28 replies to this topic

[Vanblaricom0]

Hello,
For about a couple of years now i've been downloading PinMame roms for VP tables, only downloading in three time periods over these last two years. All this time i've been playing the PinMame tables without legal consent. Reason? Well it may be difficult or impossible getting legal permission. Tonight i've been thinking "What if it's easy getting legal permission?" I feel somewhat uncomfortable playing roms illegally but am comfortable knowing i'm not doing anything like selling them or sharing them, only playing them for personal or private use. What can I do to play these roms legally or obtain a licence or something? Do most people on this site obtain legal rights? I am not sure but assume not.

[TheMcD]

AFAIK you have to own the table to get the rights. But there is something different too that I can't recall ATM.

The McD

[Vanblaricom0]

I realize that you live in Germany and I live in the United States. The law may be different over there. I think over here owning the original pinball machine isn't going to make the roms legal. Maybe you can ask someone that lives here in the US what is done.

Edited by Vanblaricom0, 20 May 2009 - 04:53 PM.

[TheMcD]

Now usually, the ROM stuff is quite easy. Own the game and you can download the ROM and emulate it freely. So I can legally play, for example, Yoshi's Island or Super Mario Kart on my SNES emulator legally, because I have hard copies of the games in my trunk/closet/wherever I store them. I couldn't play Super Metroid legally, because I don't have a hard copy.

THIS, my friend, is universal. The usual (and sometimes, only) way to obtain a license for games is to own a good, old hard copy.

Now in my mind it goes *click* here, and I think that pinballs are no different. I recall a few jokes made by members how they actually had those 530 machines they play on VPM in their basement.

For all that it's worth, these laws are universal all around. However, there seems to be a way to gain that legality, as we have Gottlieb ROMs here, and IPDB doesn't. And I know we are allowed to have them here. So, maybe Noah or Destruk might know more.

The McD

[Gaston]

But in effect that would mean owning the ROM chips alone would make it legal for you to play the game in an emulator (since you actually own a hard copy of the game code), right?

Whatever... the only game I own and have a hard copy of the ROMs for, is Atari Superman for now...

[TheMcD]

But in effect that would mean owning the ROM chips alone would make it legal for you to play the game in an emulator (since you actually own a hard copy of the game code), right?

Whatever... the only game I own and have a hard copy of the ROMs for, is Atari Superman for now...

If my assumption is correct, then yes. You need a hard copy of the game code obtained legally. Or for that matter, maybe even a soft copy (Steam says hello) might count.

The McD

[Noah Fentz]

If you want to obtain a ROM legally, simply download them from sites that offer them. If they are and have been made available by the companies that produced them, or those companies allow ROMs to be hosted online, then they are legal ROMs. (e.g. here, IPDB, sternpinball.com, etc.)


Simple as that.

[Vanblaricom0]

If you want to obtain a ROM legally, simply download them from sites that offer them. If they are and have been made available by the companies that produced them, or those companies allow ROMs to be hosted online, then they are legal ROMs. (e.g. here, IPDB, sternpinball.com, etc.)


Simple as that.

You are the site administrator, so you should know alot about this legal stuff, so you must know that you are correct, right? Downloading the roms without owning the original machines is legal, which that's what it sounds like by reading your post. On the other hand...

Now usually, the ROM stuff is quite easy. Own the game and you can download the ROM and emulate it freely. So I can legally play, for example, Yoshi's Island or Super Mario Kart on my SNES emulator legally, because I have hard copies of the games in my trunk/closet/wherever I store them. I couldn't play Super Metroid legally, because I don't have a hard copy.

THIS, my friend, is universal. The usual (and sometimes, only) way to obtain a license for games is to own a good, old hard copy.

I'm not sure which is true. Noah being the site administrator probably could be the one who is correct. I've read in places on the internet that owning an original hard copy doesn't necessarily mean that owning the rom is legal. I've read all sorts of stories on the internet about owning roms legally and they're all different, and they have all lead me in thinking that it's impossible to legally own roms, so I download roms anyway. The games are fun, and I know that I can't purchase pinball machines. They are too expensive and too big. Same thing for arcade machines. Too expensive and too big. Downloading the roms is much much easier. Console video games on the other hand are much smaller and affordable. Those I prefer buying the hard copies instead of playing the roms.

