4027 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

The VPX file does not generally compress very much

What takes up most of the space is the images and audio and they are already stored very compact

 

It varies from table to table but the compression is generally little to none depending
on the source material.

 

But even for saving a little space, i dont think the tradeoff is worth it

 

things like MAME roms and NES games etc work because they are very small in general

tables can get very large, and you have to decompress all the data in order to use it which gets non efficient when you start dealing with larger stuff.

And some tables contain things that need to be handled by an external process, like user created DMD's on original tables and those processes wont look inside the zipped

archive, so then those will wind up having to be packed in yet another zip which will ultimately lead to confusion and problems for the average joe.

 

If one finds themselves in a position of needing to zip tables in order fir their HDD to not be full, then the reality is they either need to
get a new HDD (or SSD) or take an honest look at the tables they have, and ask themselves Do they really play all 7000 of those tables or are they simply collecting them
just for the sake of collecting them and then rid themselves of unused baggage.

 

I know people with mame cabs, with a ludicrous amount of roms on them, and 90% of them have never been played in 10+ years, not even once.

That's a lot of hard drive doing nothing

[chepas]

Can I add a Stripped Table to the menu? It's 512kb, stripped all audio and 95% image.

 

These stripped tables are ideal for rapid tests and saving space on disk if just using them as test beds or starter tables.

 

 

See that for other Bug unless in case you missed me mention about the RecentFiles clipping.

 

You know, a 512kb light sequencer table wouldn't go a miss either?

Edited by chepas, 13 July 2021 - 07:21 AM.

[Victor74]

Yeah it was just a thought off the top of my head.

 

Doesn't hurt to ask.

 

Thanks again for your time kind sirs.

 

It was good to raise it, although it would be of little use to save some space (a lot) on the tables, when then we have PinUp video packages that weigh even more than 3Gb some.

And if compressing the tables is going to mean that they take longer to open, it would not be a good idea.

Indeed, you can use RocketLauncher in PinballX, but that time to unzip the table would be longer than it takes to open.

As they are not compressed, they can be opened from windows with a double click, without the need for a frontend, which we could not do with compressed tables.

Anyway, I think it would have more drawbacks than advantages.

A 500Gb SSD can fit more than 1000 Visual Pinball tables, more than 100 PupPacks, more than 100 Future Pinball and all Steam games, Malzbies, Pinball Arcade, Pinball FX2, Pinball FX3, Pinball HD Collection, Pro-Pinball , Pinball Wicked, SlamIt ....

Do you need more space?

Option 1 - 1TB SSD

Option 2 - additional HDD and have 2 disks, 1 SSD + 1 HDD

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Estubo bien plantearlo, aunque de poco serviría ahorrar algo de espacio (bastante) en las mesas, cuando luego tenemos paquetes de videos de PinUp que pesan incluso más de 3Gb algunos.

Y si comprimir las mesas va a suponer que tarden más tiempo en abrir, no sería una buena idea.

Efectivamente se puede usar RocketLauncher en PinballX, pero ese tiempo de descomprimir la mesa, sería más tiempo que tarda en abrirse.

Al no estar comprimidas, se pueden abrir desde windows con doble clic, sin necesidad de frontend, cosa que no podríamos hacer con las mesas comprimidas.

En fin, que creo que tendría más inconvenientes que ventajas.

En un SSD de 500Gb caben más de 1000 mesas de Visual Pinball, más de 100 PupPacks,  más de 100 de Future Pinball y todos los juegos de Steam, Malzbies, Pinball Arcade, Pinball FX2, Pinball FX3, Pinball HD Collection, Pro-Pinball, Pinball Wicked, SlamIt....

¿Necesitas más espacio?

Opción 1 - SSD de 1TB

Opción 2 - HDD adicional y tener 2 discos, 1 SSD + 1 HDD 

-----------------------------------------

[toxie]

Just a quick comment on compression: Most stuff in the VPX files is actually already compressed. Not as fancy as .7z would do, but nevertheless. So the benefit from adding compression wouldn't be as high as one may think.

