50 replies to this topic

[Conehead]

Hi all,

 

I'm relatively new to this hobby but am quickly ramping up.  I just want to confirm that the frontends that most people use are Visual Pinball and Future Pinball?  I see some references every so often to Pinball FX3, but it doesn't seem to be a very large community (unless I'm just missing it).  And I understand that Pinball FX3 is a paid game via Steam, so is it not as easy to play it as a standalone table in your cabinet?

 

Thanks for any opinions you have.

[The Loafer]

Superfluous detail perhaps but VP/FP/FX3 are not "front ends". They are pinball "engines".  A front end would be PinballX, PinballY and PinUp Popper. 

 

As to which one people mostly use:

 

 

Visual Pinball (latest VPX 10.6, 10.7 is in early beta): 

 

Strengths:  physics are probably the best in the business, it's free.  Just about every table that's ever existed has been created and there are some cool originals.  Because of Visual Pinmame, the emulation is very accurate so that every ruleset, every light switch, every sound from the real pins are recreated in a better than expected fashion.  Development is still going strong, maybe throughout it's 19 years, we can honestly say for both table development and the VP program itself, this is the golden age!  Source code is freely available and the devs welcome suggestions.  In the right hands, an author can make a table look/sound/play just about as good as you can get imagine in digital format.  Basically if you used to love a real table, chances are it's been recreated in VPX.  Bonus:  A seperate build exists that even supports VR!

 

Weaknesses:  In some sense, the engine shows its 2d roots (dating back to 2001!).  Lights aren't real light sources.  Needs very good specs if you want to play in a cabinet environment.  For the full experience, you need a lot of different programs running (ie: one persons strength is another persons' weakness).  The hunt for table, rom, backglass, etc can be tiring sometimes.  Hey, I'm old

 

 

Future Pinball (latest version really means latest BAM update):

 

Strengths:  I think the engine dates back to 2008 but it still looks great.  It's a true 3d engine. The BAM add-on has brought new life to it, with improvements in the graphic engine, improve physics, etc.  Quite a few "original" tables that are top notch.  BAM has added tracking camera support which some people find very cool on a pincab.  BAM has also added VR support.

 

Weaknesses:  Physics are improved with BAM, but it's still not to everyone's taste.  No source code means the development of FP itself has been dead for ions.  No emulation so rules are typically not accurate when compared to real table.

 

 

Pinball FX3:

 

Strength:  FX3 is a commercial program so you don't need to hunt for anything like ROMS, it works out of the box.  Physics on latest versions for Williams tables are REALLY good.  Engine reflects the commercial roots well.  The extra modes which include neat animations is very cool (and can be turned off at a press of a button while you play).  recreation of real tables are done via emulation so you get all the ruleset, sound, etc that emulation brings.  Some cool "originals" .  Has a cabinet mode.

 

Weakness:  Because it's a commercial app, it's not the most flexible (especially for cabinet).  It's not free (well, that's not a bad thing but it's something to consider for some).  Table releases has slowed down to a crawl.  No VR support.  Yes, some cool "originals" but most tend to play to a casual audience (so maybe too easy)

 

 

Bonus:

 

Zaccaria Pinball:

 

Strengths:   Commercial program so again, you don't have to hunt for different programs.  caters to european tables that many North Americans haven't seen before.  Its 3d engine is quite decent, putting on an good lightshow.  GREAT value for what you pay.  You get to hear MY VOICE in one of the tables, can't beat that!  The menu lady is my daughter   Also has VR support, has a cabinet mode

 

Weakness:  It's not using emulation so some bugs.  The physics are very good but IMHO not really in the same class as VP or FX3 (but still good!).  I only did the one table eheh.  Also not very flexible for using front ends, etc.

Edited by The Loafer, 03 September 2020 - 05:11 AM.

[Conehead]

Thank you for a very detailed response!  Yes, I wasn't sure where to post this question since it wasn't specifically a VP or FP question, and it just seemed to fit in the Virtual Pinball category.   

 

I have a few VPX tables working, along with some pup packs, and they definitely take more configuring than FP tables for sure.  It's great to read your strengths and weaknesses between each of the engines (see?  I'm learning!), and I didn't realize that the source code for FP wasn't even available.  It's amazing that some recent tables are coming out using such a dated engine!  And thank you for confirming that FX3 supports cabinet mode.  I don't mind paying for the service if the tables are good, so I'll have to start researching how to incorporate those tables into my machine as well.  And I've just recently heard about Zaccaria Pinball but don't know much about it yet, so yes, it'll be another research project for me.

 

Thanks again!

[Sheltemke]

"VPX vs FP vs Pinball FX3"

 

I fix it for you as an answer:

 

VPX and FP and Pinball Fx3

[Conehead]

"VPX vs FP vs Pinball FX3"

 

I fix it for you as an answer:

 

VPX and FP and Pinball Fx3

 

Got it!  Thanks. 

[toxie]

You get to hear MY VOICE in one of the tables, can't beat that!  The menu lady is my daughter  

 

What?!? Cool..

