373 replies to this topic

[atarian]

ISSUE - Moved from VP10 beta thread

but i'm still having the problem with the VP player loading into the background...  you can see in this video, i select the table... you see it load fine, flashes on the screen for a second, then is forced to the back, and all you see is a black screen until you manually bring it forward.... this happens loading from PBX as will as just loading from the editor

 
Yes, I'm experiencing this as well.
 
Another issue is: disabling ddraw prevents you from resizing the DMD. So is unuseable when you don't have a dedicated third monitor for the DMD (like me).

 
yeah I didnt notice the DMD issue now... I reverted back to using windowed FS
 
I would like to hear trom the people there forced FS is working correctly on their cabs
and what their setup is... Vcard? windows 7/8/10?
 
or are we all in the same boat??

I get exactly the same as you haunt. I need to Alt-tab to the player and it's fine. A workaround in PinballX, is you can actually hit Exit, and then select 'return to table' from the menu and the VP player comes to front. This way you can avoid digging out the keyboard.

I also love the proper FS - it is silky smooth 100% of the time. Windowed FS was good after tweaking options, etc, but I still had the odd microstutter. Not so with real FS.

I don't know much on the technical side, but was wondering if when launching true full screen with the b2s this somehow minimises the fullscreen VP player. I wonder if it is possible from the VP script after the controller is launched to bring VP to the front.

Another possible solution I haven't tried yet as I am away from home, but was planning to see if I can create a simple AHK script to launch from PinballX in the 'LaunchAfterExe' option that pauses giving the b2s time to launch, and then brings the 'Visual Pinball Player' to the front.

[hauntfreaks]

keep us posted.... 

 

I dont understand why we are not seeing others saying ... yes this is happening, or no everything is working fine...

[Drybonz]

I have been using the windowed fullscreen because I'm not offered an option for 1080 true fullscreen in the video options.  I would rather use a true FS because the windowed looses focus and the taskbar pops up over it, etc...

[markrock76]

I too have trouble with it and stopped using it.  Had to Alt-Tab to playfield and also have trouble closing out of playfield but maybe I just wasn't doing that correctly.

[Slydog43]

I'm with everyone else, so I run windowsed FS until this can be fixed.  Very much looking forward to using real FS for the input lag reduction or at least that what it seems like it does.

[Shockman]

Yes. It looks like VP might be put back on the front burner at some point. Any input lag that I notice is too much, and I get way more than that. It shouldn't take that long, but even a 10th of a second should only be noticeable 1/2 the time. anything less than 1/60 I don't understand unless it is forced to just wait, or ridiculously polled.

 

AMD A10 @ 3.7

[Slydog43]

I get use to flipper lag fairly quickly, but it is kinda embarrassing when showing VP off to people that come over (especially after playing real pinball)  Not complaining, just stating what is very important.   I also praise how cool everyone is in the community and all the amazing people around here.  Thanks everyone 

[evilantal]

I have this issue as well...

Whipping up an AutoHotkey script to Alt-Tab after a few seconds shouldn't be too hard.

 

Anyone working on that already or should I take a stab? Won't have time until at least tomorrow evening, though....

[hauntfreaks]

I get use to flipper lag fairly quickly, but it is kinda embarrassing when showing VP off to people that come over (especially after playing real pinball)  Not complaining, just stating what is very important.   I also praise how cool everyone is in the community and all the amazing people around here.  Thanks everyone 

 

I couldn't agree more on other people noticing the lag... its the first thing they say, even people that haven't played pinball in 20yrs say something about it.... but i would say 90% of them get used to it within one game or less...

 

here's the really weird part, I dont feel it at all, even after play a real machine... I also dont see it effecting me when i play a real machine.... i'm guessing my brain is adjusting to is as soon as it realises what type i'm playing.... oh and no matter what version of VP I play... 8, 9, 10 (not that I ever play many 8 games) I cant feel the difference.... i do realise it is there... just dont feel it....

just a heads up on this topic... the newest version of 10.1   VPX_1_beta_rev2604  is still doing the same thing on my rig.... I had a long chat with Randr tonight, and his machine is NOT doing this... true FS IS working on his setup... how about that for odd..... 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 04 May 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

A quick comment on the overall input lag discussions in general and not just from the true FS option.  I am surprised at times with how much people are reporting it as the same versions / configurations of VP / VPX on my mini-cab have been quite good.  I of course have still noticed some improvements with different settings on my own rig, however, I can't help but think that a lot of reports are TV related vs. using a computer monitor as input lag on TVs is typically way worse than for a computer monitor by a significant amount (average TV seems to be around 50 or more ms and computer input lags mostly a fraction of that).  Even with game mode type settings / inputs / options being used on any given TV and all these other aspects, I think full / regular cabinet users are seeing much more lag due largely in that TVs and not computer monitors are used in those builds.  

