20 replies to this topic

[dexllgamer]

Ok, so I know Three Angels is a pig and likes to each giant CPUs and beefy Video Cards for lunch, but what gives?

Om running a AMD64 3400+, 2GB RAM, and 8800GTX 768MB, running a dual monitor cabinet @ 1680x1050 & 1280x1024.

Every other Future Pinball table works fine, just not Three Angels...

I read some stuff about how to turn certain options off, etc, but that turns it off globally, and all the other tables run just fine with the fancy stuff on.

I don't want to disable graphics options globally just for one game.

Can someone tell me how to get Three Angels running good?

Or does anyone know how to turn off graphics options from the script, so the changes are only applicable to that one specific table?


As everyone knows, Three Angels is a very good table, I just don't want to make a global exception, just because one table can't play nice with the rest.

Any tips?

Thanks

[Rawd]

I am also curious if there are any tweaks I can do.

Q6600 - 2gb ram
GTS 250 Nvidia

All of my other games run sweet. 3 Angels will start off at 60FPS, and then at certain points slows to 37FPS (seems even slower than that). If I turn off 'ornaments', then the game runs super smooth... but like you said, that changes the global option.

Sadly, I have deleted 3 Angels from my cab for this reason.

[Popotte]

Go to "Preferences" then "Editor preferences" then uncheck "Load Image into Table Editor" then "OK". Exit FP and relaunch it.

[Dizzle]

I've heard of Three Angels running really slow. And while it doesn't run as smooth as Dead Hunters, it runs perfectly fine for me on max settings. I'll have to see what FPS I'm getting when I get back home. I'm running XP SP3 with a GTS 250 and an Athlon x2 2.8Ghz. I am running the 185.85 drivers (I'm having a hard time rolling back to the 182.50 drivers for some reason) so maybe that's the issue. Needless to say, with those drivers, I'm currently not playing any VP tables.

[dexllgamer]

Go to "Preferences" then "Editor preferences" then uncheck "Load Image into Table Editor" then "OK". Exit FP and relaunch it.

Did that. That was in the Hyperpin instructions.

Seems playing on Medium with reflections (ball & table) off seems to be the only way for Three Angles.

[BlindMankind Pinball]

I think there are two important issues with 3A:

1.- The lightshows. There are a lot of scripted lightshows that uses the flashers and all the lights on the pf. That eats CPU power (at least in my computer), when everything start flashing I lost a lot of FPS.

2.- At start of a game there are 2 captive balls in the upper playfield (the guardians). When you destroy them, the FPS would improve usually (again, at least in my machine). Plus the demons (black balls) could be locked in the trap, that would add another captive ball eating more resources.

And yes, turning off 'ornaments' usually improves the FPS too.

Keep da pinball rollin'
Richard

[dexllgamer]

So, I guess there is no way to add graphics options settings to the command line script?

Has it already been suggested?

[Dizzle]

So, I guess there is no way to add graphics options settings to the command line script?

Has it already been suggested?

That would be nice.

I just rolled back to the nVidia 182.50 drivers as everyone suggests for Visual Pinball. And while I'm now able to drag the DMD on VP tables to the second monitor (I wasn't able to before), I definitely notice a performance decrease in Three Angels. In fact, the table crashed on me once. I'm not sure what to do now -- I absolutely love this table.

[xyngtai]

I have found a quick and easy fix ...for me anyways.
Everytime I tried to play 3Angels, it would always lock up when it was injecting textures....
Disable "Load image into editor" under preferences/editor option in Future PInball.
After that, runs like a charm!
Hope this help someone out there.
-Xyngtai

[TheNalex]

I have found a quick and easy fix ...for me anyways.
Everytime I tried to play 3Angels, it would always lock up when it was injecting textures....
Disable "Load image into editor" under preferences/editor option in Future PInball.
After that, runs like a charm!
Hope this help someone out there.
-Xyngtai

hum hum... you should have read the text in red : http://www.blindmank...cnopinball.org/

[xyngtai]

I did, that's how I found out....thought maybe would help others whom did not visit their website yet.

[Rawd]

Richard.. If you read this, I am hoping you can shed a little bit more light on this issue.

I have just spent a bunch of time experimenting with the graphics options in this table.

First, my setup:

- 2 monitor cabinet 1920x1080 + 1280x1024
- Quad core 6600, 2GB ram
- Nvidia 250GTS



Every single Future Pinball table on my cab runs at a smooth 60fps on the highest possible graphics settings and 6X AA (V-sync on to lock framerate at 60)

The only things that I have turned off are:

- Render the gameroom (not needed in arcaderender)
- Glass reflection (I have real glass)


- I am running both Dead Hunters and Road Girls and all other tables smoothly at 60FPS
- 3 Angels skips between 30-60 fps. When it hits 30FPS, it looks more like 15FPS (totally unplayable)


AA, graphics and ornament testing:

- If I turn off ORNAMENTS, I can get 60FPS on 3 angels at 6X AA
- If I turn on ORNAMENTS, I can get 30-60 FPS at NO AA setting. (<-----This is where I lose the logic)
- Ornaments ON.. ALL graphics settings turned down ... Still cannot achieve 60fps constant.

What are the ornaments doing to kill the FPS?

I tried going through the table and deleting each ornament one by one to try to find a culprit. Halfway through doing that, I thought I would make this post instead, to see if you, or anyone else may have any idea what is causing this. Is it one particular ornament, or is it a combination of them all being rendered?

