14 replies to this topic

[Tesla]

The accelerometer in my Atgames Legend Pinball is a little sketchy. I have it working fairly-good in native-mode (like with Gottlieb’s Rescue 911) but I have to turn the Sensitivity up pretty high. Thing is, I find myself going to Native-mode less-and-less … but I would like to keep the native functionality of the ALP machine if possible going forward.

 

I'm really preferring OTG-Mode, where I run the Steam pinball-games and will eventually install/setup/play Visual-Pinball. I have the on-board ALP accelerometer working there also, but I feel like it's barely working and sometimes does some weird stuff that distracts from the experience as a whole.

 

I understand this is not how yall usually build-up tables, but I would really appreciate any help yall can provide and I enter these un-charted waters.

 

Questions:

 

1a. I'm assuming there is such a thing as a “standalone Accelerometer” 

 

1b. and it is seen by Windows as a 2nd Game Controller (with minimal inputs). Is that true?

 

2. So, is it possible to use two "game controllers" at once in Virtual Pinball? Can I map and use various parts of both concurrently?

 

3. What about with The Pinball Arcade (and Steam-Input). Or, do I need to test this theory first with my spare xBox360 controller and be sure I can use two at once?

 

4. Finally, can yall recommend a good one? I'm seeing some elaborate VirtuaPin and PinScape boards/kits. Do I need all that if I just need a nice accelerometer ?

Edited by Tesla, 02 February 2023 - 07:53 PM.

[Tesla]

Not sure if this is right, but I went ahead and purchased a little KL25Z board from Amazon.

 

I'm reading here (Installing an Accelerometer):

 

http://www.mjrnet.or...de.php?sid=tilt

 

It says to mount it to the floor of the cabinet (which I understand) but middle-front ? Am I correct in assuming that it works better toward the front of the cabinet because that is where the player is actually nudging the machine?

 

Finally, have yall found that a "hard mount" (like maybe with short stand-offs and screws) is best? Or a "softer mount" like maybe with double-sided foam-tape?

 

The way my cabinet is designed, that location is not easy to get to and requires substantial disassembly. I was hoping to just install it the one time and it will just work.

 

[htamas]

I have my Oak Micros Pinscape Lite board mounted at that recommended location, on short standoffs and screws. Works fine.

[Tesla]

I bought this NXP-KL25Z . I mounted it to my cabinet.

 

I used PinscapeConfigTool-20211222.zip.

 

It said it already had the current OpenSDA firmware (it was apparently pre-loaded).

 

I loaded the current Pinscape Controller software onto it. If followed the directions and programmed it for my setup. 

 

The Accelerometer seems to be working fine in the included "Joystick Viewer" and also in the Windows-10 Game-Controller Tester. I understand that's about as far as yall can help me ... in my quest to get it working with my little ALP and The Pinball Arcade (and Pinball-FX3) in Steam.

 

So, now I'm off to find out how to get TPA to work with 2 controllers directly, or somehow make TPA see the two "controllers" as one (without introducing any flipper-lag ... as they are working perfectly now).

 

When I eventually circle-back to getting Visual Pinball working, I'm sure it will be straight-forward and fairly native. I did want to mention that I mostly just followed the provided directions at http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/ and inside the Pinscape Config Tool itself. The amount of documentation and obvious work yall have put into all this is very impressive.

Edited by Tesla, 10 February 2023 - 04:42 PM.

[Slydog43]

I would like to know if you can have multiple accelerometers in a pincab and choose which one to use for nudge and which one to use for plunger.  I have a plunger (zebs I think) with an accelerometer but having some issues with it.  I would like to add another accelerometer to my cab and use that one for the nudging.  Is this possible? 

[mjr]

I would like to know if you can have multiple accelerometers in a pincab and choose which one to use for nudge and which one to use for plunger.  I have a plunger (zebs I think) with an accelerometer but having some issues with it.  I would like to add another accelerometer to my cab and use that one for the nudging.  Is this possible? 

 

Yes, but it might cause you some hassle with some of the software.

 

At the Windows level, it's perfectly fine.  The devices usually present themselves as either USB game pads or USB joysticks, and in either case, Windows is perfectly happy to have multiple such devices installed at once.  Windows has no problem telling them apart.

 

But VP and other pinball software might not be as forgiving.  The problem with VP is that it only lets you configure the axes for the plunger and accelerometer inputs - it doesn't let you choose which device it reads from.  If you have two accelerometers, and they're both sending readings on the X/Y axes, VP will in effect use the sum of the two accelerometer device inputs, which can produce pretty random-looking results.

 

If your accelerometer devices allow you to configure them at the device level to use different sets of axes, you can solve it that way - for example, tell accelerometer #1 to use the X/Y axes, and tell #2 to send data on the Rx/Ry axes.  Then you configure VP to read from the set of axes for the one device you want it to use.

