1388 replies to this topic

[ClarkKent]

At the moment I do not want to update to a new graphics card, I think the GTX 660 is not a slow one. I lowered the pixel lights count to about the middle, performance is better because of this. And I noticed that switching off the ball reflections also adds 5 to 10 fps here. I'm full of hope that the first release version will have a better performance, maybe with lower default settings, too.

 

The most annoying thing at the moment for me is that it does not save the cabinet settings (size and position of the playfield and backglass). I have to set this every time I run the program.

[mystman12]

Almost forgot:an important tipfor performance is to disable dmd size doubling in vpm options! The copy to unity texture will then be 4 times faster... let me know if this improved fps....

Hmm... I'll try that, but how do you change the settings?

[Zeiram]

So Unity can't handle multiple vid cards and monitors?  I appear to be in the same boat as others during cab configuration.  Both playfield and backglass appear on Display1.  No way to move the back glass to Display2, and I'm not sure how to rotate the playfield.  The playfield does look pretty nice with settings cranked up, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops!

[HowardC]

Fantastic job guys!  I thought this was one of those vaporware projects that would never get released... I'm very glad to be proven wrong on this one. 

 

In regards to the menus, I've found that D3D/OGL/Whatever slows to a crawl when rendering a font-based text, but has no slowdowns rendering sprite-based text using a simple color-key transparency.  So you might want to switch to something like that... just a thought.

 

I know this is a really early alpha so don't get annoyed but these are a few things I noticed (that you are probably well aware of).

 

1.  The DMD color is slightly off.  It looks ok rendered on the table, but not as an overlay. 

2.  When switching to true fullscreen mode, my tv, which is connected via a hdmi cable drops the audio and it's played via the pc speakers instead. 

3.  None of the dmd inputs work outside of the gameplay inputs. Reset doesn't work, ect.

4.  The bottom row or so of the DMD in the Addams family is cut off.  The others seem to be correct. 

 

 

I think the speed is pretty good.  I've got a quad core processor in this machine along with a budget ati card.  I can still get 30-60 fps in all of the games with the exception of black night in multi-ball and the Addams family if something crazy is going on. The physics fps are always high. 

 

Oh and since the DMD is now being rendered via the table, some more options would be nice.  I know my old vp wrapper had the option to make the black part of the DMD invisible and adjust the translucency of the rest and it was very popular.  Overlaying it on the table glass would also be a nice option.  It should be easy to do since the reflection effects essentially already do this. 

 

Mystman12:

Go to your visual pinmame setup... select the rom in the "test" menu and then click on the options button. 

Edited by HowardC, 22 December 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[JohnIV]

Hi, have some observations and test results/requests after working w/ the game for a few nights.

 

Setup: Windows 8.1 Pro x64, Intel e8400 oc'ed to 3.6Ghz, AMD Radeon 7950 3GB GC, 8GB ram, two monitors (main 32" 1920x1080) (secondary 27" 1920x1200).  When I play it's on the main in desktop mode.

 

1. The sound device will change from primary to secondary or third, I've seen this happen after a fresh default install and then changing and saving options for the first time (maybe changing between fullscreen real/fake fullscreen monitor types?).  When you go back in the sound device has changed, this results in no ROM sounds.  Changing it back works going forward.

2. There seems to be trouble with full screen real, I can't set it on my main monitor and often it goes black on launch with the table selector behind it out of focus, have to taskmanager and end its process.  If this happens it wrecks the install and you get the COM error and have to reset with the original options.ui.puo.

3. On launch behind the table selector/extractor the window created spans between my two monitors instead of being on the primary.

4. Possible to go straight to the game without the resolution picker step? Via shortcut for example?

5. For me at least, removing or deleting options.ui.puo does *not* re-create it on next launch.  Gives me an error in the debug console that the file is missing.

6. Request: possible to keep the options pull downs' state persistent so you don't have to keep closing the ones that never change?

7. Request: possible to leave the camera titles onscreen for a little longer?

8. Should the status/log text file be 15-20MB? Should it overwrite on each run?

 

Thanks -

 

John IV

mameui.info

Edited by JohnIV, 22 December 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[Mitchell]

The way I got around the black screen issue is to keep it at window mode on launch then switch it to full screen mode while the game is showing. Other wise patch black and noway out of the program. The program will freeze. But it doesn't freeze the computer. I was enable to get out of the black screen issue by logging out. Don't need to reboot to get out of this on Windows 8. Just don't save the settings other wise more problems.

