369 replies to this topic

[1up]

I do hope this one makes it to the end. We lost the other two already

hey, i'm still here . i may not have been as active as i'd like lately on this project but am still following and working on the table as the steps are posted.
had it not been for this workshop then i dont think i would of even tried to build a table on my own (SMB still in progress), as i wouldnt have known where to even start.

so i too also hope this table continues.....

[kruge99]

Well lets "Keep Hope Alive" by watching the video - and we'll hope that what happens at around 1:46 doesn't happen to this Workshop

Keep Hope Alive





Best Regards,
Todd

[kruge99]

Any news wtiger? Are we going to resume work on ID4 sometime soon please?

How is your PC situation Faralos? How much longer will you be without a PC?


Best Regards,
Todd.

[TheMcD]

Wtiger last logged on a month ago. That's quite a long time.

The McD

[wtiger]

Wtiger last logged on a month ago. That's quite a long time.

The McD

I'm somewhat back. Sorry everyone, I've been pretty busy doing other things and kind of lost interest and took a bit of a break from things. I just got back from Las Vegas. I went to The Pinball Hall of Fame and guess what, they had a Junkyard pinball! I think I got the pinball bug back!!! I'm playing catch-up with 18 pages of postings since my last log on. I've got some other things to do this weekend, so maybe next weekend I'll play around with the ramps in an attempt to pick things up where we left off.


Lets build the transparent portion of the third Ramp...

Ramp 3 – the left one

This ramp is very similar to ramp2 that we just built. We will build it in several sections due to the fact that we need to clear the plastic piece below at the start but not be too high that we interfere with the ramp above as well as incorporating a section that will allow the ball to drop back to the playfield if it doesn’t have enough strength to complete the full length of the ramp.

The first section of the ramp we will build starts where the ramp flap at the bottom is and ends before it crosses the plastic piece:




We want this ramp section to be as long as possible so that the ramp will not be too steep for the ball to travel up. As a result, we will use an image that incorporates the ramp flap at the bottom. Download the following image and import it into your table setting the transparency color to white. Set it as the image for this first ramp section:




Set the bottom width of the ramp to 95 and the top to 70. The bottom height can stay at 0 but change the top height to 60 so that it is higher than the plastic piece.





For the next section, we want to make sure that it doesn’t interfere with the wire ramp that will be above, so we will set this section bottom and top height to 60. Set both the bottom and top width to 70 and set the image to the transparent image like we’ve done on the previous ramps. Make sure you manually set the start control point to match the X and Y values of the end control point of the previous section:




The next section goes up to where there is a one-way gate. Set the bottom height to 60 and the top height to 135: The width of this section and the remaining sections will be 70.





For the next section we need to allow a slow ball to fall down back onto the playfield. Add a ramp section as shown below and set both the bottom and top height to 135. Set the right visible wall height to 0 and also set the Right Physical wall to 0 as well. This will allow the ball to fall properly:




The next section continues to just before where it crosses the ramp below. Set the bottom height to 135 and the top height to 175:




The last section continues the shape of the ramp and has both bottom and top height to 175:




Now lets build that section of the ramp where if the ball is too slow it will fall back to the playfield. Add a light object of radius 30:




Now add wall object and shape it as shown below. Set the bottom height to 134 and the top to 135 so it will match the same height as the ramp section it connects to. Set both the top and side image to our transparent image:





Now add a ramp object to follow the outer edge of the wall object we just built. Change both widths to 8 and both heights to 160 (our wall object height of 135 plus 25).




Now we need to add our one-way gate. Add a gate object as shown below (you will need to set the length to 70 and the rotation to 30). Click on the ramp object that our gate is on top of and note the ramp name. Go back and click on the gate object and set the surface to match the ramp name you just noted. This places the gate on the ramp rather than on the playfield level.




You can now delete the light object you added as we don’t need it anymore.

[Noah Fentz]

GREAT to see you back, wtiger!

If you need anything, let me know.

[kruge99]

wooooohoooooo!!!! Fan-tas-tic!!!!


Best Regards,
Todd.

[wtiger]

I spent some time today studying how JP does the nice wire ramps (last time I tried them on my working ID table they didn’t come out very good). After looking over a few tables I modeled the one that goes to the right inlane and it looks great. The only problem is that it doesn’t function properly. The ball immediately got stuck at the transition where it goes from the transparent ramp on the left side to the wire. I got that somewhat resolved and then of course the ball got stick where it goes over another ramp. Got that fixed too by splitting up the ramp into more pieces. Now I’m getting interference with the top part of the metal ramp (the upper/outer guides). I’m going to take a break for a bit now and pick back up later this afternoon or tomorrow. I always seem to have a lot of trouble when it comes to ramps.