Quick test using some larger tables with ultra 7z level: TFTC: 90% size, CV: 90%, CC: 80%, Waterworld: 80%, Firepower: 80%, Grand Lizard: 70%, Mandalorian: 60%

So i think its mostly tables that still use a lot of .wav files that benefit, as these are not compressed in the file format.

Can I add a Stripped Table to the menu? It's 512kb, stripped all audio and 95% image.

 

These stripped tables are ideal for rapid tests and saving space on disk if just using them as test beds or starter tables.

You know, a 512kb light sequencer table wouldn't go a miss either?

Yes to both from my side..

[fuzzel]

rev249 is up (Release Cadidate):

 

- added `Primitive` type to `Light Sequencer` (dynamic and static)

- fix bug with clicking an empty layer not selecting it internally

- add flashers to light sequence

- added flashers to light sequencer collection.

- make debug dialog (and its text edit) resizable and remove the expand button

- F2 starts renaming of layer items

- when setting up the defaults for low- or high-end PCs in the video preferences via the respective buttons, ignore settings that do not influence performance like display, FS mode, etc

- fix crash when importing older .vpp files in the physics import and import min & max slope, too, when importing a .vpp file directly in a table

[Stormwatch]

Hello and thanks for all the good work done to improve this already wonderfull program.

 

So i think its mostly tables that still use a lot of .wav files that benefit, as these are not compressed in the file format

 

What about supporting FLAC? That would be ideal in reducing the size while keeping the lossles quality, since Bass library supports it, unless there are some other caveat.

 

Maybe also supporting MOD (with FLAC in them being ideal if such thing is possible). I was hoping it would allow fancy stuff like playing/loop section A or B, but sadly Bass basically allows only play/stop as far as I can tell. On the up side though it would certainly reduce the size for music as you end up with only one sample per instrument instead of a rendered wav/mp3 which basically repeats those samples where they are played which inflates the file size.

Edited by Stormwatch, 13 July 2021 - 07:56 AM.

[toxie]

I looked into FLAC, too, yes. But it's not as tightly integrated as mp3 and ogg into BASS yet, so it comes with some caveats, especially as soon as 3D/Surround is wanted.  :/

[Stormwatch]

I looked into FLAC, too, yes. But it's not as tightly integrated as mp3 and ogg into BASS yet, so it comes with some caveats, especially as soon as 3D/Surround is wanted.  :/

 

Thanks for considering. Let's hope they'll make it better some day... ;-)

Edited by Stormwatch, 13 July 2021 - 08:30 AM.

[chepas]

Just a quick comment on compression: Most stuff in the VPX files is actually already compressed. Not as fancy as .7z would do, but nevertheless. So the benefit from adding compression wouldn't be as high as one may think.

Quick test using some larger tables with ultra 7z level: TFTC: 90% size, CV: 90%, CC: 80%, Waterworld: 80%, Firepower: 80%, Grand Lizard: 70%, Mandalorian: 60%

So i think its mostly tables that still use a lot of .wav files that benefit, as these are not compressed in the file format.

Can I add a Stripped Table to the menu? It's 512kb, stripped all audio and 95% image.

 

These stripped tables are ideal for rapid tests and saving space on disk if just using them as test beds or starter tables.

You know, a 512kb light sequencer table wouldn't go a miss either?

Yes to both from my side..

 

Cool. bool is null by default? I did start to notice why the primitives wouldn't disappear on load....

 

I pulled over anyway, you can have a peak.....The light Seq is good, included Black / Wizards attract script, but you can send in your own Seq to that, just gives you a long running show with all the effects.

[bietekwiet]

Is there a known bug where table sounds and back glass sounds are swapped? I load up White Water (with Altsound) and the Backglass sounds are roaring through the exciters instead of the backglass speakers. VPX audio preferences is set up properly. Only happens with that table.

[lukpcn]

Just a thought, maybe it's a very easy thing to do... when pressing F11 to bring FPS counter it is in the top left corner (cabinet mode) so it is not easy to see it... can those stats be shown in the bottom left corner in cab mode (which is bottom right in desktop) ?