 

On my mini-cab with an HV / single screen setup and Yamakasi Catleap 27 inch monitor I get very good response but have also tuned my peripheral inputs using a USB tool to poll more frequently and also couple that with using the monitor at 120hz, which further reduces lag.  And this is still while using Desktop Composition and vsync enabled (again with 120hz though vsync still yields o.k. input speeds because frame draws happen more frequently). I still can "see" / feel slight improvements with things like desktop composition disabled as well as also when running with higher FPS / Hz / vsync disabled, so as to get more frames per second / less input lag from delayed frames (but introduces stutter / smear / tearing).  Yet overall, with any of these configurations, it's not really visibly perceivable as slow or different and I just notice in how well I can connect with the ball and get backhand / back angle shots (mainly from when not cradling the ball as that can be done mentally with just tactile / touch timing vs. relying on the screen / visuals for judgement of timing the flipper presses).

 

I think that some of these input lag reports or at least to the extent of simply people watching / playing being able to immediately call out, is from not fully / properly recognizing that TVs as computer monitors, even with all their "game input" / game input enhancers, are still in a different world for input latency and that some reports at least get skewed by this.  I know most people here are technical and would consider these types of things but I still feel FS / cab input lag is in an arguably different category for a few reasons and to properly test and comment on VPX / VP itself a single screen computer monitor test scenario is more appropriate (temporarily / for diagnostic and testing purposes at least).  

Edited by jimmyfingers, 04 May 2016 - 04:53 PM.

[atarian]

I just worked out why it works for some people and not others.

If you launch b2s as an EXE it loses focus, and if you launch as Standard it doesn't!

I just tested with 3 tables. Just open B2STableSettings.XML in the tables folder, search for the ROM name, and then below that change the StartAsEXE value to 0. You can also right-click on the Back glass, hit S to see the settings. I couldn't change the table mode for some reason that way, just the default method.

My theory (ie:guess)...
When launching a separate EXE to windows it is a separate application/process and it just so happens that gets focus and VP loses focus.

So either a simple AHK might be the way to go, or don't use Exe mode although most prefer it due to performance gains.


Good points about the input lag from Jimmy. Had a mate who didn't have the basics configured properly on his TV like, game mode, picture prtocessing, etc etc. I do feel that the True FS though is almost totally lag free and being able to disable Aero feels like a weight off my shoulders .

Edited by atarian, 04 May 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[hauntfreaks]

atarian!!!..... awesome testing!!

okay dokey..... I just tested this and I can confirm on my setup this worked.... I did have to go into the XML and set it to "0" ,just setting it to standard didnt work for me

[Drybonz]

So, should the default value be changed to "0" out of the box?

[Drybonz]

Hm... my .xml doesn't have any entries in it at all... there's nothing to edit.

[Drybonz]

So, it seems like if I go into the settings by right clicking the backglass, I can click the "start as exe" (the button next to the dropdown that changes the default) and it will "unclick".  This seems to have worked for me... I no longer get the taskbar popping up over the playfield.

 

Doing this for every single table doesn't seem very practical though... especially for people with a lot of tables.

[atarian]

If you set the default to 'InExe' (on the right hand side drop down) it should use that for any new tables not currently in your XML. Strange your file was empty though?

[Drybonz]

If you set the default to 'InExe' (on the right hand side drop down) it should use that for any new tables not currently in your XML. Strange your file was empty though?

 

Thanks for the tip.  Yeah, that was the first time I have looked in that .xml... not sure why there were no settings.  Maybe they are writing somewhere else?

[hauntfreaks]

ok after talking with Randr a bit more.... one thing he has setup different then my rig was his GXT card is dedicated to his PF and he's using the onboard video for his BG....

I tested this on my rig, and it was a no go.... but... I might leave it this way to get more ram to my PF

 

so Randr is so far the only person having this working, even with his B2S set to EXE

Edited by hauntfreaks, 04 May 2016 - 10:28 PM.

[randr]

Indeed it works perfectly direct with vp. Here is screens of dos I think 20 something difference? But I also feel it seems "snappier" but maybe it's just me? This is forced fs


This is windowed fs

[Drybonz]

If I'm getting an error telling me to try a different rom when I'm trying to force fullscreen, is there some other setting I need to change?