50 replies to this topic

[Dudemeister]

I'm pretty new to Visual Pinball, and I just recently discovered the 3D functionality in the video preference menu.

 

I'm using VPX in desktop mode, connected to an LG 3D TV.  The Side-by-Side and Top & Bottom modes create proper stereo imaging, but the DMD is unusable since it's a separate overlay and just about disappears in these modes.

 

Which leads me to the LG Interlaced mode.  In Interlaced mode, it works fine, and the DMD display is perfect, but there is one problem.  The Left and Right fields are swapped. If I put the glass on Upside down, then the stereo image is fine, but if I wear the glasses normally, all you get is a headache.

 

Is there a setting somewhere that I can make (config, ini, etc) that will swap the fields?  Or perhaps implement a check box button in that same preference panel to swap the files, (somewhere next the Y Axis check box ?)

 

 

Thanks,

[toxie]

If you have a github account, i added an additional flipped interlace mode here: https://github.com/v...runs/1537124102

(otherwise please wait for the next 10.7 beta build)

[wiesshund]

I'm pretty new to Visual Pinball, and I just recently discovered the 3D functionality in the video preference menu.

 

I'm using VPX in desktop mode, connected to an LG 3D TV.  The Side-by-Side and Top & Bottom modes create proper stereo imaging, but the DMD is unusable since it's a separate overlay and just about disappears in these modes.

 

Which leads me to the LG Interlaced mode.  In Interlaced mode, it works fine, and the DMD display is perfect, but there is one problem.  The Left and Right fields are swapped. If I put the glass on Upside down, then the stereo image is fine, but if I wear the glasses normally, all you get is a headache.

 

Is there a setting somewhere that I can make (config, ini, etc) that will swap the fields?  Or perhaps implement a check box button in that same preference panel to swap the files, (somewhere next the Y Axis check box ?)

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Wear the glasses normal as upside down causes discomfort

And then, just stand on your head

 

 

Nah LOL
Go to that github link, sign up for a login, and then after signed in, on the link toxie gave, click actions

see what the latest X86 build is and download it

 

Dont take the debug builds, those are the ones that are over 100mb
get the x86 build that is about 21mb

[Dudemeister]

Got it.  thank you guys, that was really quick.

 

Quick question, does this version still use vPinMAME?  How do I use this, and preserve all my existing games and settings? Just copy the contents of this folder over the old VPX 10.6?

 

I previously had 10.7 rev338rc, but it had issues with certain games, so was only using it for the few tables that were 10.7 specific (like Deadpool, Batman DE1991 and a couple of others).  But if I'm going to use this as the main version going forward, how do I set it up?

[wiesshund]

Got it.  thank you guys, that was really quick.

 

Quick question, does this version still use vPinMAME?  How do I use this, and preserve all my existing games and settings? Just copy the contents of this folder over the old VPX 10.6?

 

I previously had 10.7 rev338rc, but it had issues with certain games, so was only using it for the few tables that were 10.7 specific (like Deadpool, Batman DE1991 and a couple of others).  But if I'm going to use this as the main version going forward, how do I set it up?

 

1) In existing VPX folder Rename VIsualPinballX.exe to VisualPinballX 10.6.exe

There, now you still have 10.6

 

2) Unzip 10.7 to a temp folder (I've a reason for going this step)

In the temp folder you unzipped to, make a folder named Doc
move all the txt files PDF files and all the JP Salas physics files into Doc, why? so they are easy to go refer to later with out a clutter of things in the root folder

 

3) IF, emphasis on IF you have custom edited your VPMKeys.vbs
Then take the one out of the scripts folder in your temp folder there and throw it into Doc just as a reference file
Reason for this is anyone who has edited VPMKeys.vbs has defined custom key bindings for vpinmame and you may wish to retain those
If you have not, then Ignore step 3

 

4) ok Cut EVERYTHING from temp folder, and paste into existing VPX folder, and allow overwriting of all 92 or so files

 

There, you have 10.7, you have 10.6 should you find need of it
and it is all nicely organized (though i can not say how organized your folder was to begin with LOL)

 

Enjoy

[Dudemeister]

I found a problem with the new 10.7.