Here's how the ramp looks on a test table prior to having to adjust/split things:

[destruk]

Ramps can be difficult. For this though, you should set all visible ramps/wire sections to not be collidable. Then use invisible ramps for the ball to roll over. Provided your ramps have 60 width that will prevent the ball from getting stuck on the objects that make up the ramp in question. You need to have overlapping ramps be 60 height or more for clearance. The default side wall height is 62, so you can also change that setting. Your ramp screenshot there looks great.

[GRONI]

Best Solution for Ramps are one invisible Main Ramp with a Help Trigger at the End, that stops the ball and send it down.
Then create the Wires with ramps and set them to not collidable.
So the ball just rolls on the Invisible Ramp and gets saftey to the inlanes with the help trigger. And the wires make the typical Ramp look.

[el_timbo]

Agreed Destruk,

You've done a fantastic job replicating the JP style ramps wtiger!!

el_timbo

[wtiger]

Thanks Destruk & GRONI. I just started on the ramp again a few minutes ago and I rembered there was a collidable option. Sure enough I un-checked it and now things are working. I logged on here to make a quick post about it and I see that both of you mentioned that. I am still a total noob at this.

wtiger

[kruge99]

I have to say, the term "workshop" totally explains the last 3-4 posts!!! It's stuff like this that keeps me refreshing the vpforums page every hour all day long!!


Best Regards,
Todd.

p.s. that ramp looks amazing wtiger, I can't wait to see you finish it up!!

[wtiger]

Part 1

Ok, dust off your Independence table (I know it’s been a while since the last exercise). We are now going to make the metal wire ramp that goes from the left side, starting where the transparent ramp ends, to the right inlane.

To make the building easier, we will build the ramp in a blank table and then import all the parts into our actual Independence table. Create a new table and delete all the objects in it. Change the table dimensions to match our working table of 1000 x 2300. Under the physics section change the table height to 2300 (the width should already be 1000). Now import the ID-guide-plastic.jpg image into this new table. This image is one what shows the ramps:




The first step is to make a flat ramp that the ball will actually travel on that we will make invisible. Due to this ramp that we are building going over another ramp below, we need to split up the flat ramp into two sections to make sure that there is enough clearance between the two.

We will be adding the first section between the start and end in the following image:




Add a ramp and move the bottom to our start position. Make sure the direction of the ramp matches the picture (the ramp bottom is at the bottom of the screen and the ramp top is at the top. The ramp will not work properly if the direction of the ramp is wrong):




Make the ramp top and bottom width 55. Change the bottom height to 60 and top to 118. Unckeck both Cast Shadow and Visible:




Click on the ramp to select it then click and drag on the top control point to move it into the approximate position (we will fine tune the position later to match the end of the transparent ramp from our working table):




Now add a couple control points to the ramp (right click inside the ramp) and left click on add point:




Start moving the control points around to make the ramp shape match the shape from the ID-guide-plastic:




Now with the ramp highlighted, make a copy (hit CTRL-C or Edit Copy) then paste (CTRL-V or Edit Paste). Change this copied ramp top and bottom width to 8, Visible Wall left and right to 0, Bottom height to 71 (11 units higher than our ramp floor bottom height) and top height to 128 (10 units high than our ramp floor top height). Click on Visible and Acrylic so it will show up.

Import the Metal_wire.jpg image right below:



and select it for the ramp image and set the Mode to ImageModeWrap:




Very important, under physics, un-check Collidable (otherwise the ball won’t travel on the ramp):




Now right click on this new ramp and translate it -15. If you add a light object of radius 4 to the left edge of the first wide ramp object, your new narrow ramp should line up on the right edge of that light object:




Now scroll to the top of the ramp and move the control point down to the end of our wide ramp:




Make another copy of the thin ramp and translate it in the X direction by 30. It should now line up on the left edge of a radius 4 light object on the right side of our ramp:




Scroll to the top portion of our ramp and adjust the control point to match the end of our ramp floor:




Now add a light object of radius 35 to the end of the ramp (this will be our guide for the ramp end):




Now sect the left narrow ramp and add a point a little above the end. Move the end point down then move the added point down to match the end of the ramp floor. Right click on the control point and uncheck smooth:




Now move the control points to match the outline of the light object. Add extra control points if needed:




Now repeat for the right side. Make sure the end points of both ramps have the same X and Y position values:




Add a left flipper and wall object where the left sling is. Change the table image to none and click play to see how the ramp is looking:




Now make a copy of the left narrow ramp. Change the Visible Wall to 6 for both left and right, change the bottom height to 65, top height to 122. Select None for the image and click on the color button and change the Red value to 45, Green to 51 and Blue to 51:




Repeat for the right narrow ramp. This will give the bottom of the wire a black shadow:


That’s all I have for now. I will post the next part this coming weekend…

Attached Files

•  HalvRing.bmp   78.18KB   29 downloads

[Noah Fentz]

Nice to have you back, Gary!