[LynnInDenver]

On compression, PinMAME uses the similar setup to regular MAME, partly because many ROM files are actually "sets" of ROM files, and keeping them zipped reduces the number of files you're looking at, and reduces the chances for error, since it doesn't really save enough space otherwise to be worth it. MAME can deal with unzipped folders, but it increases the potential that you could delete one of the bits of a ROM (or Windows Defender could!)

 

I'm not sure you'd get enough space savings compressing the tables to make it worth the performance hit, plus it really doesn't help with front end media.

Edited by LynnInDenver, 13 July 2021 - 11:35 AM.

[jpsalas]

I'm getting a crash when running Apollo 13 table, from here: Apollo 13 (Sega 1995) - VPForums.org, and it used to work fine on older betas.

 

Crash report VPX rev249 (3d786cf)

============

Process: VPinballX.exe

Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:0057A551

Attempt to read from 0x00000000

Thread ID: 0x1CC0 [7360]

 

Call stack

==========

0057A551 VPinballX.exe (0x148A5980 0x148D41A0 0x0019E32C 0x00000000)

004DC272 VPinballX.exe (0x00000000 0x00000009 0x148D41A0 0x0019e3c0)

004E14F5 VPinballX.exe (0x148D41A0 0x0E1DC8F0 0x0019E548 0x148d4f20)

004E686D VPinballX.exe (0x148D41A0 0x00120412 0x00000000 0x00000007)

004DB93D VPinballX.exe (0x00428AC0 0x004D75B1 0x0000C190 0x148d41a0)

004D75B1 VPinballX.exe (0x0000C190 0x148D41A0 0x00428AC0 0x75fe07fb)

004293E3 VPinballX.exe (0x0000C190 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00120412)

004EA124 VPinballX.exe (0x0000C190 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x0000c190)

00428B17 VPinballX.exe (0x00428AC0 0x00120412 0x0000C190 0x00000000)

75FF5E7A user32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x7AA (0x00428AC0 0x00000000 0x0000C190 0x00000000)

75FF3BEA user32.dll DispatchMessageW + 0x24A (0x75FDDE80 0x005CA126 0x0019F22C 0x00000000)

75FE5D70 user32.dll DispatchMessageA + 0x10 (0x0019F22C 0x00000000 0x00000001 0x0019f248)

005CA126 VPinballX.exe (0x00000000 0x00000001 0x00221000 0x00753940)

005B65D0 VPinballX.exe (0x00400000 0x00000000 0x03193782 0x00000001)

005E36F1 VPinballX.exe (0x00221000 0x75C8FA10 0x0019FFDC 0x77c17a7e)

75C8FA29 KERNEL32.DLL BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x19 (0x00221000 0x4E96E35F 0x00000000 0x00000000)

77C17A7E ntdll.dll RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath + 0x11E (0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 0x77C38A2A 0x00000000 0x00000000)

77C17A4E ntdll.dll RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath + 0xEE (0x02F893D0 0x00221000 0x00000000 0x78746341)

 

Environment

===========

Date/time: 13/7/2021, 14:18:37:85

Number of CPUs: 16

Processor type: 586

System: Windows 10 (10.0 19043)

 

Memory status

=============

Total Reserved: 160600K (156M) bytes

Total Commited: 658144K (642M) bytes

Total Free: 3375496K (3296M) bytes

Largest Free: 2095436K (2046M) bytes

 

Registers

=========

EAX=0E0399A0 EBX=00000002 ECX=0019E27C EDX=0E0399E8

ESI=0E039868 EDI=00000000 EBP=0019FFEC ESP=0019FFE4 EIP=77C17A4E

FLG=00210203 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B

 

 

Mini dump saved successfully.

 

 

Sometimes I get a smaller version:

 

Crash report VPX rev249 (3d786cf)

============

Process: VPinballX.exe

Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:0057A4EC

Attempt to read from 0x00000000

Thread ID: 0x1EA0 [7840]

 

Call stack

==========

 

Environment

===========

Date/time: 13/7/2021, 13:50:29:25

Number of CPUs: 16

Processor type: 586

System: Windows 10 (10.0 19043)

 

Memory status

=============

Total Reserved: 158052K (154M) bytes

Total Commited: 654312K (638M) bytes

Total Free: 3381876K (3302M) bytes

Largest Free: 2095436K (2046M) bytes

 

Registers

=========

EAX=00000000 EBX=00000001 ECX=00000000 EDX=00000000

ESI=0750E128 EDI=00000020 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019E260 EIP=0057A4EC

FLG=00210202 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B

 

 

Mini dump saved successfully.