 

It throws an error when trying to activate UltraDMD:

 

ActiveX component can't create object 'UltraDMD.DMDObject'

 

It does this on every game I tried that uses UltraDMD; Diablo Pinball, AC/DC, Serious Sam, The Web, Pink Floyd - The Wall, etc.  games that don't use UltraDMD seem to work fine.  I also tried re-installing UltraDMD, same problem.  However, previous versions, like 10.6 and 10.7 beta rev338rc work OK.

 

But here is the weird part, The same identical setup work fine on my desktop PC.  The only difference I can think of, is that the desktop PC has an nVidia graphics card, whereas the Arcade console only has an Intel NUC with Integrated HD Graphics 520 (Core i5-6260U).  COuld this be the difference?

[wiesshund]

I found a problem with the new 10.7.

 

It throws an error when trying to activate UltraDMD:

 

ActiveX component can't create object 'UltraDMD.DMDObject'

 

It does this on every game I tried that uses UltraDMD; Diablo Pinball, AC/DC, Serious Sam, The Web, Pink Floyd - The Wall, etc.  games that don't use UltraDMD seem to work fine.  I also tried re-installing UltraDMD, same problem.  However, previous versions, like 10.6 and 10.7 beta rev338rc work OK.

 

But here is the weird part, The same identical setup work fine on my desktop PC.  The only difference I can think of, is that the desktop PC has an nVidia graphics card, whereas the Arcade console only has an Intel NUC with Integrated HD Graphics 520 (Core i5-6260U).  COuld this be the difference?

 

UltraDMD does not much care what GPU you have

but i would get rid of ultraDMD anyways and install flexDMD instead.

 

ACDC should not trip any ultraDMD error though, it does not use ultraDMD, unless you have something that is not a stern ACDC table?

 

Not sure why ultraDMD is not working on the NUC though, it works fine, it is just outdated and cpu intensive and feature limited

[Dudemeister]

The AC/DC table I was referring to is this one here:

https://www.vpforums...&showfile=15189

 

As I said, UltraDMD works fine on 10.6, and the Beta 10.7, just not on this new version of VPX I downloaded VPinballX-10.7.0-356-5e2ee16-Release-win-x64.

 

Anyway, If I install FlexDMD, will games that US UltraDMD recognize it as work with it automatically, or Do I need to modify the scripts?

 

On a side note, the GPU on the i5-6260U is actually a Iris Graphics 540, not a UHD Graphics 520.  I was looking at my other NUC unit with a Core i3-6100U. The Arcade stuff is on the Core i5, I use the Core i3 for KODI.

[wiesshund]

Yea

If your freezy's DMD extensions are not up to date (version 1.9) update those

then download flexDMD and extract it into the vpinmame folder where your freezys is

then run flexDMDUI and click both register buttons, and it will replace UltraDMD

 

It is able to run all UltraDMD API content with no table coding changes

and allows for all the display customization that freezy's DMD extensions has etc.

STOP!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Hold the phone

 

 

 

just not on this new version of VPX I downloaded VPinballX-10.7.0-356-5e2ee16-Release-win-x64.

 

 

Houston we have a malfunction

 

You can not run the 64bit version, not unless you have 64bit everything else
including vpinmame, ultraDMD (which we dont have the source to compile) and b2s server

 

THAT is your issue

But still, upgrade to flexDMD
it does not cause the CPU drag on the tables that ultraDMD does

[Dudemeister]

Done.    I downloaded both the DMD extensions 1.9 and the Flex DMD, then I replaced the 64bit version of VPX with a 32bit version.  Now everything is working fine.

 

But I can't help but wonder why does it work on my workstation, but not on the NUC.  Both installatons are the same, original 32bit VPX 10.6, and 64bit VPX 10.7 on top

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Now if I could only reduce the flipper lag a bit...

Edited by Dudemeister, 05 December 2021 - 12:15 AM.

[toxie]

So does the new interlace mode work for you?

[Dudemeister]

It does, thank you.