[rockyrocket]

Made an off center video demonstrating performance playing AF with an I3 and a 660.

Addams is definitely the more demanding table of the three, gameplay is a tad choppy but hey its still early days .

[youtube][youtube]

[hotdp]

On BK2K (the only table I have tested). I have 250fps and physics are around 1k. But I have some flipper lag? From when pressing the keyboard until the flipper moves. Have any one else noticed it? (In desktop mode)

[BilboX]

 

At the moment I do not want to update to a new graphics card, I think the GTX 660 is not a slow one. I lowered the pixel lights count to about the middle, performance is better because of this. And I noticed that switching off the ball reflections also adds 5 to 10 fps here. I'm full of hope that the first release version will have a better performance, maybe with lower default settings, too.

 

The most annoying thing at the moment for me is that it does not save the cabinet settings (size and position of the playfield and backglass). I have to set this every time I run the program.

Strange. Do you click again on "Calibrate Cabinet" button after you set the display? This is when it is saved. I agree there is no feedback about that... Or maybe it cannot have write access to it. Do you have installed it on C:/ under W7? If so, you need to run in admin because the UAC prevents c:/ writing...

 

So Unity can't handle multiple vid cards and monitors?  I appear to be in the same boat as others during cab configuration.  Both playfield and backglass appear on Display1.  No way to move the back glass to Display2, and I'm not sure how to rotate the playfield.  The playfield does look pretty nice with settings cranked up, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops!

No. And it is worst, because it cannot handle multiple rendering windows. Actually, the multiscreen is a hack of Unity's window handling, using Win32 dll calls. This occurs many problems... I think the doc is not self explanatory about cab configuration, so we will make a video about that.

 

 

Hi, have some observations and test results/requests after working w/ the game for a few nights.

 

Setup: Intel e8400 oc'ed to 3.6Ghz, AMD Radeon 7950 3GB GC, 8GB ram, two monitors (main 32" 1920x1080) (secondary 27" 1920x1200).  When I play it's on the main in desktop mode.

 

1. The sound device will change from primary to secondary or third, I've seen this happen after a fresh default install and then changing and saving options for the first time (maybe changing between fullscreen real/fake fullscreen monitor types?).  When you go back in the sound device has changed, this results in no ROM sounds.  Changing it back works going forward.

2. There seems to be trouble with full screen real, I can't set it on my main monitor and often it goes black on launch with the table selector behind it out of focus, have to taskmanager and end its process.  If this happens it wrecks the install and you get the COM error and have to reset with the original options.ui.puo.

3. On launch behind the table selector/extractor the window created spans between my two monitors instead of being on the primary.

4. Possible to go straight to the game without the resolution picker step? Via shortcut for example?

5. For me at least, removing or deleting options.ui.puo does *not* re-create it on next launch.  Gives me an error in the debug console that the file is missing.

6. Request: possible to keep the options pull downs' state persistent so you don't have to keep closing the ones that never change?

7. Request: possible to leave the camera titles onscreen for a little longer?

8. Should the status/log text file be 15-20MB? Should it overwrite on each run?

 

Thanks -

 

John IV

mameui.info

Thanks for this well structured report.

1) This bug needs investigations. The default options fiel stores my screen audio output, this is maybe why it does not work well at first start.

2) FullScreenReal prevent VPM to launch correctly because VPM try to setup regular windows. That is why, when starting, Unit3D Pinball keep "window" mode until rom has been loaded, then switch to real fullscreen. That is also why you never should uncheck "window" checkbox on the loading screen. This loading screen will be removed on the next release. For now it is only used to select the RealFullScreen resolution/window size. This will be a regular option in options menu.

3) Correct. If I am not wrong, this occurs when launching with the "FakeFullscreenAll" mode saved? => to be corrected.

4) => cf upper: this window will be completely removed

5) You need to re-click on "Save" at the bottom of the options window

6) Sorry, I don't get this one... can you explain a little bit more please?

7) That won't be a problem I think

8) This is due to some unessary logs we forgot to comment. TODO => debug level (command line) with a low verbosity by default

 

Made an off center video demonstrating performance playing AF with an I3 and a 660.

Addams is definitely the more demanding table of the three, gameplay is a tad choppy but hey its still early days .

Thanks! Can you give us the "main" options used for this capture? (pixels lights, reflection quality, etc...) ?

