30 replies to this topic

[scutters]

Hi,

 

I've recently upgraded to a 120hz gsync playfield monitor and am trying to work out the optimal settings in VPX (10.6) and nvidia. I couldn't find much info for VP GSync settings so I've used this guide https://blurbusters....nd-settings/14/ for my current settings, which are;

 

VPX

Vsync/FPS Limiter = 0

Max pre-rendered frames = 1

Exclusive fullscreen = On

Nvidia

GSync enabled

VSync = On

Max Frame Rate = 117

Low Latency Mode = On

 

These settings work great, but are they the best for VPX?. The main reason for asking is that i think i should be able to set the FPS limiter in VPX to 117 (and not set it in Nvidia) and maybe make performance even better, but when i set the VPX FPS limiter to anything but 0 or 1 FPS has spikes where it drops drastically and average FPS is ~20 frames lower. So, am i missing a setting somewhere which stops the VPX FPS limiter working as well as Nvidia frame limiter?

 

Interested to know how others have gsync configured on their setups.

 

Thanks.

Edited by scutters, 02 September 2020 - 09:07 PM.

[jpsalas]

I too have a Gsync 120Hz monitor and I simply set the Gsync on in the Nvidia CP. And in VPX I set Vsync at 0 so the card handles it. I do not set any other option in the Nvidia CP.

[scutters]

Thanks JP.

 

I've played around with the settings a bit - and read the VPX mouse over tooltip for the max prendered frames (thank you VP devs!), as i'm setting Low Latency Mode i should leave that as 0 in the game and let the nvidia driver handle it. I can't get the VPX FPS limiter to play nicely, FPS jumps all over. So i guess i'll stick with my current settings unless someone else chips in. These seem to work very well on my setup;

 

VPX

Vsync/FPS Limiter = 0

Max pre-rendered frames = 0

Exclusive fullscreen = On

Nvidia

GSync enabled

VSync = On

Max Frame Rate = 117

Low Latency Mode = On

[jpsalas]

I do not have the VSync On in Nvidia's CP. I leave it default, as Gsync take care of it.

Actually I have everything in Nvidia's CP as default, and only Gsync is on (which is on by default if it detects a Gsync monitor). The rest of the settings I set them in VPX:

 

[attachment=31399:VPX_JP_settings.jpg]

 

As you can see I do not use the Exclusive fullscreen as I mostly make tables, and I want to see the errors if they pop up, and I also use a lot the debug window.

I have an I7 cpu, even if it is quite old now, and a Nvidia 1070, and I can add all the eye candy VPX has to offer, like the ambient occlusion, and all the reflections. Also post-processed anti-aliasing is set to Quality SMAA.

[scutters]

Interesting.. from what i've read vsync should be on with gsync to stop tearing if FPS goes above refresh rate. As i'm setting an FPS cap below the refresh rate that shouldn't occur anyway, but i think if FPS drops too low for Gsync then Vsync would also kick in (not at all sure on that).

I guess you don't have any issues so I'll do some more tests on my set up (GTX1080, 4k playfield, AA off) over the weekend with default nvidia settings and see what happens with no vsync, no frame cap etc..

Edited by scutters, 03 September 2020 - 08:49 PM.

[drumdude777]

this is interesting. I have the vg27aq ASUS TUF monitor for playfield. It is labelled as gsync compatible. I have been using vsync to 1 and max prerendered set to 1.

 

In my nvidia control app, its all default, I think. If I recall, the gsync option is set to something like "let the app control it." Im not at my cabinet PC now so I cant confirm. It may just be on or off. Man I need to go check. Oh, I have a 1070 also.

 

JP, oviously I greatly respect your opinion on this -- is it best to turn on gsync in the nvidia app and turn vsync to 0 in VPX? Or gsync off in the control panel and VPX set to vsync 1? And does it matter if my monitor is just "gsync compatible?"

 

Many thanks for your input.

Edited by drumdude777, 04 September 2020 - 06:19 AM.

[jpsalas]

For VPX I don't think it doesn't matter too much what kind of vsync you are using, but if you turn it on in VPX then it is using the normal vsync. And since the monitor and the card are gsync compatible, then why not use it?

I don't see any difference, but I guess there are a lot of sites discussing vsync vs gsync.

[scutters]

@drumdude777 - If your monitor is on this list then you should be good to go with gysnc https://www.nvidia.c...monitors/specs/ , yours is. List also shows the gysnc range and the driver version needed

Definitely use gysnc if you can, it's just a lot smoother at higher refresh rates if FPS fluctuates.