 

It's a bit weird though.  I don't think it has anything to do with what you guys did, it's an issue with this 3D TV I'm using.  I currently have my Pinball console on a Vizio 3D TV.  This thing is an older (2013) 32" model, with electronics made by LG.  I also have a 65" LG OLED, but I haven't hooked that up yet

 

Anyway, when I first run a table and enable 3D, it does have the correct field order, but the it's "not right".  I really don't know how to explain it, it just looks strange, the 3D effect is there, but lower resolution and over-saturated somehow and a white ghost to the left of the actual image.  Toggling back and forth between 2D and 3D with F10, doesn't fix. 

 

What does fix the problem, is to select a 3D Mode from the TV OSD menu (SBS for example), it will look totally wrong, because I'm adding SBS on top of the interlace, but once I turn SBS modfe off on the TV,  I get a perfect 3D image.  From this point on, until I turn the TV off, the Interlaced mode will work perfectly, toggling back and forth with F10 works perfect as well.

 

I need to get the console setup on the LG OLED to see how that behaves, but I think the Vizio gets confused because it's showing a 3D image without actually turning the 3D on.  Once it does a 3D mode even if just for a few seconds, it seems OK for that session.

 

On a side note, I just realized that my controls input lag is TV related, not PC performance.  I hooked it up temporarily to my desktop monitor and it's instant.  Switched back to the TV, and it's laggy.  I enabled Game mode on the TV, and it's a lot better, quite playable....  BUT...  It appears that on my Vizio at least, 3D mode seems to induce lag.  I need to play around with this a bit more, and definitely try all this on the LG.

Edited by Dudemeister, 05 December 2021 - 04:31 PM.

[blindpeser]

I also have an LG 3D TV and the lag is massive.

That 3D TV technology isnt bad, but what we really need is a technology that features head tracking.

BAM is heading into the right direction, but people complain about smoothness and view issues.

[Dudemeister]

I also have an LG 3D TV and the lag is massive.

Did you enable game mode?  did it make any difference?
 

[blindpeser]

I also have an LG 3D TV and the lag is massive.

Did you enable game mode?  did it make any difference?
 

Yeah, I.enabled game mode, the lag us still huge. Compared to my VR hmd it is immense, unplayable for me.

[Dudemeister]

Yeah, well... I don't have a VR setup to compare to, but compared to my desktop monitor,I can definitely tell, especially in 3D mode.

[Gravy]

 

 

Anyway, when I first run a table and enable 3D, it does have the correct field order, but the it's "not right".  I really don't know how to explain it, it just looks strange, the 3D effect is there, but lower resolution and over-saturated somehow and a white ghost to the left of the actual image.  Toggling back and forth between 2D and 3D with F10, doesn't fix. 

 

 

 
Couple of questions, are you connected to the TV via HDMI or VGA ? If VGA, this may be adding a slight degree of fuzziness to the screen so that some of the 3D image blurs out to the next line if that makes sense?

The other thing I can think of is if you have any form of post processing going on with the TV which may cause the same issue?

and lastly, does your TV do 1:1 pixel mapping so that you can be sure that the entire 1080p image is being displayed, if it is slightly expanding the image it receives when output to the screen this may have the effect of the "every other line" interlaced 3D mode not mapping correctly.

[toxie]

Also, in the gfx card settings (at least on NVIDIA) you can choose the HDMI color output settings, e.g. YCbCr vs RGB. If i remember correctly, for my LG YCbCr resulted in a clearer image (which i don't understand at all).

[Dudemeister]

 

 

Anyway, when I first run a table and enable 3D, it does have the correct field order, but the it's "not right".  I really don't know how to explain it, it just looks strange, the 3D effect is there, but lower resolution and over-saturated somehow and a white ghost to the left of the actual image.  Toggling back and forth between 2D and 3D with F10, doesn't fix. 

 

 
Couple of questions, are you connected to the TV via HDMI or VGA ? If VGA, this may be adding a slight degree of fuzziness to the screen so that some of the 3D image blurs out to the next line if that makes sense?

The other thing I can think of is if you have any form of post processing going on with the TV which may cause the same issue?

and lastly, does your TV do 1:1 pixel mapping so that you can be sure that the entire 1080p image is being displayed, if it is slightly expanding the image it receives when output to the screen this may have the effect of the "every other line" interlaced 3D mode not mapping correctly.