I don't know which story is true. Maybe Noah Fentz, TheMcD, or someone else could tell me more about this or what is true.

Edited by Vanblaricom0, 20 May 2009 - 09:11 PM.

[Vanblaricom0]

I don't know which story is true. Maybe Noah Fentz, TheMcD, or someone else could tell me more about this or what is true.

I'm not saying that you two are simply not telling the truth, I'm only saying that one of you really do know the law behind owning roms.

[Noah Fentz]

If they are freely available online by the original manufacturers or are licensed by the sites hosting (free license or otherwise) they are legal.

[Vanblaricom0]

If they are freely available online by the original manufacturers or are licensed by the sites hosting (free license or otherwise) they are legal.

Does that mean I can download them without having a hard copy?

[Noah Fentz]

Yes.

For example, Stern hosts their ROMs right on their site. ROMs for other manufacturers have been made available online for years. They are aware of their presence and have no issue, since the companies are now defunct.

Gottlieb being the only exception to the latter. We are authorized to host them through NanoTech's license.

Enjoy.

[Vanblaricom0]

Ok. Thanks. What about roms of other systems (MAME, NES, Genesis, Computer disk and tape images, etc...). Is it ok to download those roms without having hard copies? I have a slew of them, but are on a hard drive that can't be read anymore at this point. I have MAME on disk.

[Noah Fentz]

I can't speak on those, as I only researched PinMAME ROMs when building this site.

[Vanblaricom0]

Well, anyways, it's PinMAME roms i'm really into currently. Lost interest in playing the roms of other systems. Thank you.

[Vanblaricom0]

In the MAME site there are these three options to obtain MAME roms legally...

1. You can obtain a license to them by purchasing one via a distributor or vendor who has proper authority to do so.
2. You can download one of the ROM sets that have been released for free to the public for non-commerical use (from the MAME site).
3. You can purchase an actual arcade PCB, read the ROMs or disks yourself, and let MAME use that data.

Could you or somebody possibly explain what 1 and 3 mean? Also I copied and pasted these lines from the MAME site. I'm not sure if doing that from a site such as that is legal, but let me know if it is.

[TheMcD]

1. You can obtain a license to them by purchasing one via a distributor or vendor who has proper authority to do so.
2. You can download one of the ROM sets that have been released for free to the public for non-commerical use (from the MAME site).
3. You can purchase an actual arcade PCB, read the ROMs or disks yourself, and let MAME use that data.

Kay. 1 means you find a person that has the authority to sell MAME ROMs (dunno if that actually works) and buy a license from them. 3 means you actually buy an arcade machine (or just the ROM board), rip the ROM, and let MAME use it.

The McD

[yogiholzer]

ROM = Read-Only-Memory

Originally it's a piece of hardware of machines to store the software that runs the machine save from to become modified.

If we talk of roms we mean ROM images of the software. You get these by using special soft- and hardware. Result is a copy of the content of the original machine ROM. Owning the original machine or only the board, which holds the ROM, you usually have the licence or the right to use the machines software, also to make a copy, a ROM image.

Just using available ROM images is another thing. To use available pinball roms was mostly a kind of silent agreement.

[FDSystems]

In good old radio times, my position was :they play it on the radio, so it´s ok to record it, copy it & share it, non profit only.
I feel the same about the internet.If they don´t want me to dl it copy it & share it non profit, they don´t put it on the web.
To me, whatever is available on the internet is INFORMATION, AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY.
If they are some laws that say differently, well they are outdated!

[Vanblaricom0]

1 means you find a person that has the authority to sell MAME ROMs (dunno if that actually works) and buy a license from them.

I ordered an entire collection of MAME roms from a vendor over a year and a half ago. I don't think he had the authority to sell them because in the MAME site it says that any vendor of MAME roms that burns them to disk and sells them still copyrighted is breaking the law. I don't know the whereabouts in finding a person that has the authority to sell MAME roms and buy a license from them.