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Because This Needs to be Addressed ...


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#1 Noah Fentz

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 04:00 PM

A lot of things about this hobby have been really, really bothering me, and I think it's high time to address them ...
 
Over at VPU, Dazz has kindly replied to a post I made, shared over there ...
 

It looks like VPD and VPF are teaming up to try and take down VPU... Not really, but gotta love being picked on to make others look righteous.

ASDASDASDASD.thumb.PNG.f605fc019827fdcfd

Since I've been banned from VPF for many years now and haven't used the site for just as long.. I have no way to respond directly.  For a while now; I thought Paul and I were on a way to understanding that both communities are important to the overall health and well being of the hobby.  I thought that we had a common interest at hand and Paul even sent me a PM asking if I needed help getting additional info about VPD. Today it seems that he has decided to spew a bunch of bullshit.  

If he wants to attack me and my character... I'll just lump Paul/Noah Fentz aka offended by everying, (haha get it... No ahFentz) in the same category as VPD if he want's to play this game.

VPU has NEVER had anything to do with money. First and foremost; VPU has always been about community.  Yes, VPU was initally created as a "spite site" (quote from Paul/Noah)... It was created out of spite due the fact that myself along with several others were treated like shit by Paul/Noah.  His constant promising of fixes & concerns by the community that fell on deaf ears. Issues that could have been easily fixed, never were, and eventually drove several of us long timers away.  We teamed up to create a place where it wasn't ruled by a dictatorship and away from the rules of Noah.  VPU had several content creators that all felt the same way toward the owner of VPF.  Those content creators released content specifically for VPU and we created a following.  I never intended for VPU to be where we are today, but here we are.

1. Basic SAM emulation was secretly added by Destruk (PinMAME Team) and VPF to a private DLL. The DLL's containing SAM emulation were found on commercially available GlobalVR/UltraPin machines, in which contained tables created by... you guessed it Destruk and a couple others from VPF. This SAM emulation was made specifically for and reportedly *sold* to GlobalVR.  It was being held back by VPF and the PinMAME team mebers at the time. It was to be only shared privately, along with horribly built tables, amongst only the elite members on VPForums. I personally had nothing to do with the initial code leak being made public, but the posted did release it on Christmas Eve on VPU.  VPU did take the broken / unfinished code, added LE rom support, fixed the bugs in the code and released the DLLs for it to the public. Yes, this may have been a tunring point for VPU at the time, but the site wasn't created specifically for that. Yes, we went against VPF's rules.  We changed the rules and released tables using SAM emulation... rules that, to this day, no single person has ever seen in writing or have any proof of. It's just been passed around as a rule of thumb.  Has anything ever come out of releasing that code? No; if anything it furthered and engineered a new era of Virtual Pinball.

 
This is exactly why I have had ZERO respect for Dazz and VPU. To the point where I filtered the URL. Now maybe everyone can understand. Here's a guy with little to no involvement (long standing, my ass!) taking something that's not his and posting it against the wishes of those who didn't want that it out there. The VPM Team, no less! You know, the guys that have made this hobby possible as it is today?

This makes VPU and Dazz no better, in my eyes, and likely worse, than the dreaded 'VPD guy'. Anyone supporting this crap is right there with him.
 

2. Backglasses from Flying Dutchaman... Wildman has always been in charge of the backglasses on VPU.  To this day, @Wildman, runs a pretty clean ship and produces some of the best looking backglasses around. I honestly don't know if any of FD's images were ever used or not in the creation of any B2S's. I personally never used any for my creations, but can't speak for anyone else. There has never been any proof if they were or were not, just acquisations and butthurt. For the most part; backglass images were found the same way that Flying Dutchaman found them and how a lot of our backglasses and table artwork is found today.  It's called GOOGLE, Ebay, online stores, image dumps, etc.  Noah has always been very jealous that the majority of backglasses and backglass creators started to specifically release on VPU.


Flying Dutchman himself reported it. I reported it, and I proved it with our download logs. One for one, the backglass files went up in exact, and I mean exact, correlation with his downloads here. It's even been confirmed by several 'little birdies'. Ken isn't a very good 'Keeper of Secrets'. I get it! You desperately needed content. Your site is full of unauthorized MODs, by the way.
 

