87 replies to this topic

[Armyaviation]

Bigus1 has no business being allowed to mod anyones tables because all he does is makes a few small changes that probably takes him less than an hour and then releases the table as his.  I don’t mind people improving things but when he mods the amount of tables that he does, he is not improving anything, he just makes it the way he likes it.

The bad part is, YOU, spend days, months years building a table and then he comes along and sometimes mods it within days of the initial release, often without crediting anyone or even asking permission.  Then, new people come along and see two tables, the original and a mod, assume its better, and then go there to ask about how HE made the table.  He is in essence hijacking your tables!

 

Go read the comments on table release "ID4 (Sega 1996)_Bigus(MOD"

 

I made a comment to about modding everyones tables and he responded in true fashion, by acknowledging that he doesn't have any respect for the people that build these tables and a later post (page2) proves that he rips other peoples tables off without proper credit

 

From his response I take 3 things

1.  No matter hom much work you put into a table, if he doesn’t like something, he will change it and its now his
2. Everyone that spends more time than he does “building” a table, is wasting their time and should take lessons from him because it takes him MUCH less
3. I don’t know what exactly he means from his “Guatemala” comment, but I can only assume that its referring to Taito or any of the other Spanish companies maybe even European tables that aren’t Willimas, Bally, Stern…  If I were someone like JP Salas, I might be severly offended by that.

 

Why would you ever allow this guy to mod something that you spent so much time on.

 

Then you have some new person making a comment that He and JPS have the best physics, Come on seriously.  This is exactly why I don't post any of my tables on this site and why Bigus1 will never be allowed to mod my tables. 

Tom

[Rawd]

I have been around VP for a long time, and I felt 'duped' on his Fish Tales 'mod'.  I had known that Melon and Pinball58 were main contributors, but he had his name at the top of the list of authors, so I had assumed the mod was authorized and he had done a lot to improve the table.  While I appreciate anything that people can add to this hobby, I find it odd that he would put his name at the top of an authors list for a mod.

Edited by Rawd, 26 May 2020 - 06:46 AM.

[Jamal1234]

Armyaviation...serious?  Don't spoil the party for the rest of us.  What kind of a fufu boy is you?  What you don't get no love at home so you demand it from strangers on the net??  Wait...are you that same member Tom from VPinball?   If so your tables are okay for a beginning author but compared to top tier quality they are nothing and considering you seem to pride yourself on them then you must be a loser!  You be like some tweaking father with a fugly ass daughter warning dudes to stay away.  My guy if you produce trash you got nothing to worry about.

[takut]

@Armyaviation: You are right, I don't release many tables, but my Defender Table make a lot of work: https://www.vpforums...&showfile=14314

 

I release this table only on VPinball and not on this site. Bigus1 take my table, copy my description and put his name on my table and release the table on this site here. No credits that I do all the work. All my work is free to mod, but only one the side I release my work and it will be nice to have some mentioning into the credits.

Edited by takut, 26 May 2020 - 07:42 AM.

[chepas]

Why don't you take a Biggus Mod, then Mod it, then "Release" it.

 

Then Biggus can do another mod of your mod. Then just do a mod again making sure to put your name at the front.

[flstclasic]

Give it another year and every table ever made will have been made by Bigus. I vote to rename this site Bigus1Forums.org. Anyone with me?

[chepas]

Give it another year and every table ever made will have been made by Bigus. I vote to rename this site Bigus1Forums.org. Anyone with me?

Why? I counted 10 upload from Biggus and all have good review and people seem to like them. I personally haven't tried any.

 

If you didn't want it to be modded in the first place you wouldn't have uploaded it, it is that simple.

 

There's nothing to stop anybody making a minor change and uploading it, you should have known this too, even if you said "Do not mod" you'll soon find it doing the rounds anyway.

[Armyaviation]

Jamal1234, I don’t speak to morons that can’t even say a sentence in proper English when you are American. Let’s see you create a table, we’ll be waiting a while just like if Bigus1 did.

He has caused this same problem since he first came on scene, he was told, warned and still does it. I’m not saying modding is wrong, but changing a few things on every table is a personal thing. Taking your personal tables and flooding the site and acting like they are the newest and latest and greatest is threatening to the guys that actually build the tables.