[Tesla]

 

I would like to know if you can have multiple accelerometers in a pincab and choose which one to use for nudge and which one to use for plunger.  I have a plunger (zebs I think) with an accelerometer but having some issues with it.  I would like to add another accelerometer to my cab and use that one for the nudging.  Is this possible? 

 

1. If you have two accelerometers, and they're both sending readings on the X/Y axes, VP will in effect use the sum of the two accelerometer device inputs, which can produce pretty random-looking results.

 

2. If your accelerometer devices allow you to configure them at the device level to use different sets of axes, you can solve it that way - for example, tell accelerometer #1 to use the X/Y axes, and tell #2 to send data on the Rx/Ry axes.  Then you configure VP to read from the set of axes for the one device you want it to use.

 

 

@SlyDog43

 

1. In that case, maybe you can disconnect the poor Accelerometer from the Plunger assembly?

 

2. Yes, the one I purchased allows that in the Pinscape Controller config software . I don't know how to use it specifically ... but it is there. 

Edited by Tesla, 10 February 2023 - 03:22 PM.

[Tesla]

1. So, now I'm off to find out how to get TPA to work with 2 controllers directly,

 

2. or somehow make TPA see the two "controllers" as one (without introducing any flipper-lag ... as they are working perfectly now).

 

 

 

1. This is not possible, AFAIK.

 

2. I don't yet see a way with JoyToKey (or other similar intermediate softwares) either, but I'll keep looking.

 

The Pinscape controlled KL25Z is very nice and more precise than the (barely adequate) on-board accelerometer in my ALP. However, because of the above realizations ... looks like for now, it will be reserved for my use in Visual-Pinball only.

Edited by Tesla, 10 February 2023 - 04:41 PM.

[Tesla]

I got the Pinscape-KL25Z working in The Pinball Arcade, so I guess perseverance pays-off. All this “physical pinball cabinet stuff” is fairly new to me, so it takes me a while to work-through it all. 

 

The AtGames Legends Pinball machine has an on-board Accelerometer. While it is only fair, it does seems to barely work acceptably in the Native-Mode tables (like the Gottlieb ones) if calibrated properly. I don’t have any yet, but I’ve heard that Magic Pixel’s accelerometer-nudge implementation on the Zaccaria tables is a bit different.

 

These instructions are for Farsight’s The Pinball Arcade (from Steam) on the ALP (in OTG-Mode). I have the Arcooda Cabinet Addon and all the 1990’s Williams/Bally tables, so I’m eager to get TPA working as good as possible. Remember that TPA only seems to offer a one-level digital-nudge. It also only supports the mouse, the keyboard, and ONE game controller. My Windows-10 computer for OTG-Mode is just an old Dell, but it does have an Intel-i5 and a Nvidia GTX-1660.

 

If attempting to use Steam-Input, the way to get certain options to even be set properly in TPA’s Controller Options set (like using Left-Joystick for Nudge) is to temporarily connect a spare Xbox360 Controller (so you can actuate them to get them set). Later, it’s disconnected and the ALP again becomes “Game Controller #1” and it has a chance of working. I had varying degrees of success with Steam-Input but for various reasons, I had to give-up on using it. I disabled it and moved back to just JoyToKey v6.9.x in Windows-10.

 

Steam should be Installed and configured (but not currently running).

Steam-Input should be Permanently Disabled for TPA game.

JoyToKey Installed and configured (but not currently running)

Windows-10 / Devices & Printers / Game Controller / Test & Calibrate

- Game Controller #1 = ALP’s HID-Interface

-  - Defaulted only (ie, NOT calibrated) 

- Game Controller #2 = Pinscape Controller (a stand-alone KL25Z, mounted and programmed)

-  - Calibrated

 

Run JoyToKey. It should be setup with TPA’s keyboard commands. You will see the ALP’s Plunger, etc. While TPA doesn’t support two controllers, JoyToKey does … so you can set the Pinscape/KL25Z Joystick axis to the KEYBOARD’s nudge commands. It will end-up being digital-nudge, but that is all TPA seems to offer anyway. The ALP’s physical (red) buttons can still be (digital) nudge buttons if you still want those also, and the (white) buttons are the Flippers as usual. With a little thought and effort, all required TPA functions can easily be setup on the available ALP buttons (including buttons for Start, Menu, Launch Ball, Back, and D-Pad). I’m not seeing any flipper-lag inside The Pinball Arcade, so JoyToKey seems to work as good as Steam-Input in that regard. 

 

With the cabinet configured this way, the ALP’s native-mode still works. More importantly, The Pinball Arcade works in OTG-Mode with all features (and so should Pinball-FX3 and other Steam games). Finally, I don’t see any major obstacles to getting the Pinscape-KL25Z to eventually also work in Visual Pinball also.

