56 replies to this topic

[BorgDog]

 

I'll have to ask Arngrim what the rationale was for Chimes 4-5.  It looks like he added them some time later than Chimes 1-3, so I bet someone requested them with some specific use in mind.  Maybe he'd be amenable to renaming them to reflect that.  (And maybe renaming Chimes 1-3 while he's at it to be more concrete as well - "Chime Unit Low/Middle/High Tone", say.)

 

 

I notice that chime 1 - 3  are now Chime Unit Low Tone, Chime Unit Mid Tone and Chime Unit High Tone.  A good result from our conversation - thanks.

 

 

great, except it's backwards from every table config I know of that uses them.

[mjr]

 

 

I'll have to ask Arngrim what the rationale was for Chimes 4-5.  It looks like he added them some time later than Chimes 1-3, so I bet someone requested them with some specific use in mind.  Maybe he'd be amenable to renaming them to reflect that.  (And maybe renaming Chimes 1-3 while he's at it to be more concrete as well - "Chime Unit Low/Middle/High Tone", say.)

 

 

I notice that chime 1 - 3  are now Chime Unit Low Tone, Chime Unit Mid Tone and Chime Unit High Tone.  A good result from our conversation - thanks.

 

 

great, except it's backwards from every table config I know of that uses them.

 

 

I didn't know he was going to act so fast!  I'll let him know about the reversal - hopefully he can update it just as quickly, before anyone gets the idea that they should rewire any tables or cabinets on account of it.

Has anyone managed to track down one of those Bally machines with the fourth chime bar (find a real physical one, I mean)?  It would be interesting to know what that fourth chime actually sounds like.

[BorgDog]

didn't think to check it out when I was at the pinball show last weekend, but I couldn't hear a damn thing anyway 

 

interesting how they did it, at least in this pic of a black jack SS it is a whole other 3 bar mech with only one bar on it.  looks like a longer bar, so lower tone even.

[BorgDog]

here's a closer on in an Eight Ball SS

 

[mjr]

interesting how they did it, at least in this pic of a black jack SS it is a whole other 3 bar mech with only one bar on it.  looks like a longer bar, so lower tone even.

 

That's great information!  The two-unit setup matches up with the diagram at Marco Specialties for the rebuild kit.  The thing I couldn't tell from the Marco diagram was the size of the fourth bar.  They have a fairly low-res sketch, and the perspective made it look like the fourth bar was the same size as the big bar in the main unit.  I figured that was wrong, since why would you bother with a fourth bar if it was the same a the third?  This is more like what I would have expected, that it's the next lower tone.  Good to have confirmation.  This means the new, more concrete DOF name for Chime 4 would be something like "Chime (Extra-Low Tone)".

[DDH69]

Interesting.  It looks like the fourth chime is longer and mounted on a second chime block that is the same as the first.  With a couple of quick measurements from the image, that means that the fourth deeper chime is using the same mounting width as the third deep chime on the fully populated frame.  If what I see is correct, then this means that the fourth chime does not have mountings at the magic 22% mark to be on a vibrating node.  Really raises the question about what that fourth chime sounds like!

[mjr]

Interesting.  It looks like the fourth chime is longer and mounted on a second chime block that is the same as the first.  With a couple of quick measurements from the image, that means that the fourth deeper chime is using the same mounting width as the third deep chime on the fully populated frame.  If what I see is correct, then this means that the fourth chime does not have mountings at the magic 22% mark to be on a vibrating node.  Really raises the question about what that fourth chime sounds like!

 

Plus the resonance chamber would be mismatched. 

 

Maybe you can pick out the four chime tones from some youtube samples:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=QFiFFXADpaQ

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=g4LeHtOccR8

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-VXdbypL2_c

[scottacus]

Listening to the video and reading through the manual for Evel Knievel I think that there are only three tones used in gameplay with the highest tone for 1000 and the lowest for 10.  I find that interesting because the Williams machines that I've worked on have the lowest tone for the 1000 and highest for the 10.  BorgDog said that Gottlieb machines followed this same pattern so I wonder if Bally went to opposite way on all of their machines or just this one?  

 

The manual says that there is a "Melody" switch 8 that can be turned on to "play several melodies to anounce power-up, game-up etc.  These tunes are intended to attract attention to the game and increase game usage."

 

If you listen to the start up of Evel Knievel you can here the horse racing song at game start up.  That song takes four notes, I think that is why that game has four chimes.  As best I can tell by listening to the game, the fourth chime is not used in game play.  I'm used to reading EM schematics where I could show you where the fourth chime is used but I'm not sure that you could see where the chime is used on a SS machine

Edited by scottacus, 07 June 2019 - 01:13 PM.

[DDH69]

I think the fourth note is C4.

 

Given that we know the other 3 notes are F#, D#, C5, through measurement of the bars from photos and some calculation, plus listening to the samples, my best guesstimate is C4.