[Todd]

Yep, I love all of them but I find myself playing FP the most. The tables just seem crisper and sharper graphically to me. For some reason, most of the VPX tables don't look as good. It could just be my settings though.

Edited by Todd, 03 September 2020 - 10:47 PM.

[Conehead]

I initially thought that FP tables looked a little more cartoonish than VPX tables, which is why I was leaning towards them, but some of the later games I've seen look incredible.  I could be mixing them up with FX3 games looking cartoonish though.  In any case, once I get my cab up and running I'll probably purchase the FX3 games as well as the Zaccaria ones.  Does anyone know if those are perpetual licenses once you "buy" them?

[wiesshund]

Yes, once you buy a table pack it is yours forever

[Conehead]

Yes, once you buy a table pack it is yours forever

But only provided that FX3 is stil available via Steam, yes?  i.e. if FX3 goes away on Steam then you can't run your tables anymore, if that correct?

 

And if I were to buy all the tables available on FX3, buying them via the package deals, about how much would that run me in the end, all-in?

Edited by Conehead, 04 September 2020 - 02:36 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

Yes, once you buy a table pack it is yours forever

But only provided that FX3 is stil available via Steam, yes?  i.e. if FX3 goes away on Steam then you can't run your tables anymore, if that correct?

 

And if I were to buy all the tables available on FX3, buying them via the package deals, about how much would that run me in the end, all-in?

 

 

No.
The customer purchase agreement on steam is
If you buy something, even if that thing later goes away.
You will always be able to re-download it if you need to, even though no one else can purchase it anymore.

I have a few steam things that are no longer available.
I can still re-download them, even though they are no longer available to buy.

I do not know what the pricing on FX3 stuff is

[Conehead]

 

 

Yes, once you buy a table pack it is yours forever

But only provided that FX3 is stil available via Steam, yes?  i.e. if FX3 goes away on Steam then you can't run your tables anymore, if that correct?

 

And if I were to buy all the tables available on FX3, buying them via the package deals, about how much would that run me in the end, all-in?

 

 

No.
The customer purchase agreement on steam is
If you buy something, even if that thing later goes away.
You will always be able to re-download it if you need to, even though no one else can purchase it anymore.

Yes, but what use is downloading the tables again if the engine itself is gone?

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

Yes, but what use is downloading the tables again if the engine itself is gone?

 

 

 

It wont be
If you get something on steam, even if it goes away
You can still redownload it because you originally bought it.

Like i said, i have games on steam that are not available on steam anymore.
But because i already bought them, i can redownload them from steam any time i need to.

 

[Conehead]

 

 

 

 

Yes, but what use is downloading the tables again if the engine itself is gone?

 

 

 

It wont be
If you get something on steam, even if it goes away
You can still redownload it because you originally bought it.

Like i said, i have games on steam that are not available on steam anymore.
But because i already bought them, i can redownload them from steam any time i need to.

 

 

I see what you're saying now.  The engine will never be removed, even if it's no longer available.  Thank you!

[wiesshund]

For anyone who bought it, it will always be listed in their steam library, unless they purposely chose to remove it.
So even if the title becomes no longer for sale, if you need to reinstall it, you simply pick it from your library and click install
and it re-downloads it.

 

Most of the major online game retailers work in similar fashion

[LynnInDenver]

It should be the same as FX2 (which became unavailable when FX3 was released), which I know I can still download and install content I had for it.

 

If Steam itself goes away, that would be a different issue entirely.

[Conehead]

It should be the same as FX2 (which became unavailable when FX3 was released), which I know I can still download and install content I had for it.

 

If Steam itself goes away, that would be a different issue entirely.

Yes, that was going to be my follow-up, i.e. taken at an extreme, if Steam went away then you'd be left with nothing.  No engine to play the tables on that you've downloaded and paid for, whereas if the VPX community disappears, then you still have the engine running on your cab.  Thanks for this clarification and confirmation!

[wiesshund]

 

It should be the same as FX2 (which became unavailable when FX3 was released), which I know I can still download and install content I had for it.

 

If Steam itself goes away, that would be a different issue entirely.

Yes, that was going to be my follow-up, i.e. taken at an extreme, if Steam went away then you'd be left with nothing.  No engine to play the tables on that you've downloaded and paid for, whereas if the VPX community disappears, then you still have the engine running on your cab.  Thanks for this clarification and confirmation!

 

If steam goes away, you still have what is downloaded on your PC

[Conehead]

 

 

It should be the same as FX2 (which became unavailable when FX3 was released), which I know I can still download and install content I had for it.

 

If Steam itself goes away, that would be a different issue entirely.

Yes, that was going to be my follow-up, i.e. taken at an extreme, if Steam went away then you'd be left with nothing.  No engine to play the tables on that you've downloaded and paid for, whereas if the VPX community disappears, then you still have the engine running on your cab.  Thanks for this clarification and confirmation!

 

If steam goes away, you still have what is downloaded on your PC

 

Yes, but isn't the engine itself still with Steam?  Or are you also downloading the engine to play the tables.

[wiesshund]

Steam is not the engine for any games
It is just the retailer.