3889 replies to this topic

[jimmyfingers]

 

I didn't mean to step on toes and I'm not really working on it for an official release.  Simple conversion of JP's table to play and test out.  Please continue with you're version.  I'd love to see what a real pro could do!!!

 

 No man, no toes to worry about, that was kinda my point about my other post.  People should release what they like, whether it's a 2nd or 10th version.  At most I was saying hope no one considered it me stepping on your toes as you were the first one to mention in this thread AFM and a VP10 version.

 

Back to the main Beta topic and back to a bunch of Beta testing / reporting for me.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 15 June 2015 - 09:10 PM.

[fuzzel]

rev2066 is up:

 

- overall collision detection improvements. This revision has an updated collision handling please test this if you find any odd behavior especially on multi ball.

- kicker cup texture improved

- kicker handling improved but not perfect. On some tables the non-legacy kicker stops the ball nearly completely but it shouldn't drop the FPS like in earlier revisions. If that happens the best workaround is to use a legacy kicker for now.

- kicker cup/hole mesh improved so they fit better onto the table

[randr]

Fuzzel the kickers look good!

[fuzzel]

Thanks randr, good to know

[freneticamnesic]

Any chance of custom shaped kicker holes now so we can really abuse these physics?

[fuzzel]

Sorry that's not possible at the moment.

[freneticamnesic]

 

Omg, Frenitic. It simply means I want as many tables as possible.
It was explained to me earlier that people would not start redoing tables that were already finished until VP 10 was finalized.
The comment is nothing more then me wishing it was finalized.
Is that good enough for you?

I have stated more then once that I appreciate every table and all the hard work put into them.

I'm not sure what else you want here.

 

I understand you, and as I just said a bit ago, some wires got crossed.  Let's get this one resolved, folks.

 

That said, I don't honestly see why you're people are not willing to start converting tables during the beta.  Again, if you run into something that doesn't work well or makes it more difficult for you, the beta period is a GREAT time to report those problems and get fixes for them.  It's more difficult in general to do that once a product is "finalized" - partly because in that respect it never truly IS finalized.

 

(EDIT: Rephrased slightly - "why people are not willing".)

 

 

yea. That's kind of my point, everyone should convert and build what they want. I converted/re-made two of my existing tables in VP10 so it's not really about that for me. I already got flak for starting a Sopranos build and someone told me it was too soon.... but I think what's really been a buzz kill for a lot of authors is everyone has a table they want, and request it every chance they get. "Why don't you make x" kind of stuff, and that really bums me out. I want all of us to build the tables we want, after all that's why I started making tables. I made a couple tables that were "needed" which I regret and I won't do that again, it takes all the fun out of it for me. Plus, while it is a bummer to me to see someone requesting more popular tables, it's probably for the benefit of VP10 beta. You want as many people to find as many bugs as they can, and obviously the best way to do that is to get a table out that most people want to play. Monster Bash was a great start but needs updated for the latest betas, no fault of UW I'm sure he's plenty busy and this is a time sucking hobby... TAF is great and AFM will be great, and no doubt we'll see some more bug reporting, that will bring us one step closer to a final release. 

I don't think there's anything to do with the beta that's holding people back from making tables, it's a weird time right now. We're just now getting to the point where all the popular tables have been made and look downright amazing in VP9, and the authors started moving onto projects they wanted to do, they're not 'avoiding' them, but they wanted to do something else. That just happens to coincide with VP10 beta testing......... the beta didn't change the plans I had for the tables I was going to do, and I imagine that's the same for other authors as well. Whether it's a conversion or a complete rebuild, I just hope we're doing what we love. Maybe I was a little hard on Arcade4 and he didn't mean it how I took it, but hopefully this explains some of my reaction. It's a genuine concern when I see any kind of unsolicited requests, it's driven some authors away... 

 

"All tables are created equal, but some tables are more equal than others."

[toxie]

rev2066 is up:

 

- overall collision detection improvements. This revision has an updated collision handling please test this if you find any odd behavior especially on multi ball.