Here and now, I challenge you Bigus1, don’t do another mod on anyone’s table until you build a new table from scratch. Trust me there are plenty left, I am starting on Corvette now, try ALS garage band, big hurt, The other Jurassic park, Harley Davidson, viper extreme night drivin, holy shit I thought you said there wasn’t any left. And maybe you can let your buddy Jamal do something on it to feel important.

Come on ... prove yourself and accept the challenge and I will never say anything about you mods unless you don’t get permission to do so

[STAT]

It would be the Best, that a MOD should be sent to the first Author, and he can upload it to the "one and only" Table Download Source … i "love" good MODs if they are a MOD,
but otherwise: i don't like multiple Download Sources ...

And for sure, it is 99% the Work from the first Guy !

 

Yes, that's the reason, why i skip some Mods !

 

@bigus1 try to work together with the Table Author, because - of Course, you also did some nice Work/s, also Fixes … let's do it !

Edited by STAT, 26 May 2020 - 02:40 PM.

[The Loafer]

I'd be ok if he keeps doing his mods but also just start being consistently more respectful.  Some of his work has been decent I find the BSD he had put out was a decent improvement to my eyes, while others yeah, there doesn't seem to have been much added that would constitute removal of the original authors credits.

 

Are we asking so much Bigus?  Just KEEP the authors credits and include them in the release thread.  They are the shoulders you are standing on, they did 99% of the work, do they not still merit the credit once you've done your update?  Why can't there be room for crediting them and also crediting yourself (which is ok!).

 

 

Respect is key in pretty much everything we do.  Sometimes, respect is a point of view thing but in the case of going contrary to authors wishes or willingly removing their names from the table info, it's not hard to see there's ill intent here.  In saying that, there's always a way to fix things if people just try and be understanding a bit more.  This is a dangerous path to go down.  Most don't remember this but we had to deal with "locked" tables for a while which literally split the community in two.  We def don't want to go into that situation again, was pretty ugly LOL but bottom line, the authors (along with the VP devs) are the core partners of this community.  No table authors, no devs, no community. It's as simple as that.  So yeah when a table author says "hey man, consider what you are doing" we should listen and not draw such lines as "well your table isn't THAT great", especially coming from non-authors who's only fish they want to fry is getting their next table fix.  There is more beyond just downloading a table and in the spirit of the fix you need Jamal, consider you won't get your next fix if table authors leave.

 

Nobody may be talking about packing up and leaving but like I said, not my first rodeo, it ALWAYS starts with this crap.

[jpsalas]

I remember a long time ago when you made some changes to a table and you send it to the author so if he liked the changes he could upload the table as a new revision. Many authors still do this, like Thalamus, Kiwi or 32assassin, just to name a few of them, who made some changes to some of my tables to fix some errors or improve them, being visually or script changes, so I could upload a revised version. Sometimes there are so many changes that they deserve to release it under their name I agree that in some of the latest mods I had to watch carefully and compare both tables to find out the differences. But this is just a hobby, and if you don't like a mod, then don't play it. I know that when I upload a table is automatically "freeware", and I know that someone will surely use parts of the table to build another one. In most of my vpinmame tables I have use the scripts from destruk, and many times I have not mentioned that in the script, but I try to give him credit whenever I remember  

 

I speak 4 languages but I know that I speak English like Yoda  

[Armyaviation]

The name of the game is respect. This would never be an issue if that was extended to the original author or the rest of the community. Even though this is free, we have always put some value on the work that people have done. I agree totally with JP, small mod give it to the original author to update and credit you, large mod, get permission and mod the crap out of it, no permission, build your own table. Rules to live by
Like I said, I’m not trying to start a war, but this has been brought up over and over and when it continues to happen it needs to be called out

[STAT]

"Best" Example: lets see here ID4 1.0 MOD and today's new ID 1.4 on VPinball ( new Script, Apron, Plastics, Lights ) … not a surprise, what i should use now.