 

This table, Hurricane 1,4b also gives me the same error, Hurricane (Williams 1991) [Csilk MOD] - VPForums.org

Edited by jpsalas, 13 July 2021 - 12:31 PM.

[Thalamus]

Randomly selected table "Defender_VR_1.0.vpx" - crash when pressing play.

Loads fine in "VPX_7_beta_rev213_rc.exe"

 

Crash report VPX rev249 (3d786cf)
============
Process: VPinballX.exe
Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:0057A4EC
Attempt to read from 0x000B0FD0
Thread ID: 0x230 [560]

Call stack
==========

Environment
===========
Date/time: 13/7/2021, 14:30:43:499
Number of CPUs: 16
Processor type: 586
System: Windows 10 (10.0 19042)

Memory status
=============
Total Reserved: 190124K (185M) bytes
Total Commited: 2468680K (2410M) bytes
Total Free: 1535436K (1499M) bytes
Largest Free: 1390756K (1358M) bytes

Registers
=========
EAX=00000000 EBX=00000001 ECX=000B0FD0 EDX=0000EBFC
ESI=0DCFDB98 EDI=00000020 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019E260 EIP=0057A4EC
FLG=00010202 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B


Mini dump saved successfully.

[cyberpez]

That was the whole reason behind the light sequencer: to make a light effect without disturbing the state of the lights. This way you didn't need to save the states of all the lights before making an effect, and restoring them afterwards.

Yeah I read that before and it makes sense. 

 

But it sure would be slick if it could work somehow.  Maybe a second variable that shows if the light is on or off (or even 0-100 O_O ) Something different than the state. 

 

Here are two examples of what I was trying to do.  Both run within a timer.  the one with set lamp feeds a version of the fading lights script.  It works good and I have a workaround for state = 2.  It just does not work with the light sequence.

Attached Files

•  lightstate.PNG   13.35KB   5 downloads

[toxie]

Fix for the crashes is coming up..

[toxie]

I pulled over anyway, you can have a peak.....The light Seq is good, included Black / Wizards attract script, but you can send in your own Seq to that, just gives you a long running show with all the effects.

 

I merged the pull (and fixed it ), thanks!

Maybe there is a chance to make it a bit more interesting out-of-the-box? As-is it just blinks in the most boring fashion. (and i don't have any clue about how to use the light sequencing :/)

[toxie]

 

That was the whole reason behind the light sequencer: to make a light effect without disturbing the state of the lights. This way you didn't need to save the states of all the lights before making an effect, and restoring them afterwards.

Yeah I read that before and it makes sense. 

 

But it sure would be slick if it could work somehow.  Maybe a second variable that shows if the light is on or off (or even 0-100 O_O ) Something different than the state.

I added the second thing, so it will return the state that the light sequencer set the light to at the moment, or just the 'normal' state otherwise (called: GetInPlayState).

Please let me know if that works as expected then. 

if you have a github account you can dload a build here: https://github.com/v...runs/1027446526

[chepas]

 

I pulled over anyway, you can have a peak.....The light Seq is good, included Black / Wizards attract script, but you can send in your own Seq to that, just gives you a long running show with all the effects.

 

I merged the pull (and fixed it ), thanks!

Maybe there is a chance to make it a bit more interesting out-of-the-box? As-is it just blinks in the most boring fashion. (and i don't have any clue about how to use the light sequencing :/)

 

 

It has almost 200 lines of sequences when you push 6, which is more than enough.

 

You can press 4 or 5 to run your own sequences, by replacing those methods.

 

This information is in the table anyway but...

 

4 - will time your show

5 - run your show normally

6 - Run the big show as demo

Edited by chepas, 13 July 2021 - 05:37 PM.

[toxie]

D'oh, so that was what is written in that textbox..