 

On BK2K (the only table I have tested). I have 250fps and physics are around 1k. But I have some flipper lag? From when pressing the keyboard until the flipper moves. Have any one else noticed it? (In desktop mode)

Try unchecking "complex flippers". This "delay" is wanted, see the "Complex Flippers" videos about curve editor(http://www.vpforums....=57#entry244321)... This is highly tweakable. However, we tuned it from real pinballs we tried. Or maybe there is some other problems...

Fantastic job guys!  I thought this was one of those vaporware projects that would never get released... I'm very glad to be proven wrong on this one. 

 

In regards to the menus, I've found that D3D/OGL/Whatever slows to a crawl when rendering a font-based text, but has no slowdowns rendering sprite-based text using a simple color-key transparency.  So you might want to switch to something like that... just a thought.

 

I know this is a really early alpha so don't get annoyed but these are a few things I noticed (that you are probably well aware of).

 

1.  The DMD color is slightly off.  It looks ok rendered on the table, but not as an overlay. 

2.  When switching to true fullscreen mode, my tv, which is connected via a hdmi cable drops the audio and it's played via the pc speakers instead. 

3.  None of the dmd inputs work outside of the gameplay inputs. Reset doesn't work, ect.

4.  The bottom row or so of the DMD in the Addams family is cut off.  The others seem to be correct. 

 

 

I think the speed is pretty good.  I've got a quad core processor in this machine along with a budget ati card.  I can still get 30-60 fps in all of the games with the exception of black night in multi-ball and the Addams family if something crazy is going on. The physics fps are always high. 

 

Oh and since the DMD is now being rendered via the table, some more options would be nice.  I know my old vp wrapper had the option to make the black part of the DMD invisible and adjust the translucency of the rest and it was very popular.  Overlaying it on the table glass would also be a nice option.  It should be easy to do since the reflection effects essentially already do this. 

 

1) That is because "bloom effect" is not affected on additionnal dmd (just like in VP).

2) As i said to JohnIV, this needs investigations... sorry about this bug.

3) Are you talking about "VPM" inputs? Yeah, is "reset" somethink you guys really need? This creates some desynchronisations with vpm... but we can work on it if it is really needed...

4) Oh. Maybe it is due to an unfullfilled copy from VPM to texture.

Transparent DMD is definitely doable. I will put it on requests list too.

Edited by BilboX, 22 December 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Zeiram]

Given those limitations in Unity, perhaps you shouldn't try to render the BG.  Could you just leverage DB2S as a separate process?

[hotdp]

Given those limitations in Unity, perhaps you shouldn't try to render the BG.  Could you just leverage DB2S as a separate process?

 

But one of the great things about this application is that "everything" is in one program?

[chepas]

I was actually wondering that myself if the arcade wall render has any effect on performance.

[JohnIV]

Hi BliboX, thanks for the updates to the questions, here's the clarification on my item 6 above:

 

I'm talking about the state of the expanded / collapsed individual options (+ or - buttons) bar on the right when you select options.  It would be nice if you collapsed an option (that you never use like 'camera' for me, or 'sound' once set) the next time you launched the game that option was still collapsed.  That way users could just have expanded the options they tweak regularly.  Save some onscreen real estate.

 

2. I think you did say somewhere in the thread that we will be able to turn *off* the arcade room background and just have the table and a black background?

3. Might be helpful to have a user readable text configuration file you could edit that pulls in the settings from the UI.  Then we could tweak that in notepad if necessary (it's tough to know how many pixel lights are active with the current slider for example) and also post the contents here so you can simulate people's settings for bug reports etc.

4. Is there a way to control what monitor the table launches on? When I choose fake fullscreen mono, choose window check box on resolution selection screen and launch it goes to my secondary monitor, not primary.  That might be nice to throw in the text setting/config file so we can force it.

5. Is there a hidden snapshot feature that outputs a png somewhere or should we just use prtscn like FP?

 

Cheers -

 

John IV

mameui.info

Edited by JohnIV, 22 December 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[lio]

Thanks a lot for this christmas release!

It has great potential, that's for sure :-)

 

Currently I seem to have trouble running it at 1920x1200 real fullscreen - the lower "fake" fullscreen resolutions work (but then using the menus is weird because the cursor seems to be at different position than where it is drawn), so for now I'm running at 1680x1050 windowed which seems to work best for me.

 

I tried to play around with the StandardCams.xml a little but I don't quite seem to understand how these work.