[hlr53]

I think the fourth note is C4.

 

Given that we know the other 3 notes are F#, D#, C5, through measurement of the bars from photos and some calculation, plus listening to the samples, my best guesstimate is C4.

 

Compare it to this middle C:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=PXs8u0ITyUM

 

In the old days I tuned my guitars with a 440hz A tuning fork.

[mjr]

Good news!  Arngrim has updated the DOF config tool with a nice set of detailed chime and bell devices:

 

Chime High Tone         }

Chime Medium Tone   }    for typical three-chime units

Chime Low Tone         }

Chime Extra-Low Tone   - for the extra bar in Bally 4-chime units

Chime 5      - a DOF embellishment that doesn't correspond to any actual historical device)

 

Shell Bell Small   }   for games with two round "shell" bells in lieu of chimes, 

Shell Bell Large   }   such as Fireball

 

Repeating Bell   - for "telephone" type bells, such as in Space Shuttle and Taxi

 

Bell            - for topper bells and other large "church" bells, like in Fire!

 

 

Do any of the EM table experts around here have a list of games that used the shell-type bells?  I'd guess that a bunch of Bally games from the Fireball era used similar setups.  I'd be happy to enter toy assignment changes to refer to Arngrim for the relevant games if someone knows which games are affected.

Edited by mjr, 25 June 2019 - 11:48 PM.

[bord]

Great updates. Thank you!

I can't find evidence of any Gottlieb game having a three bar chime before mid-1969. Prior to that all wedgeheads had one or (usually two) shell bells. Sometimes one in the cab and one in the head, sometimes both in the head.

[DDH69]

Well, I finally got there and the chimes are in the cabinet.

 

Here is a photo of them mounted. 

 

Here is a video of them playing in test loop. https://youtu.be/2m84_THprus

 

Thanks for the input and assistance.  Now its time to configure them and get some VP games working with them.  Needless to say, the next release of DOFLinx supports chimes and bell from FX2, FX3 and FP.

 

[dramaone]

I attempted to build my own unit too.

The biggest obstacle I found was getting the distance of solenoids from chime bars.

It has to ping the bar to get a good sound, too close and you just get a collision, too far away it just clicks metal on metal.

 

Although it works I plan to put the solenoids on a adjustable mechanism so I can fine tune better.

 

Just for info.

[sunarf]

Good news!  Arngrim has updated the DOF config tool with a nice set of detailed chime and bell devices:

 

 

Needless to say, the next release of DOFLinx supports chimes and bell from FX2, FX3 and FP.

 

I'm just getting into the VP world and looking to purchase my first machine so please bear with me if I ask 'newbie' or 'old' questions.

 

The original topic of this thread led me to believe that VP machines didn't have the chimes/bells sounds, and would need to have actual units installed in them. This concerned me because I grew up playing the EM machines of the 70's, and two of my all-time favorites were Bally Wizard! and Capt. Fantastic. Those sounds were EVERYTHING, and not having them on a VP machine would be a huge disappointment. So after reading the entire thread and thinking 'this sucks', I came to these two posts and had a glimmer of hope.

 

Am I understanding correct that VP machines that are built today DO HAVE chimes/bells sounds included in the software configurations that will be played through the speaker system? If so, how do they sound? Are they close to, as good as, or better than the originals? 

 

Thanks for any help.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just getting into the VP world and looking to purchase my first machine so please bear with me if I ask 'newbie' or 'old' questions.

 

The original topic of this thread led me to believe that VP machines didn't have the chimes/bells sounds, and would need to have actual units installed in them. This concerned me because I grew up playing the EM machines of the 70's, and two of my all-time favorites were Bally Wizard! and Capt. Fantastic. Those sounds were EVERYTHING, and not having them on a VP machine would be a huge disappointment. So after reading the entire thread and thinking 'this sucks', I came to these two posts and had a glimmer of hope.

 

Am I understanding correct that VP machines that are built today DO HAVE chimes/bells sounds included in the software configurations that will be played through the speaker system? If so, how do they sound? Are they close to, as good as, or better than the originals? 

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

Yes, ALL of the tables that have chimes have digital chime sound samples, not built TODAY, built EVER

 

DOF simply lets one make some real chimes, if they wish to have that and not play the table's chime sounds (If the table is coded that the chime sound is a DOF effect sound)

 

How they sound depends on what sound samples the author used and how the sounds are employed

 

I have chimes in close encounters
Not that it used chimes in real life, but the chimes just were a better sound than the ROMs little bleep tones.

 

All of the period correct EM tables have chimes

 

[sunarf]

Yes, ALL of the tables that have chimes have digital chime sound samples, not built TODAY, built EVER

 

All of the period correct EM tables have chimes

 

 

 

Thank you for the explanation.