[kruge99]

Thanks a lot wtiger and welcome back!


Best Regards,
Todd.

[wtiger]

I had a little bit of time tonight, so here's Part 2

Something I forgot to put in the first post. The metal wire and half ring images are from JPSalas. He has graciously allowed me to use his images. Thank you JP!


Now that we’ve build the metal wire for the base of the ramp, we need to build the outer walls.

Start by making a copy of the left wire that has the metal image. Click on it to select it. If you are having trouble selecting it, you can move the flat ramp out of the way, then click on the left wire ramp to select it, then hit CTRL-Z (or Edit, Undo). This will move the flat ramp back into position and leave metal wire still highlighted:




With the new ramp still selected, translate it -16 in the X position:




Now select the control points that make up the left half of the end ring by clicking on one and holding down the shift key and then select the others. Do not select the control point that is at the very bottom of the invisible floor bottom:




Your ramp should look like this:




Now delete the control point indicated in the image below (the top one inside the yellow light object). Your ramp end should now look like the one on the right of the below image:




Now we start moving control points so that our new outer wire ramp aligns with the left edge of our invisible floor ramp. Start towards the bottom and work your way up the ramp until you are done:




Note, this ramp does not go all the way to the end. Refer to the image below for end point:




When you are done it should look something like the following image. Note, you may need to add an extra control point or two to get it to align properly in all places as well as deleting the very end control point.




Now with our new ramp still selected change the bottom height to 101 and the top height to 126.

Make a copy of this ramp and paste it (CTRL-C and then CTRL-V). Change the Image to None, Color to R=45, G=51, and B=51, Top height to 120, Bottom height to 95, and Left and Right wall to 6 for both:




Now repeat this whole process on the right side.

When you are all done your entire ramp should look like this:

[kruge99]

wow! pretty amazing stuff wtiger! You make it look so easy. How do you figure out the ramp heights so that the ball rolls continuously? When I was using the "built-in" VP wire ramps I had a heck of a time with the ball colliding with the ramps that overlapped each other. Fanstatic tutorial!


Best Regards,
Todd.

[destruk]

Thanks for that ramp post wTiger - it's awesome. Since the ramp wires aren't collidable, you can use an invisible wall at the end with elasticity of 0 to stop and drop the ball (through regular gravity) rather than using a trigger or kicker set. That's how I've been doing it on my later tables and it looks smooth. It doesn't require scripting. I've been trying to refrain from manually changing the ball speed/direction from the script to let the physics engine pick all that up.

[wtiger]

wow! pretty amazing stuff wtiger! You make it look so easy. How do you figure out the ramp heights so that the ball rolls continuously? When I was using the "built-in" VP wire ramps I had a heck of a time with the ball colliding with the ramps that overlapped each other. Fanstatic tutorial!


Best Regards,
Todd.

Todd,
Thanks, but I can't take credit for this. I am only copying what JPSalas has done. Ramps alway drive me crazy figuring out the heights (I worked on Viper Night Drivin' for quite a while because I kept having a problem like you did. I don't remember how long it took me to finally figure out that various heights needed so that two overlapping ramps didn't cause the ball to stop). Also, I did cheat a bit in that I looked at the various heights that the previous ID table uses.

Thanks for that ramp post wTiger - it's awesome. Since the ramp wires aren't collidable, you can use an invisible wall at the end with elasticity of 0 to stop and drop the ball (through regular gravity) rather than using a trigger or kicker set. That's how I've been doing it on my later tables and it looks smooth. It doesn't require scripting. I've been trying to refrain from manually changing the ball speed/direction from the script to let the physics engine pick all that up.

Thanks Destruk. Again, the credit goes to JPSalsas for the concept. Thanks for the info/tips on the ramp ends. I did use kickers in The Sporanos (copied from JP). I'll try what you mentioned that way like you said no script required and the ball will flow smoother when dropping.