285 replies to this topic

[Vinthar]

If you guys don't have time to develop how about releasing source code? Maybe someone else who have skills and time could pick up the torch? I have seen too many project (including few of my own) that after being "on hold" become vaporware... I understand real life - girls and jobs - goes first... but looks like unit3d pinball is going to nowhere with so slow develop process now on hold...  I personally lost most of my interest, because looks like I will die from old age before something happens here (no malice intended). But I still think it would be a shame to waste all this effort and possibilities. Just my few cents.

Edited by Vinthar, 10 March 2016 - 11:50 PM.

[DonRobby]

Well to be honest it s not Ok to start pointing fingers to the people who created this software.

If the other developers would understand the potential of this engine they would be more interested to try it out.

Millions of polygons.

Fully lighted with real lightsources on every lightbulb.

Realtime reflections on every model imaginable.

Full 3d models wich can be actually more then just an toy illusion.

A physics engine made by a real profesional team instead of a homebrew made by one guy wich doesn t come close to the experience that the Unity developers have.

Trigger support for game controllers or maybe for the smart guy a way to make a trigger support on their cabinet buttons.

Even goes as far as giving Occulus rift support.

And when it comes to dealing with performance Unity is even stronger then Unreal.

And best of all since march 2015 you can download Unity 5 personal for free wich has all the options of Unity 4 pro such as the dll support for VPinMAME.

It combines the best of 2 (Future Pinball and VPinMAME) and gives even more with the power provided within Unity.

So why do people stick with a limited homebrew engine when everything they need to know has been shown properly in tutorials?

Sounds weird when you realize that the potential of game quality would be unmatched by any other engine in the pinball scene.

Just 2 guys on their own can never get this thing lifted from the ground if the rest is standing on the sideline doing nothing to help them out.

Once the first man stands up more will follow, and also then they can help each other out so that many helping hands will make it more easy for even more developers to follow.

[Vinthar]

@DonRobby:

 

1) "Well to be honest it s not Ok to start pointing fingers to"

 

I believe it's OK to express personal opinions - isn't it what forums are for?

 

2) "if the rest is standing on the sideline doing nothing to help them out."

 

I believe community helped a lot financing 2 full unity licences - worth few thousands of dollars if I remember right?

I also believe community could help more if source code was released.

 

I really appreciate effort and possibilities, and that's the reason it hurts me to see this project dying.

 

Like always - just my few cents, no malice intended, just honest opinion.

Edited by Vinthar, 10 March 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[Ben Logan]

I took Vinthar's original suggestion to mean, "It'd be great if Unit3d opened itself up to a community development process, since the couple of programmers they have are obviously busy with important real life responsibilities." I'm thinking both you guys are making the same positive suggestion.

[DonRobby]

The thing I m trying to point out is that the software has been delivered, games as well and tutorials on top so things can get rolling and then nobody tries it out.

I guess sticking with the familiar is the way to go for them but in the end VPX can never beat this.

To me VPX wil always be just a homebrew engine.

Not something created by a big team of real profesionals.

I know how expensive this engine is, I m using it myself for my fairground sims for more then 3 years now and 1500 dollars is a lot of money to invest.

But then things changed in 2015 when Unity 5 was released and now everybody can download it for free.

Unity 5 personal can do all the things that Unity 4 Pro could do.

That is the purpose of this tool, to provide a new platform.

And I also think that just throwing in a few cents to fund the costs for the engine is not a valid reason to start pointing fingers.

They have delivered the goods so they did their parts and all the things they have given you should be satisfying to don t feel ripped off .

it would also be the same for me when they only made the tool and none of the games.

To me those games are considered a bonus on top.

But these guys give their best for nothing when nobody bothers to experiment wich these tools.

So if you want to point fingers then maybe you should start thinking that the blaim is more on the lack of interest by the other developers.

And that is my personal opinion.

And I say those who don t try hold themselves back to become better then they ever can be when using VPX.

if i wasn t an outsider here and had somebody to assist me maybe I could take a swing at it myself.

I have the experience in Unity however I have totally no experience in Future Pinball
On my fairground project I also work in a team and would never do that alone as well.

[Vinthar]

"But these guys give their best for nothing when nobody bothers to experiment wich these tools."

 

Nobody bother because in current state this engine is not worth investing time and effort, because it's full of bugs and not working properly for many people, not to mention it's not optimized.

 

Yes, ffs, it has great potential.

Yes, they put a lot of work into it and I appreciate effort.

Yes, it could rock.

 

...and so what? Right now it's BETA, and from my point of view, judging by course of events and speed of development process (now on hold) it will never be anything more then beta.

And yes, I totally get it - real life, jobs, other stuff goes first. And I wish this project good.

 

But then, why not to release source code?

And it's my last post in this topic, because you clearly don't get what I mean.

Edited by Vinthar, 11 March 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[DonRobby]

The problem would be that Unit3d is made with Unity Pro 4.2.0.

Unity then jumped to 4.3 and short after that Unity 5 was released and the Unity 4 at this point in time is also still being updated ( I think 4.7.0 is the current version)

If you want to upgrade it fo Unity 5 it will give lots of new problems.

So only if you have this Unity 4 pro licence then you can keep using the old version or you will have to deal with all the changes made.

Shaders will probably not work because they have a total new physical based shader technique.

Codes have changed and could potentially give errors.

Old projects that were working correct could possibly no longer work at all.

Same as you can t directly play a VP9 game in VPX without making a lot of changes.

