114 replies to this topic

[petercobra666]

Hi guys.

 

Soon I'll build new cab - have learned much with current prototype one. I was wandering - since we all wants to have cabinet that looks like real one - how to mount lcd dmd monitor and be able to lay down backbox on playfield for transport. Ive found via uncle google that its possible to hack laptop lcd panel to be a lcd monitor. And since 19" laptop panel is 16:9 it should fit perfect. 

 

Looking for sugestions or other alternative ways to archive goal

 

Cheers,

Peter

[blashyrk]

For my future midsize (32" as playfield)build , i bought a 7" car monitor to use as a dmd. I paid like $30 for it and it actually worked really well. Maybe something like this will suit your needs http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f133aa9ef

Edited by blashyrk, 11 April 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[petercobra666]

Thx for idea. Will look for 10" 16x9 on local market

[miracle]

Very nice Screen ! Cool !

[mjr]

Soon I'll build new cab - have learned much with current prototype one. I was wandering - since we all wants to have cabinet that looks like real one - how to mount lcd dmd monitor and be able to lay down backbox on playfield for transport. Ive found via uncle google that its possible to hack laptop lcd panel to be a lcd monitor. And since 19" laptop panel is 16:9 it should fit perfect. 

 

I had the same requirement for my setup about folding the backbox down.  One way of course is to use a real plasma or LED DMD - those are exactly the right size for the space.  But that's expensive.  For my build I decided I'd go with a small video monitor just like you're thinking, at least for now, and maybe upgrade to plasma/LED down the line.  I also looked into converting an old laptop display, but after a little research it looked like it was non-trivial and the parts for it might cost more than a new monitor.

 

The monitor I found is the Hanns-G HL161ABB.  They run about $35 on eBay.  It's *perfectly* sized once you take the case off (which is really easy) - it's exactly the right width for the standard DMD opening (just a few pixels wider), and it's just a few millimeters taller than the panel, so it fits without any special routing or cutting of the backbox.  On mine I have it so the extra height just pokes out above the panel, but of course that's hidden behind the bottom of the translite.  It's very thin and lightweight.  

 

The caveat is that it's really crappy on viewing angle.  I guess that's why it's so cheap - it must use some old 1990s LCD technology that costs nothing to produce these days.  It's *acceptable* when you're standing at the normal playing position, because you're head-on left-to-right, although you lose a little contrast from being off-axis above (I do, at least - I think someone about 5' 6" would be right on axis).  When you move off to the side, though, it gets really bad.  You can still see the image, but it's washed out and the colors change.  I don't want to overstate it - it's still *usable* when you're off axis, and you can still see what's on the screen; you just lose a lot of contrast and color saturation compared with head-on viewing.

 

But if you can live with the viewing angle, it's just about ideal.  Perfect size and super cheap.  Given the price, I figured it's a nice stopgap until I want to spend the big bucks on a real pinball display.  Although I have to say, after playing this setup for a while, I'm actually not sure a real DMD would be an unconditional upgrade.  For the alphanumeric games, B2S uses the extra height to display the speaker panel art, which actually has significant indicator lights on some games (e.g., Earthshaker or Whirlwind).  The effect is rather nice for that generation of games; you'd lose that with a real DMD, which would be a little sad.  I'm thinking that the ultimate solution might be a 16" OLED, if those ever get to a reasonable price - that would be bright like a plasma but still give you full RGB and full graphics for the alphanumeric games.

Edited by mjr, 11 April 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[blashyrk]

About the viewing angle, a neat little trick is to turn the monitor 180 °
But i dont know if that will help with better viewing angles from the sides.

[mjr]

About the viewing angle, a neat little trick is to turn the monitor 180 °
But i dont know if that will help with better viewing angles from the sides.

 

Huh, interesting - what does the 180 trick do?

[blashyrk]

Most LCD's have a narrow vertical viewing angle but it is not evenly directed as it is from the sides - As LCD's will usually be viewed from straight ahead or looked down on slightly, if an LCD had a 90 degree viewing angle it would usually be spread in this manner. So in simple terms, looking at it from any kind of degree from below would ghost the image, whilst looking from quite high above will not ghost it. This means if you flip the monitor and instruct your graphics card to display upside down, your image should not be washed out.
(Taken from a post at arcadecontrols by turncades)
I had the same problem with my 7" , extremely bad viewing angles but once i turned it upside down no more " washed out " screen.

Edited by blashyrk, 12 April 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[mjr]

Most LCD's have a narrow vertical viewing angle but it is not evenly directed as it is from the sides - As LCD's will usually be viewed from straight ahead or looked down on slightly, if an LCD had a 90 degree viewing angle it would usually be spread in this manner. So in simple terms, looking at it from any kind of degree from below would ghost the image, whilst looking from quite high above will not ghost it. This means if you flip the monitor and instruct your graphics card to display upside down, your image should not be washed out.