 

The output is HDMI.  Those little Intel NUCs don't even have a VGA port, only HDMI and DisplayPort.   I would assume the mapping is 1:1 @ 1920 x 1080. 

 

It's going to be interesting when I hook it up this weekend in the living room to the big TV.  That's a 4K TV, so if I were to run the 3D mode at that resolution it should look absolutely amazing, but I don't think the Intel Iris Graphics in the little NUC is capable of driving the monitor at 4K with any usable frame rate.  But static images should look awesome.

 

So I plan on running the monitor at 1080p, and while I know that SBS and T/B modes would look fine (I play SBS 3D movies in 1080p all the time), I don't know if the interlaced mode will work.

 

The way I understand it, the interlaced mode takes advantage of the fact that the LG's 3D polarizing filter basically inversely polarizes every other line.  The naked eyes doesn't see it, but when wearing 3D polarizing glasses, one lens blocks all the inversely polarized lines, while the other block the normally polarized ones.  So the VPX interlaced mode, takes the left and right views and puts them on alternating lines.  This process doesn't actually involve the TV's 3D electronics, it just takes advantage of the screen's native polarization and does it's own 3D, which actually is brilliant. 

 

Except.  What happens when you display an image that is not at the native resolution?  On a 4K monitor, a 1080P image would display a single line on two lines (vertically), so Line 1 (Left field) of the 1080 image will show on lines 1 & 2 of the display and so on.  The problem is that the display polarization will let each eye see both the left and right images, spoiling the 3D effect.

 

Here is a diagram of what I think will happen:

 

 

I'll report my hands on tests this weekend.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

Anyway, when I first run a table and enable 3D, it does have the correct field order, but the it's "not right".  I really don't know how to explain it, it just looks strange, the 3D effect is there, but lower resolution and over-saturated somehow and a white ghost to the left of the actual image.  Toggling back and forth between 2D and 3D with F10, doesn't fix. 

 

 
Couple of questions, are you connected to the TV via HDMI or VGA ? If VGA, this may be adding a slight degree of fuzziness to the screen so that some of the 3D image blurs out to the next line if that makes sense?

The other thing I can think of is if you have any form of post processing going on with the TV which may cause the same issue?

and lastly, does your TV do 1:1 pixel mapping so that you can be sure that the entire 1080p image is being displayed, if it is slightly expanding the image it receives when output to the screen this may have the effect of the "every other line" interlaced 3D mode not mapping correctly.

 

The output is HDMI.  Those little Intel NUCs don't even have a VGA port, only HDMI and DisplayPort.   I would assume the mapping is 1:1 @ 1920 x 1080. 

 

It's going to be interesting when I hook it up this weekend in the living room to the big TV.  That's a 4K TV, so if I were to run the 3D mode at that resolution it should look absolutely amazing, but I don't think the Intel Iris Graphics in the little NUC is capable of driving the monitor at 4K with any usable frame rate.  But static images should look awesome.

 

So I plan on running the monitor at 1080p, and while I know that SBS and T/B modes would look fine (I play SBS 3D movies in 1080p all the time), I don't know if the interlaced mode will work.

 

The way I understand it, the interlaced mode takes advantage of the fact that the LG's 3D polarizing filter basically inversely polarizes every other line.  The naked eyes doesn't see it, but when wearing 3D polarizing glasses, one lens blocks all the inversely polarized lines, while the other block the normally polarized ones.  So the VPX interlaced mode, takes the left and right views and puts them on alternating lines.  This process doesn't actually involve the TV's 3D electronics, it just takes advantage of the screen's native polarization and does it's own 3D, which actually is brilliant. 

 

Except.  What happens when you display an image that is not at the native resolution?  On a 4K monitor, a 1080P image would display a single line on two lines (vertically), so Line 1 (Left field) of the 1080 image will show on lines 1 & 2 of the display and so on.  The problem is that the display polarization will let each eye see both the left and right images, spoiling the 3D effect.

 

Here is a diagram of what I think will happen:

 

 

I'll report my hands on tests this weekend.

 

Drive it at 2K
It may do 2K and 2K looks really good even on a 4K screen