[drumdude777]

Thanks a ton to both of you...and scutters, thats exactly what I needed. Will try this!

[scutters]

Ok, i tried a few settings, starting point;

VPX

Vsync/FPS Limiter = 0

Max pre-rendered frames = 1

Exclusive fullscreen = On

Nvidia

GSync enabled

VSync = Off

Max Frame Rate = Off

Low Latency Mode = Off

 

Gameplay wasn't smooth at these settings for me, when FPS went above the monitor refresh rate the ball was 'jumpy'

 

Ok.. so i needed to set the Max Frame Rate in Nvidia (as i can't get the VPX FPS limiter to work), everything suggests to go ~3 below the monitor refresh rate, set Max Frame Rate = 117.

 

Game play now smooth. F11 in VPX confirms FPS maxing out at 117.

 

https://blurbusters....nd-settings/14/ recommends setting vysnc on in nvidia. I couldn't see any difference with it on or off playing TAF, so happy to leave it off. If i see any issues later i'll turn it on.

 

Great, that's gsync running nicely.. and i could probably leave it at that for a minimum gysnc config, but as the blur busters link also suggests setting low latency mode in NVCP for Gsync  i'll do that and maybe reduce a bit of latency..

So VPX, Max pre-rendered frames = 0

 

As i've already set a max frame rate in nvidia the suggested value for low latency is On (equivalent to pre-rendered frames in VPX = 1), but playing 'felt' quicker to me with it set to Ultra, F11 stats didn't really back this up so might be a placebo (but effectively max prerendered frames is now = 0 in nvidia too, so maybe not). Setting to Ultra didn't appear to have any downside on my set up so i'll leave it, it didn't cap VPX FPS automatically as expected, so i'll leave the max frame setting in place too.

 

So my 'final' settings;

 

VPX

Vsync/FPS Limiter = 0

Max pre-rendered frames = 0

Exclusive fullscreen = On

Nvidia

GSync enabled

VSync = Off

Max Frame Rate = 117

Low Latency Mode = Ultra

 

 

For me at least these settings play fast and smooth, it's fantastic!   

 

(I did update win10 & gpu drivers before the monitor arrived as i wasn't sure on mixed refresh rates for a 3 screen cab, see https://www.notebook...t.454143.0.html. Might have had problems without that, I don't know. Worth bearing in mind in you do get some weird issues)

Edited by scutters, 05 September 2020 - 08:43 PM.

[drumdude777]

Very valuable info, scutters. Thanks a bunch for this. I think im going the right direction now.

[scutters]

Very valuable info, scutters. Thanks a bunch for this. I think im going the right direction now.

 

Glad it's of some use. I'm no expert, but the settings play well for me so i don't think i totally ballsed them up, I only play VPX though so i've no idea about how the settings would work with other engines.

[patrickcreagh]

Hi guys, 

 

Just bumping this thread with a question about putting a G-sync monitor in my 3 screen setup. I am looking to replace my 75hz 1440p playfield monitor with a 165hz  GSYNC 1440p playfield monitor.

 

I currently can run most tables anywhere from 150 - 200 fps (or more I haven't really looked - particularly light tables like JPs or older tables are likely in the 200-300 range). Some tables come close to the 75hz limit of my screen, particularly newer VPW tables etc. 

 

First question is, if I were to get this G-Sync monitor operating properly under G-sync mode, I wouldn't notice any issues/difference with the heavier tables (VPW tables  etc that run close to 75hz) would I? That is, under G-Sync, these tables would still be hitting 75-90fps and look at least as smooth as they currently do on my 75hz panel ?  They would even look a touch smoother as I would be getting the benefit of  their full FPS (say 80-90fps), and any dips below 75fps  would be smoothed out by G-Sync if I understand the technology correctly? 

 

Then I would be able to squeeze out much smoother and higher frame rates for the easier to run tables ? 

 

Just want to make sure I understand the technology before I pull the trigger on the new panel. Thanks in advance and let me know if that is unclear in any way.

 

Cheers,

Patrick

Edited by patrickcreagh, 04 February 2022 - 12:25 AM.

[wiesshund]

personally?
Id not use the gsync at all and run the monitor at a straight refresh

[patrickcreagh]

Thanks wiesshund. Would that mean I get stutter for all the tables which can't quite run at 165fps though?

 

Sorry if this is pretty simple, I'm just not very familiar with high refresh monitors in any capacity really.

[wiesshund]

Thanks wiesshund. Would that mean I get stutter for all the tables which can't quite run at 165fps though?

 

Sorry if this is pretty simple, I'm just not very familiar with high refresh monitors in any capacity really.