It's really complicated when you think about all the potential problems.

 

I also understand your point, but all the people who tried it were working blind when there were no tutorials or guidelines.

These were made later and since that day nobody tried it again.

No updates since august on this forum and the tutorial ended in late september.

What went wrong?
Were the developers trying to start out with a too difficult game?

Too much gimmicks on all the modern tables for sure.

How would it be when they just took the most basic solid state or EM table they can find and look at the tutorials so find out how things should work correct.

I guess if somebody succeeds on that he will be worthy to get acces to the source codes.

[BilboX]

Wow. So much passion in this .

 

Well, it took time to read this. Where to start?

 

First, we are glad the community helped us so far with the licences. Too bad it's now free, we have the feeling we "wasted" those licences.

We are thinking about releasing source code, but a code has to be cleaned out and on the good diretcion to be released properly.

 

We don't have the feeling that we "stole" the community: we provided a FULL game, with quite a lot of tables AND tools to help people create their own.

 

The tutorial I am doing for Elvira shows that you have pretty much anything you need to Port VPM driven tables (I admit there is missing code for original tables, which is beeing changed by the inclusion of NetProcGame).

Unfortunately, I feel like I am wasting time doing those tutorials because:

1) No feedback about it

2) Nobody has started converting FP table, excepting Chepas who made a great Roller Disco one and helped improve UP

 

So, in the current beta version, we have the feeling it's playable, provided you own a decent computer, and, in our opinion, better in this beta state that most concurrents, even commercial ones.

 

I also wanted to mention that we were approached by a lot of compagnies for UP, and we never answered positively, because we wanted to keep it free for the community. Closed source is our price, right now, to keep it this way.

 

And, just for you to know, this is one of my biggest concerns to find time for UP, because I love this project, probably more than anyone here.

I plan to port on Unity 5 btw and foresee a big fight with my girlfriend for this time .

 

Thanks guys...

Edited by BilboX, 17 March 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Vinthar]

@ BilboX

 

For me your engine was NOT working correctly last time I tried, maybe I'll try again since i upgraded my rig.

 

I guess there is Elvis in development: http://vpinball.com/...-test-is-ready/

 

Looks pretty cool.

 

https://youtu.be/66UGIC_fF1s

 

Nobody said you didn't deliver - I was just answering accusation community did not support you in any way.

 

People afraid to invest time, afraid this project becomes vaporware. No malice intended. If you find time to develop actively I am sure we will see plenty of uint3d conversion and fresh projects.

Edited by Vinthar, 17 March 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Ben Logan]

Thanks for your response, Bilbox. It's an amazing project, and it's great to hear some conversation about it. I love the Unit3d tables we have and still enjoy playing them.

[atarian]

Same here - I play the tables frequently particularly Abra and Scared Stiff which looks incredible.

[chepas]

 

I plan to port on Unity 5

 

This would be cool because those "Asset packs" (whatever they are called) were locked down to Pro users in 4 but available to all in 5.

 

It wasn't just Roller Disco I built, I have quite a few.

 

It's not difficult to make pinmame recreations at all really and it's much faster than building VP games once you get the hang of it.

Edited by chepas, 18 March 2016 - 06:01 AM.

[Ben Logan]

I'd love a chance to play some Chepas releases on a Unity 5 port! I didn't get to play Roller Disco on Unit3d, but the videos looked beautiful and had me excited for that release.

Edited by Ben Logan, 18 March 2016 - 11:15 PM.

[NJDave71]

What us the status with thy s emulator? I tried it and seems like a sunset of FP but uses. Pinmame. Tried to convert a visual pinball table but no luck

[marauder]

@BilboX: I'm 100% behind you guys on the project but I agree that you should seriously consider opening it up.

 

Maybe the lack of involvement of the community is also due to the lack of progress on the engine. People find bugs and they're not addressed until an upcoming release. Look at the process for VPX. Lots of involvement because table builder's feedback was being addressed on a daily basis.

 

You say that you "were approached by a lot of compagnies for UP, and we never answered positively, because we wanted to keep it free for the community. Closed source is our price, right now, to keep it this way." Why would making it available under an open source license make it not free for the community? You could license it under a license that would keep it free for non-commercial usage and still allow you to license it for commercial usage. I don't have any problem with you guys making a buck out of your effort.

[jean louis hamid]

Bijour,

 

si tres joli cette jeu de la flipper.

Vou croire que je pourra jouer sur ma apple pc ?

 

****************************** GOOGLE *******************************************

Jewelry,

so very nice that the pinball game.

Vou think I can play on my pc apple?

[Ben Logan]

Just played seven different Unit3d tables last night. Still totally enjoying these.

[JohnIV]

Agreed, I just built a new Intel 6700K/AMD R9 390 rig for MAME at mameui.info/bench.htm and I can now run U3D full out at highest settings and it's so much more fun.   Especially enjoying Attack from Mars, and Addams Family.  Hope to see a new version someday, but for now it's doing fine. Many thanks again for the program our French friends.

Edited by JohnIV, 05 April 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[louizou]

I do agree too, arngrim, attack from mars is UPD3D master piece !!!
Well done , BB ;-)

Playing this on pincab has no equivalent ........ IMHO....
Just brings me back to the middle 90"s ....

 

I'm just so fucking jealous !!! LOL
 

[Ben Logan]

I'm stoked to see some new comments in the Unit3d section lately. This is an amazing platform.