 

just a bit more details: please watch out for the following:

- performance (as the collision hierarchies were changed a lot), both when 'nothing' (=1 ball) and a lot (=multiball) is happening

- ball/flipper interaction (is there anything happening that looks unnatural (and different from earlier versions of course), especially when having the ball interacting slowly with the flipper)

Edited by toxie, 16 June 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[KieferSkunk]

yea. That's kind of my point, everyone should convert and build what they want. I converted/re-made two of my existing tables in VP10 so it's not really about that for me. I already got flak for starting a Sopranos build and someone told me it was too soon.... but I think what's really been a buzz kill for a lot of authors is everyone has a table they want, and request it every chance they get. "Why don't you make x" kind of stuff, and that really bums me out. I want all of us to build the tables we want, after all that's why I started making tables. I made a couple tables that were "needed" which I regret and I won't do that again, it takes all the fun out of it for me. Plus, while it is a bummer to me to see someone requesting more popular tables, it's probably for the benefit of VP10 beta. You want as many people to find as many bugs as they can, and obviously the best way to do that is to get a table out that most people want to play. Monster Bash was a great start but needs updated for the latest betas, no fault of UW I'm sure he's plenty busy and this is a time sucking hobby... TAF is great and AFM will be great, and no doubt we'll see some more bug reporting, that will bring us one step closer to a final release. 

I don't think there's anything to do with the beta that's holding people back from making tables, it's a weird time right now. We're just now getting to the point where all the popular tables have been made and look downright amazing in VP9, and the authors started moving onto projects they wanted to do, they're not 'avoiding' them, but they wanted to do something else. That just happens to coincide with VP10 beta testing......... the beta didn't change the plans I had for the tables I was going to do, and I imagine that's the same for other authors as well. Whether it's a conversion or a complete rebuild, I just hope we're doing what we love. Maybe I was a little hard on Arcade4 and he didn't mean it how I took it, but hopefully this explains some of my reaction. It's a genuine concern when I see any kind of unsolicited requests, it's driven some authors away... 

 

"All tables are created equal, but some tables are more equal than others."

 

 

Frankly, to the people who go "Why don't you make X because I really like it?", I just say "No.  Make it yourself."

[Pinball999]

Just stopping by here quickly to say that even if I don't have the time or knowledge to be of any help with the beta,

I visit the forums from time to time to see how things are evolving, and man.. I'm really impressed by all the efforts and progress made since the first revision.

 

You guys rock!

[hmueck]

rev2066 is up:

- overall collision detection improvements. This revision has an updated collision handling please test this if you find any odd behavior especially on multi ball.

Using my test table from here,
http://www.vpforums....er&showissue=70
i must say the collision is working now. No more sliding through one another.
But there's still a little strange rotation thing going on. No more wild rotation with 1000rpm, but still: why is the lowest ball, lying still, suddenly starting to rotate when another ball hits a ball five balls away?

Edited by hmueck, 16 June 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[fuzzel]

Yes the collision isn't perfect yet but better than before

[toxie]

This is also what i wondered about for hours.. 

 

I actually don't really know, as the physics model itself should be capable of cancelling such rotations out that it causes itself (e.g. like in real life). So there must be some other interaction or the nature of the whole collision and contact handling of the engine, which was designed to have <= 3 balls and < 50 objects on a table (whereas nowadays VP has tables with > 10 balls and > 500.000 objects ). This is especially visible as soon as many things interact with each other, or even in different places on the table, as then things happen that do not happen when only few stuff is going on.

[toxie]

..which actually just brought me a nice idea 

 

lets see, maybe i can implement that quickly this evening..

[toxie]

..hmmm, nevermind, not gonna work.. :/

 

apart from that, i think fuzzel forgot something in the last release notes?

 

-> you can now also set more physics parameters for the playfield itself, so please experiment (as some said the ball feels like a puck sometimes).

[KieferSkunk]

@toxie: Did core.vbs 3.46 happen to make it into this release as well?

[bent98]

Toxie,

 

You and Fuzzel have made SO MANY great updates to the code and I know you are focusing on squashing bugs and sorting out the psychics. Is your plan still to enhance the engine's Anti Aliasing  after the final release of VP 10.0 or is something you will tackle  before the initial release?

[Slydog43]

2nd line in the core.vbs states

Const VPinMAMEDriverVer = 3.46

 

so I think it is

[KieferSkunk]

2nd line in the core.vbs states

Const VPinMAMEDriverVer = 3.46

 

so I think it is

 

Cool - I hadn't seen that noted in the release notes.  This means you now have cvpmTrough and cvpmSaucer to work with, both of which take over for cvpmBallStack (which is now deprecated).

[fuzzel]

..hmmm, nevermind, not gonna work.. :/
 
apart from that, i think fuzzel forgot something in the last release notes?
 
-> you can now also set more physics parameters for the playfield itself, so please experiment (as some said the ball feels like a puck sometimes).

Oh yes was a bit later yesterday I guess