 

I get no stutter on an antique system that can only run 60fps max at 1280x768

 

If you want to be super anal about video quality, run though a few of your hardest to run tables
See what the average FPS is

Set your monitor to sync someplace with in that fps
and set vpx to use vsync

Lets say on your worst tables you are averaging 125 fps
Set monitor to sync at 120hz and vpx vsync to 1

and it should come out picture perfect, no stutters, not from framerates or monitor sync
and no shearing or tearing

 

There are two things people call stutters but one is not really stutter

 

1) Stutter where things are actually not keeping up and the simulation is actually skipping to try and keep up
and generally the whole table seems to run bad when this happens, you can sometimes even see the table and the ROM drift apart

 

2) pseudo stutter that resembles the ball being driven by a jackhammer firing at 9000 cycles a second
table plays fine everything looks and works fine but the ball, especially down near the flippers looks like is is suffering some kind of MG42 machinegun staccato effect.
That is usually one of 2 things
VPX is not in exclusive fullscreen mode, which lets windows mess with it
Or, VPX it getting out of sync too far with the monitor and what you are seeing is the video card and the monitor shredding the ball up
because they are not drawing it at the same time.
VPX could be at 300fps when that kind of thing happens, it's only visual, not actual preformance related.
 

[wiesshund]

A monitor is a monitor is a monitor in that aspect
they can all suffer the same issues as far as sync rate not matching frame rates.

 

What you get out of a high refresh rate monitor is this

If the PC can draw 200 frames per second and the monitor only does 60hz
then only 60 out of those 200 frames can be shown, the rest get lost

so if ball is here O then next frame ball is                                               Here O
super exaggerated
If your monitor can run at 120 Hz then 
Ball is here O  and next frame ball is               Here O

 

Again the visual example is very exaggerated, because a solid 60fps does in fact look like fluid motion to your eyes

But what that really means is, if you are very very good at pinball
you can react with the flippers faster.

If you are not very good, you might wonder "WTF is the difference, im not feeling any difference??"
That's ok, i am not good enough for it to matter either, i cant play any better on my desktop than i can my crappy laptop

 

But most importantly, you want everything to stay together to avoid visual anomolies

 

VID CARD: F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F

MONITOR: R  R R  R R  R  R R  R
*F = Frame  *R = Refresh
You want the frames and refreshes to match and you want them to deviate as little as possible (For VPX anyways)

 

You dont want this

 

F  F F F  F  F  F F   F F F F  F  F F  F   F    FFF

R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R

 

Because the pieces do not fit, and the monitor is a fixed device
Even in freesync it can only deviate in a limited exact specific set of amounts
(and to me freesync is terrible in vpx because it keeps changing and winds up inducing staccato ball as it goes switching from 40hz to 100 hz etc)

and so what happens to the pieces that dont line up is they get lost or only half displayed on the screen etc.

 

Hence ne suggesting to see what the PC can do at the worst tables, on average
and then having the PC and the monitor run together at what ever rate is close to that average

[scutters]

For me gysnc works well to keep smoothness for short drops in FPS.

 

@Patrick - my guess (and is it is a guess!) is if you ran gysnc on a 165hz monitor and the 'heavy' tables FPS didn't fluctuate too much (so fairly stable around say 80FPS) it would be fine so long as the lowest FPS value is within the monitors gsync range (link in a post above to check range), and then on the 'lighter' tables you would get the benefit of 162 FPS (or whatever you set the frame limit as).

 

But - i'm not an expert, and how a table would play if 95% of the the time it was 80FPS and 5% of the time it was somehow 160FPS i have no idea, as that is the reverse of how gsync works for me.

Edited by scutters, 04 February 2022 - 01:35 PM.

[wiesshund]

I dunno, it annoys the piss out of me
WHen it assumes nothing is going on, it tries to drop everything down as far as 40hz

 

And it and I have different ideas of nothing going on

[patrickcreagh]

Thanks wiesshund and scutters for the reply. Scutters what you've detailed is what my understanding of G-Sync would be, assuming everything works as it's intended. I guess what wiesshund's saying is it may not always work as intended. 

 

If I were to select a middle ground refresh rate of say 120hz, then I would be getting frame drops for most of the new VPW tables, Batman 66 etc - most of them operate around that 80-90fps range. That's pretty much as optimised as I can get, I'm limited by my i7 4770 on these newer tables I think. At that stage I could lock my refresh rate down to something lower but then I've not really accomplished much by buying a new screen. 

 

I may give it a crack at some point and see how I go, in any event I will report back with my findings if I do. 

 

Thanks for the input guys. 

Cheers,

Patrick