Edited by STAT, 26 May 2020 - 03:15 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

First of all, guys, without modders, we wouldn't have authors. That's where most get their start. Personally, I encourage it , with permission, of course.

 

Which brings me to my next point. If it's not uploaded here, I know nothing about it. I don't visit other sites, so I have no reference. I'm not going to go searching four other sites to check, either, sorry.

 

If you want to perpetuate this nonsense of insults, we have a chatroom. I suggest you guys get together and work out your differences, or go your separate ways. On the open board, it's just not acceptable.

 

Thank you.

[STAT]

Well, Noah, now you have to say, the "Definition" to a "Modder" ...

[Noah Fentz]

Not really. Point to me one table, other than originals, that was started from scratch these days.

This community has been around for almost 20 years. It's all borrowed anymore.

[toxie]

My 2 cents: I usually try to get my hands on all tables released. ALL the Bigus MODs included.

 

But so far all of his mods reside on an external HDD, as its simply not worth it to test them all, as they offer not much over the original tables on the average. Sometimes i think they even look worse.

 

And i don't like his attitude.

[3rdaxis]

  Modding tables is how I got my start (Space Station) but no, out of respect I wouldn't dare think about uploading a table as my own without asking. Even if it was originally uploaded as "Mod: Yes without my permission" I would of course offer the modded table back to the author, and If I get no for an answer or no response (which I did not with SS) then I wouldn't just go ahead and do it anyway out of respect. Plus, these might be people that I may look too for advice and information in the future and burning bridges ain't my style.

  As far as my tables being uploaded as someone else's, personally, I don't think I would care unless there are of course other team members to consider and then we would decide collectively whether or not to allow it which is exactly what just happened to Flintstones. I can't remember his name but he made the FSS version and was kind enough to ask the team first. Which in my opinion shows great respect and will usually lead the an author giving you the go ahead anyway. 

 On the other hand, Seeing a "modded" version of one of my tables would leave me curious as to what they could have possibly come up with that I haven't already.  Bring it Bigus1

But yea If an author has his or her table uploaded as "Mod: No" Or even not, I would expect people to honor the work done out of respect and discus it with the original author first. Otherwise I would feel like a bit of a dirtbag. 

Edited by 3rdaxis, 26 May 2020 - 04:16 PM.

[bigus1]

Operation Thunder MOD is based on Rascal's VPX conversion of mfuegemann's table as noted in the credits. Ice Fever, also posted here by armyaviation, is also based on Rascal's VPX conversion. You'll need to view Rascal's submission to find out who the original authors are.  Where's the respect??? Oh the humanity!

[loserman76]

I'd be ok if he keeps doing his mods but also just start being consistently more respectful.  Some of his work has been decent I find the BSD he had put out was a decent improvement to my eyes, while others yeah, there doesn't seem to have been much added that would constitute removal of the original authors credits.

 

Are we asking so much Bigus?  Just KEEP the authors credits and include them in the release thread.  They are the shoulders you are standing on, they did 99% of the work, do they not still merit the credit once you've done your update?  Why can't there be room for crediting them and also crediting yourself (which is ok!).

 

 

Respect is key in pretty much everything we do.  Sometimes, respect is a point of view thing but in the case of going contrary to authors wishes or willingly removing their names from the table info, it's not hard to see there's ill intent here.  In saying that, there's always a way to fix things if people just try and be understanding a bit more.  This is a dangerous path to go down.  Most don't remember this but we had to deal with "locked" tables for a while which literally split the community in two.  We def don't want to go into that situation again, was pretty ugly LOL but bottom line, the authors (along with the VP devs) are the core partners of this community.  No table authors, no devs, no community. It's as simple as that.  So yeah when a table author says "hey man, consider what you are doing" we should listen and not draw such lines as "well your table isn't THAT great", especially coming from non-authors who's only fish they want to fry is getting their next table fix.  There is more beyond just downloading a table and in the spirit of the fix you need Jamal, consider you won't get your next fix if table authors leave.

 

Nobody may be talking about packing up and leaving but like I said, not my first rodeo, it ALWAYS starts with this crap.

 

Nicky Special comes to mind... god I hated that era. it's why I dropped out for like 10 years.