I found a setting I like for BK2K but the values that work here don't seem to work well for the other two tables

I tried (maybe you could comment on what the properties really do, I added my guesses in brackets):

 

  <camera name="FP Lio" type="updown">

    <posy>500</posy> (seems to change the player height)

    <posz>1000</posz> (seems to change how high you look)

    <targetposy>400</targetposy> (seems to change how low the camera swings - or maybe it moved the camera over the table towards the back, not so sure here, either way higher values remove the rails and apron from view)

    <targetmaxposz>800</targetmaxposz>  (seems to change how much the camera can swing downwards when the ball moves towards the front of the table)

    <targetminposz>740</targetminposz> (seems to change how much the camera can swing upwards when the ball moves towards the back of the table)

  </camera>

 

I really like the position for BK2K because it does not show the full apron during play (but the camera down swing is too slow, so when the ball comes down towards the flippers the camera does not catch up fast enough) - I also like how this way it does not swing up very much towards the backbox but just a little. However these settings limit the downswing a lot too much for the other 2 tables and cut off the flippers, so I'm not really sure how the cam system works.

 

Anyways, I'm really impressed with what you have pulled off so far! Nice! Ans thank you very much for sharing!

[ringorian]

Hi and thanks for the alpha.

Is it me or is the cab view real flat ? I tried around some cams and modified some and found some nice combination which only works in One screen rotated mode, no dmd and backglass ..

Could something like this could be implemented in cab view or maybe easier to go the directb2s way where you can use standard view  ?

heres the cam, plunger right not viewed , just a test 

<camera name="VP Cameratuned2" type="fixed">

    <posy>600</posy>

    <posz>1200</posz>

    <targetposy>-50</targetposy>

    <targetposz>580</targetposz>

  </camera>

[dyopp21]

I'm lost... I've been looking through the thread for a link to download and try the alpha release but can't seem to locate it.  Can someone re-post the download link?

[mystman12]

Well, I managed to get it to run quite a bit faster! I realized that the options actually slowed down the game! So, after lowering everything as far as it would go, and closing the options menu, it ran at about 32 FPS and the physics ran at an average of 800 KHz, although the flippers caused a little lag, and it also slowed when the lights went crazy and during multiball. I also tried changing the ROM settings, but double size was already checked, and running the game seems to reset the settings. Hopefully after some improvements, I'll be able to run this without any problems!

[BilboX]

Hi BliboX, thanks for the updates to the questions, here's the clarification on my item 6 above:

 

I'm talking about the state of the expanded / collapsed individual options (+ or - buttons) bar on the right when you select options.  It would be nice if you collapsed an option (that you never use like 'camera' for me, or 'sound' once set) the next time you launched the game that option was still collapsed.  That way users could just have expanded the options they tweak regularly.  Save some onscreen real estate.

 

2. I think you did say somewhere in the thread that we will be able to turn *off* the arcade room background and just have the table and a black background?

3. Might be helpful to have a user readable text configuration file you could edit that pulls in the settings from the UI.  Then we could tweak that in notepad if necessary (it's tough to know how many pixel lights are active with the current slider for example) and also post the contents here so you can simulate people's settings for bug reports etc.

4. Is there a way to control what monitor the table launches on? When I choose fake fullscreen mono, choose window check box on resolution selection screen and launch it goes to my secondary monitor, not primary.  That might be nice to throw in the text setting/config file so we can force it.

5. Is there a hidden snapshot feature that outputs a png somewhere or should we just use prtscn like FP?

 

Cheers -

 

John IV

mameui.info

Ok, now I understand no 6 . Indeed, I thought about it once and forgot since . Noted on "Request" list

2) Yeah, forgot too => idem (really fast)

3) Actually, the config/options.ui.puo is a regular xml file. You can open it and tweak some options, but be really careful cause we won't officially support it for now (case sensitive, etc...). Regarding sliders, you are aboslutely right and we will add some visible values...

4) There is no configuration file for that currently, but it is maximized on the screen where the "window" is launched. So in game, switch to "window", move the window to your primary screen, and switch back to "FakeFullScreenMono". But you'll hav eto do it evrey time for now, sorry. We will save the position in a further release...

5) Not yet, as indeed "Print screen" works very well . If it is asked by more people, we will see what we can do...

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for this christmas release!