 

I think you're right about the viewing angle distribution on most monitors, so I think it would actually make things worse to flip it over in this case. I have it at the standard WPC DMD position, which puts it at about 48" off the floor, so most players standing at normal playing position are already looking down on it from above.  But it might be worth experimenting; maybe this one is backwards from the usual.

[blashyrk]

That was actually the same problem i had, when i looked down on mine I almost couldn't see anything. But when i flipped it upside down the viewing angle was perfect as if i was looking directly at it.

[mjr]

That was actually the same problem i had, when i looked down on mine I almost couldn't see anything. But when i flipped it upside down the viewing angle was perfect as if i was looking directly at it.

 

Well, definitely worth a try then!

[bosvrucht]

i had a 14"  16:9 laptop screen in mine, this is the smallest monitor that can match the actual DMD size

Edited by bosvrucht, 14 April 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[blashyrk]

I did some test with my 7" monitor regarding the 180 ° trick. Set it at the height it would be mounted in my finished cabinet. When looking down at it from the distance i will be standing, the viewing angle isn't all that bad but the screen is a little bit darker than if i was looking directly at it. Then i turned the monitor upside down and i could see the difference right away, no faded colors, this works perfectly if your monitor will be mounted horizontal(at least i did for me). I didn't test it in a vertical orientation.

Edited by blashyrk, 14 April 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[mjr]

i had a 14"  16:9 laptop screen in mine, this is the smallest monitor that can match the actual DMD size

 

Did you have to do anything special to convert it from laptop use to PC use?  I haven't looked at the insides of my old laptop myself, but I've read that it requires some extra electronics because they don't usually have standard VGA/DVI connectors.

[mjr]

 

That was actually the same problem i had, when i looked down on mine I almost couldn't see anything. But when i flipped it upside down the viewing angle was perfect as if i was looking directly at it.

 

Well, definitely worth a try then!

 

Just a quick follow-up: I tried the rotation trick with the Hanns-G, and unfortunately it doesn't work with this monitor.  Its backlight is clearly optimized for viewing in a range from straight on to about 5-10 degrees above axis; brightness drops off very rapidly below axis.  So the normal orientation seems to be the right option with this particular display.

Edited by mjr, 16 April 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Andurian]

Alibaba has 12.3" visor screens:

http://www.alibaba.c..._684557728.html

Don't know the lumens or viewing angle, but the size and shape is perfect.
 

[Andurian]

Or just the screen:

http://www.alibaba.c...1622412606.html

Does any know what the interfaces on the picture are?  I've put in a request for a price quote.

Nevermind all of that - they want $410 per piece!

This, though, looks promising:

http://www.aliexpres.../545710563.html

They only sell in pairs, $276.52 for two.  There *is* an Aliexpress store that sells them singly (for $130 apiece), but a third of their feedback is negative.  The place I linked to has a 95% feedback rating over its lifetime.

I emailed them, asking if it would be possible to buy only one.  I'll let you know how it goes.

This:

http://www.aliexpres.../344633620.html

is a 10.2" for $140 from the same seller.  The 12.3" is 24:9, the 10.2" is 25:9.  If I calculate correctly, Stern's current DMDs are 24:9, so both are very close   The 12.3" is 1280x480, the 10.2" is 1440x234.  Not that resolution matters very much when you're emulating DMD blocks, I imagine.

Edited by Andurian, 17 April 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[blashyrk]

That was actually the same problem i had, when i looked down on mine I almost couldn't see anything. But when i flipped it upside down the viewing angle was perfect as if i was looking directly at it.

 
Well, definitely worth a try then!

 
Just a quick follow-up: I tried the rotation trick with the Hanns-G, and unfortunately it doesn't work with this monitor.  Its backlight is clearly optimized for viewing in a range from straight on to about 5-10 degrees above axis; brightness drops off very rapidly below axis.  So the normal orientation seems to be the right option with this particular display.

That's too bad, I hoped that it would work on most monitors.

[mjr]

Alibaba has 12.3" visor screens:

http://www.alibaba.c..._684557728.html

Don't know the lumens or viewing angle, but the size and shape is perfect.

 

I'd be really interested in hearing about it if anyone tries it.  I *suspect* that the display quality won't be very good (most likely deficiencies being contrast and viewing angle), mostly because the small display market seems to prioritize low cost way ahead of image quality, and also because critical viewing probably isn't a big concern for automotive applications.

[Andurian]

I'll probably be buying one next month.  I actually doubt it will work well, but there are *none* on eBay, so I expect if it sucks for pinball someone will buy it for it's intended visor-y purpose.  If I lose $5 or $10, well, I'll consider it a sort of lottery - if this works perfectly it'd be hard to imagine better, short of the $350 or so for a real DMD.