[strells]

This seems like a lot of work to get abandoned software with pretty floaty physics and unrealistic nudging working.  Just move to VPX.  You don't even need to use J2K with it.

[Tesla]

This seems like a lot of work to get abandoned software with pretty floaty physics and unrealistic nudging working.  Just move to VPX.  You don't even need to use J2K with it.

 

Well, Farsight still sells and supports The Pinball Arcade. The Pinscape-KL25Z is required for my cabinet to run VPX the way I want (I've read it supports true analog nudge, so that will be cool). As for JoyToKey setup-notes ... just trying to contribute-some in my own way (since I don't design/program VPX tables).

 

I just though my findings might be helpful to someone. 

 

Yes, Pinball-FX3 and VPX are next on the list. 

Edited by Tesla, 10 February 2023 - 08:19 PM.

[Tesla]

This seems like a lot of work to get abandoned software with pretty floaty physics and unrealistic nudging working.  Just move to VPX.  You don't even need to use J2K with it.

 

Well, now that I got a pinscaped KL25Z accelerometer mounted, VPX v10.7.2 installed (with Flex-DMD and Freezy's DMDExt), and three nice VPX Tables installed and configured ...  I now see what you were trying to tell me.

 

I still like TPA/Arcooda but this VPX program on my ALP is very nice. It was good then, but this is quite a bit better than VP 9.x from 8 years ago. The VPX developers and the Table designers have certainly done some nice work here.

 

Thanks for the suggestion to get it done.

[Tesla]

For completeness, I wanted to post some new info. I will not erase the above post in case it is helpful to someone.

 

So, it turns-out that to properly use a Pinscaped KL25Z in VPX, it must be Defaulted (or not specifically calibrated) in Windows.

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...de.php?sid=tilt

 

In VPX, you have fully-variable analog nudge in Tables. VPX Prefs includes all the adjustments you need to fine-tune it. The KL25Z works very well.

So, once you have that working ... if you still occasionally want to run Farsight's TPA in Steam, it will be more like this:

 

Steam should be Installed and configured (but not currently running).

Steam-Input should be Permanently Disabled for TPA game.

JoyToKey Installed and configured (but not currently running)

Windows-10 / Devices & Printers / Game Controller / Test & Calibrate

- Game Controller #1 = ALP’s HID-Interface

-  - Defaulted only (ie, NOT calibrated) 

- Game Controller #2 = Pinscape Controller (a stand-alone KL25Z, mounted and programmed)

-  - Defaulted only (ie, NOT calibrated)

 

Run JoyToKey. It should be setup with TPA’s keyboard commands. You will see the ALP’s Plunger, etc. While TPA doesn’t support two controllers, JoyToKey does … so you can set the Pinscape/KL25Z Joystick axis to the KEYBOARD’s nudge commands.

 

Because of the fine movements, the old config for the Nudge in JoyToKey doesn't really work any more. For lack of anything better, this seems to work acceptably to set-off TPA's "all or nothing" Digital Nudge.

 

There is now much less movement on the joystick-axis and it seems to "recover to neutral" quicker. What seems to work pretty good is:
Keyboard Multi/ Switch Depending on Analog Input Level = Nothing < 5% < D < 6% < Nothing .
Your L/R ones should be the same and you might find the Forward-Nudge needs to be a little higher (to ignore the plunger jolt). 

 

It will end-up being digital-nudge, but that is all TPA seems to offer anyway. The ALP’s physical (red) buttons can still be (digital) nudge buttons if you still want those also, and the (white) buttons are the Flippers as usual. With a little thought and effort, all required TPA functions can easily be setup on the available ALP buttons (including buttons for Start, Menu, Launch Ball, Back, and D-Pad). I’m not seeing any flipper-lag inside The Pinball Arcade, so JoyToKey seems to work as good as Steam-Input in that regard. 

 

With the cabinet configured this way, the ALP’s native-mode still works. More importantly, The Pinball Arcade works in OTG-Mode with all features.

Edited by Tesla, 13 March 2023 - 02:12 PM.

[sprintgeek]

Thanks for the information!   im wondering if i can get this working with these instructions for Pinball FX3 / Pinball FX :-)

[Tesla]

Thanks for the information!   im wondering if i can get this working with these instructions for Pinball FX3 / Pinball FX :-)

 

Seems like so long ago. Kludgy but it worked. I hope it helps lead you in proper direction.

 

I only run VPX now-days. Of course, in there the Nudge-effect is variable.

In FarSight-Studio's "The Pinball-Arcade" (with Arcooda cabinet-addon) ... it was either just ON or OFF (interfacing with the Nudge-Buttons that they allowed to be configured and used during game-play).