It has great potential, that's for sure :-)

 

Currently I seem to have trouble running it at 1920x1200 real fullscreen - the lower "fake" fullscreen resolutions work (but then using the menus is weird because the cursor seems to be at different position than where it is drawn), so for now I'm running at 1680x1050 windowed which seems to work best for me.

 

I tried to play around with the StandardCams.xml a little but I don't quite seem to understand how these work.

I found a setting I like for BK2K but the values that work here don't seem to work well for the other two tables

I tried (maybe you could comment on what the properties really do, I added my guesses in brackets):

 

  <camera name="FP Lio" type="updown">

    <posy>500</posy> (seems to change the player height)

    <posz>1000</posz> (seems to change how high you look)

    <targetposy>400</targetposy> (seems to change how low the camera swings - or maybe it moved the camera over the table towards the back, not so sure here, either way higher values remove the rails and apron from view)

    <targetmaxposz>800</targetmaxposz>  (seems to change how much the camera can swing downwards when the ball moves towards the front of the table)

    <targetminposz>740</targetminposz> (seems to change how much the camera can swing upwards when the ball moves towards the back of the table)

  </camera>

 

I really like the position for BK2K because it does not show the full apron during play (but the camera down swing is too slow, so when the ball comes down towards the flippers the camera does not catch up fast enough) - I also like how this way it does not swing up very much towards the backbox but just a little. However these settings limit the downswing a lot too much for the other 2 tables and cut off the flippers, so I'm not really sure how the cam system works.

 

Anyways, I'm really impressed with what you have pulled off so far! Nice! Ans thank you very much for sharing!

 

Louizou coded this but, from what I know, you guessed right for the options. There is another, "keepatdistance" I think, but I'll let Louizou answer. However, there is already a way to have it "by table". Just save your file in "CustomCams.xml" in the table directory, near the .upt. This should work but I never tested it .

 

 

 

Hi and thanks for the alpha.

Is it me or is the cab view real flat ? I tried around some cams and modified some and found some nice combination which only works in One screen rotated mode, no dmd and backglass ..

Could something like this could be implemented in cab view or maybe easier to go the directb2s way where you can use standard view  ?

heres the cam, plunger right not viewed , just a test 

<camera name="VP Cameratuned2" type="fixed">

    <posy>600</posy>

    <posz>1200</posz>

    <targetposy>-50</targetposy>

    <targetposz>580</targetposz>

  </camera>

 

Cab camera is not configurable at the moment but it will be as it is meant to work with tracking. Tracking will greatly improve teh depth sensation, and even more with stereo (only using Oculus rift for now). I am quite small (1,70m) so maybe the cab virtual cam is to low .

I'm lost... I've been looking through the thread for a link to download and try the alpha release but can't seem to locate it.  Can someone re-post the download link?

Indeed! it is insane, the post has been removed!!! it was on page 64, between 1276 and 1277. Maybe they tried to split as destruk suggested. Any news destruk?

 

Download links again:

http://www.unit3dpinball.net/downloads

you have to take the rar and the tables, replace vpinmame.dll, register it and launch. Read the doc. Sorry for the post disappearing....

 

Well, I managed to get it to run quite a bit faster! I realized that the options actually slowed down the game! So, after lowering everything as far as it would go, and closing the options menu, it ran at about 32 FPS and the physics ran at an average of 800 KHz, although the flippers caused a little lag, and it also slowed when the lights went crazy and during multiball. I also tried changing the ROM settings, but double size was already checked, and running the game seems to reset the settings. Hopefully after some improvements, I'll be able to run this without any problems!

Yeah! Good news . I told on a post about performances that the options takes a lot of time to be displayed. Always remove it for benchmarks. And also, when you think your settings are good, you can desactivate FPS display too.

Edited by BilboX, 22 December 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[BilboX]

IMPORTANT: FOR CLARITY PURPOSES, THE THREAD HAS BEEN SPLIT.

THIS IS CONTINUED HERE:

 

http://www.vpforums....showtopic=26236

 

PLEASE, POST ANSWERS THERE! THANKS!

[HowardC]

Thanks for the reply. 

 

In regards to #1, even if the bloom is causing the issue (I don't think it is because I've turned it off) that isn't what I'm talking about.  Lets say I set the DMD color to pure green, just for testing purposes.... now on the table it's more or less the correct color, but with the overlay it'll be a bluish green.  It isn't a slight difference, they are totally different colors.  In other words the color of the dmd rendered on the table, with bloom on or off is correct, while the overlay isn't.  I can post snaps if it'll help.