338 replies to this topic

[Slydog43]

509 fixed my issues with bad cats stuck balls, way to go guys!

[LoadedWeapon]

Ok seems like all the tables work.. So what is the new RO for? I dont notice any difference in the game... And FXAA is the same with RO on or off..

[toxie]

The Region Optimizations (in theory) help tables with a lot of overlapping table elements AND fix the mysterious 'haze' problem (Hardware/NVIDIA FXAA in combination with Hyperpin)..

Also on NVIDIA Optimus laptops it can help in addition to disabling the Region Updates..

(It's all a big confusing mess overall, but that's how VP still works)

[Slydog43]

509 found a little trouble table.  Elvis FS runs fine for me the 1st time I play it, but if I exit back to editor and then play again without quiting out of VP the flippers don't show up unless you 'flip' them.  I am using fxaa with nvidia control panel (which makes flippers look great and smooth)

Edited by Slydog43, 01 April 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[chepas]

Sorted, cheers!

[LoadedWeapon]

509 found a little trouble table.  Elvis FS runs fine for me the 1st time I play it, but if I exit back to editor and then play again without quiting out of VP the flippers don't show up unless you 'flip' them.  I am using fxaa with nvidia control panel (which makes flippers look great and smooth)

thats for 3d .. If you turn off FXAA in the NV control panel you will see that vp will still looks the same.. the FXAA in VP is software driven.. you can max out everything in the NV control panel and VP will still look about the same...FXAA will help FP out some tho..

NV FXAA off

 off.png   2.78MB   137 downloads

 

NV FXAA on

 on.png   2.61MB   138 downloads

 

 

 

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 02 April 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[Slydog43]

OK I was mistaken, I have check on and off and your right it does nothing, What I did change that made a change in the flipper quality was turning on antialias controlled by app and selecting 32x.  

 

its hard to see but flippers look much better with antialias on 32x (not sure what setting it starts at or if 32x is better than 2)

is you save the pics and flip between them you can see the difference in the flippers

Attached Files

•  no-antialias.png   1.36MB   98 downloads
•  with-antialias.png   1.38MB   97 downloads

Edited by Slydog43, 02 April 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

@LoadedWeapon and slydog43 - Are you both on Windows 7 as FXAA in nVidia control panel / hardware based indeed makes improvements in all elements on screen for VP (including flippers) if enabled under Windows XP.  If you take default nVidia control panel settings (i.e. no other AA) and simply change FXAA to on, under Windows XP it softens and smooths things out (unfortunately some of the softening can be a bit undesirable and take away a little from some nice crisp elements like playfield images).  Although, the flippers can be a bit nicer with traditional AA and there's more control of settings, FXAA is not only software based if you have your OS as XP.  The software option was just as a work around to offer Windows 7 users while waiting hopefully for nVidia to fix whatever it is in the Windows 7 drivers that isn't working in regards to FXAA and that differs from on XP (all other things being equal for VP).

 

Also slydog43, traditional AA at 32x is going to be overkill and 4x or 8xCSAA is often a good compromise between performance and visual improvement.  At 32x, under heavy alpha or GI lighting sequences, you're likely going to get significant ball stutter, probably even it disappearing for stretches.  However, maybe there might be some differences in how things play out with these latest build revisions and the newer options regarding region updates / optimizations and / or in combination with your system configuration.  If you can run at 32x and it's good, the power to you, however as a test, try JP's Attack from Mars and see how the ball behaves when you hit unlit targets in the main 3 target motorized bank as well as how it behaves while destroying the saucer during it's bouncing around (mutliple drop walls) and the alpha flashers that event triggers.  Those have been some elements that I have used to visually assess as I've had to tune my system very carefully if I wanted AA on and as smooth ball movement as possible when GI and alpha sequences take place (only using 4x AA and with decent GTX560 ti OC'd).

[LoadedWeapon]

Yea sorry if I dident say again.. I was talking about windows 7 64bit.. Fxaa does nothing to vp.. I have tried a ton of tests and like sly said even with anti on max 32 it does very little bit smooth some rough edges. But you don't lose fps so its good.

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 02 April 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[jpsalas]

I just tried rev514 and the rendering of the outerwall still doesn't work right. An example is my table Lord of the Rings 2.4

I never understood the need for that outerwall, but in older VPs the table didn't rendered right if there was no outerwall.

 

[toxie]

should be fixed with 517..

 

and outerwalls (the ones that still survived in some of the tables ) will be converted to 'standard' walls during loading now to avoid having to handle them specifically in the other code.. see f.e. the default 'new' table how that turns out..

[jpsalas]

Thanks! I think all my tables has the outerwall, and as I said I never understood the need for that inverted wall. Good that is not needed anymore

[toxie]

I don't know if it really isn't needed anymore, at least there are a lot of table that don't have it anymore, so i guess it's fine..

And if you still use it, it will be converted during loading and stored the next time you save as a 'normal' wall..

[Bob5453]

I don't know if it really isn't needed anymore, at least there are a lot of table that don't have it anymore, so i guess it's fine..
And if you still use it, it will be converted during loading and stored the next time you save as a 'normal' wall..

I don't think you can say a lot of tables don't use this wall, but it was the only object that Destruk said had to stay when he was going to change the default table once in VP.

http://www.vpforums....ic=3630&p=24030

[luvthatapex]

Have you found the reason why every version since build 476 is 25% slower?

If its because of adding directx9 support or something I understand, but it would be great if we could get back to the fps we received in build 476. 

[destruk]

I don't know if it really isn't needed anymore, at least there are a lot of table that don't have it anymore, so i guess it's fine..
And if you still use it, it will be converted during loading and stored the next time you save as a 'normal' wall..

I don't think you can say a lot of tables don't use this wall, but it was the only object that Destruk said had to stay when he was going to change the default table once in VP.

http://www.vpforums....ic=3630&p=24030

 

The only reason for that is it is a unique object that, when deleted, can't be recreated by any of the program's existing features, so you would need to have a table with an 'outerwall' to copy from if you ever wanted to get it back after removing it from the default new table.

[toxie]

Have you found the reason why every version since build 476 is 25% slower?

If its because of adding directx9 support or something I understand, but it would be great if we could get back to the fps we received in build 476. 

 

which tables and hardware did you use to measure this?

[luvthatapex]

I tested about 5 or 6 recently released tables with alpha ramps to keep things consistent with every version of the daily build and build 476 is faster than every subsequent release by around 25%. The only measure I had was the F11 fps calculator. I use this machine since if I get good performace on it, I can copy the tables directly to my cab without worry.

 

I ran the table with build 476 taking fps at ball launch, during ball 1 play when ball 2 was launched, during regular play, but not multiball since things get screwy.

 

My test machine is:

E5800 dual core, running XP service pack 3

4GB ram

nVidia GEFORCE 9400GT 1GB driver 270.61

 

Is there a better quantitative measure than the F11 fps test, which I know is a ball park estimate but I can feel the difference when playing when fps go below 250 for sure.

 

Have you found the reason why every version since build 476 is 25% slower?

If its because of adding directx9 support or something I understand, but it would be great if we could get back to the fps we received in build 476. 

 

which tables and hardware did you use to measure this?

[toxie]

Okay, which is the direct next rev number after that that you tried? 477 or higher? (so that i can nail it down to a small range)

[luvthatapex]

I noticed the decrease in fps first with build 478. Thats when I started testing the releases to see which one restored performance. So far 476 has something magical in it

 

 

Okay, which is the direct next rev number after that that you tried? 477 or higher? (so that i can nail it down to a small range)