature when it is working with non critical bugs?  Those non critical bugs were active in past versions!

 

     

 

It is not a non critical bug that was active in the past

layers vanish visibly in their entirety as several of us have already displayed
and you can no longer get to the layers the objects are in, nor can you add new layers.
I think perhaps you are not understanding what the feature is, nor what the bug with it is?

rev309 is up (Release Candidate):

 

- remove sorting via drag&drop for now. This might be added in the future but it introduced to much hassle at the moment

 

So far, so good

And the long delay in saving is gone