I would really love to get this table running on my cab (I love to show it off) (I will often escape from Hyperpin, turn off ornaments and run it just to play this one table). As you can see it is driving me nutty

[epthegeek]

I'm not really having performance problems with Three Angels - but I can't seem to get rid of the playfield HUD on this game. For other games, the ~ key turns it off. That didn't work for this one for some reason. I've seen people mention "just drag it out of the way" but I can't seem to get the mouse to show up when FP is running so I can move it.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

[Rawd]

I'm not really having performance problems with Three Angels - but I can't seem to get rid of the playfield HUD on this game. For other games, the ~ key turns it off. That didn't work for this one for some reason. I've seen people mention "just drag it out of the way" but I can't seem to get the mouse to show up when FP is running so I can move it.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Open up the table and click 'translite' You will see the HUD's on the backbox. Drag them out of the main backbox area and save the table. If they won't move you may have to unlock them. If they are under some other object, you can press 1-10 on the layers to get at the HUD you need.

[Gunner]

Good info.

Edited by Gunner, 14 March 2010 - 04:55 PM.

[epthegeek]

Thanks Rawd!

[BlindMankind Pinball]

Richard.. If you read this, I am hoping you can shed a little bit more light on this issue.

Hi Rawd,

I've been testing a couple of things in 3A.

My setup:
- 1 monitor @ 1366x768
- Pentium 3Ghz, 2GB ram
- GForce 8600GTS

I have the Minimuns presets with:
-High Quality textures
-Texture Filtering TriLinear
-Anisotropic x6
-Hardware Lights x7 + Flares on flashers and pf
-Super Nice Crystal Rendering
-High Quality Pinball Models

All this numbers are taken starting a game and with the ball in the plunger lane.

(*) The Guardians are the two captive balls in the upper playfield


WITH ORNAMENTS
WITH GUARDIANS
- FPS: 60
- Ops: 1500
- Tris: 225200
- Physics: 400


WITHOUT ORNAMENTS
WITH GUARDIANS
- FPS: 80
- Ops: 1000
- Tris: 190600
- Physics: 406


WITH ORNAMENTS
WITHOUT GUARDIANS
- FPS: 80/75
- Ops: 1300/1400
- Tris: 222500
- Physics: 223


WITHOUT ORNAMENTS
WITHOUT GUARDIANS
- FPS: 110
- Ops: 1000
- Tris: 188000
- Physics: 234


I see that the ornaments affect the physics *drastically*.

-With Ornaments physics are around 400
-W/O them the physics are around 200

I really don't know why the ornaments affect so drastically the physics

I removed the guardians just to check how much affect the gameplay... Anyway without the guardians the game is crippled and cannot be played properly.

Could you give me your Ops, Tris and Physics numbers please? just start a game and let the ball rest on the plunger lane and hit F9 to check the FPS. No need to remove the guardians.

Keep da pinball rollin'
Richard

[Rawd]

Thanks Richard. This is what I found:

All settings max (4x AA) - Vsync OFF - ornaments ON

FPS: 79
op's: 1977
Tri's: 301208
Physics: 234

Says 79 FPS, but game is choppy unplayable





All settings max - Vsync ON - Ornaments ON (How I play all games)

FPS: 30-60 (It jumps between 30-60fps with the ball just waiting)
OP's: 2157
Tri's: 296580
Physics: 171

Game is playable and smooth when it says 60FPS, when it drops below that it gets very choopy, seems like 15fps




All settings Max - Vsync OFF - Ornaments OFF

FPS: 118
OP's: 1700
Tris: 262114
Physics: 158


Game plays choppy again, due to V-sync being off




All setting Max - Vsync ON - Ornaments OFF

FPS: 60 (solid)
OPS: 1374
Tris: 261334
Physics: 211

Game plays beautiful and smooth throughout.




I am on Vista 32. I have heard that Vista may run things a bit slower on my cab, so I am finally going to be installing a lite version of XP in the next few days. I will report back on any differences when I change my OS.

[BlindMankind Pinball]

I did some more testing yesterday.

1.-ORNAMENTS
I removed all the ornaments from the table manually just to check if they affect in some special way. But I found nothing. You get the same FPS if you turn off ornaments or if you remove them from the game manually (thats how it supposed to work, so it is right).

2.- TRANSPARENTS PLASTICS
I removed them all, just in case the transparency affected the engine. But the FPS were the same. So no problems with transparency.

3.- UPPER PLAYFIELD
I removed the upper playfield. But again, the FPS were the same.

4.- WIRE RAMPS
I removed all VUK, wire ramps and the ramp that leads to the upper playfield. I get about +5FPS.

5.- DIVERTERS
When I removed all diverters from the game (I had to change the script to avoid any errors ) I get about +10FPS.

I need to do more extensive testing on that.
And I wanted to remove all the lights / flashers too. So I will revert with more news.

Keep da pinball rollin'
Richard

[BlindMankind Pinball]

Hi Rawd,

I did more extensive testing this weekend.

I'm getting about 130-150 in physics with an altered game without diverters and captive balls.
Versus 350-450 with a regular game (with diverters and captive balls).

My overall conclusion is that there is no magic trick to improve the frame rate in 3A except making it simpler.
It's a complex game with dark balls, captive balls, a lot of lights, plus elaborate lightshows, multiballs, fx... etc, and I think that's what is bringing hell into the FP engine

Keep da pinball rollin'
Richard