3. VPU subscriptions were modeled off of VPForums subscriptions that have been in place for 15+ years, timers, limits and all. They have been prooven to work against bots & site scrapers. Practice what you preach... For 8 years I ran the site purely on donations.  Many months the donations didn't even come close to covering any costs. I paid all operating costs directly from my own personal pocket.  When VPinball.com fell; I stepped up and offered to take over VPinball as it was and continue the site so content wasn't lost.  I knew damn well that VPF wasn't going to step-up their game; and to this day still hasn't.  I tossed a bunch of my own money into getting VPU stable enough to handle increased traffic.  The community stepped up and showed their support...  The subscription model has worked, but it hasn't even been a year. VPU brings in about $1400 per month. Renewal rates have yet to be seen...  As I mentioned above... less than 0.8% of 46,000 registered members are those that either have a subscription or donated to VPU.  I'd assume that come renewal time; that percentage will decrease.  If it weren't for the subscriptions saving this site; this site would be gone ala VPinball 2.0.

"Billy needs the money to buy new pinball machines"  This part has me rolling... Yes, I do own 2 pins. I have a 1969 Gottlieb Road Race that I got when I was 2 years old and my HyperPin 2125 Pincab that I built in 2010, still running on an i5 with a 970 GPU at 1080p. One machine is located in my bedroom and the other in the dining room of my small 1 bedroom apartment in a suburb of Dallas. I drive a beatup 2013 Kia Soul with over 100,000 miles on it and I'm living the American Dream of living paycheck to paycheck from a job that I work 50-60 hours per week for. SHOW ME THE MONEY, PLEASE!!? I wish I could afford a pin, but I'd have no room to put it anyway. Thankfully, I am privlidged in the fact that I do have many close friends that have large and amazing gamerooms/pinball collections.

 
Billy, Billy, Billy. Your cover was blown years ago when I was informed of your plans. This is just more rationalization and weak justification of what you're up to.
 
 

My turn...
 
1. VPF has been in operation since the early 90s.  It was originally created by AJ along with a couple other founding members, some of which can be found on Pinball Nirvana. Noah acquired VPF via a hostile takeover and forced removal of its admins.  The site has been a dictatorship ever since.


LOL. That's all I really have ... LOL. You do realize I didn't 'take down' AJ's VPForums, right? I hope you're not that stupid. We, and I say WE, started this site, because AJ's sucked. Bad. It was time. Good thing, too! AJ's went offline right around the time we opened, in an unrelated incident.
 

2. VPF claims ownership to anything and everything related to Visual Pinball/PinMAME.  VPF might as well join VPD in trying to copywrite the terms "Virtual Pinball".  Uploading to VPF states that anything uploaded becomes property of VPF. Authors DO NOT have control over their files or the ability to have their content removed from the site if they desire.


Still trying to figure out where you came up with this. I always say none of us own any of this. Just another baseless attack. I can think of several takedown requests recently honored. We just don't take down content when we know the request is someone being petty. Don't care who it is.
 

3. VPForums created a business (VirtuaPin) that is and still should be considered a direct conflict of interest. Directly using community created content to supplement the business.


Conflict of interest? Perfect synergy, you mean. As we approach our 10,000th customer, I look back and see nothing but helping and supporting this community. I'm very proud of all the work we've done, and I look forward to many more years of serving our community members and providing the very best products at the very best possible price. That's why I started it in the first place, and you've done nothing but try to destroy it. Is it any wonder why I find you loathsome?

 

By the way, I have never, EVER, shipped with tables and ROMs installed. I'm also the ONLY one to legally LICENSE Visual Pinball. I do things right, and I have conducted my business with nothing but the utmost integrity. There are hundreds of members here who can tell you exactly that. Enough with the lies.
 

4. VPF deters builders from coming up with innovations because he wants to sell his parts and only his parts. VPF does not allow any competing products to be mentioned or sold by community members in the VPF community.  This includes the most popular DIY DMD, [[[[[[Pin2DMD uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ].


Not even a little bit true. Numerous product ads have been posted, but none that have been stolen from me. I know you know this, Dazz, because you snapped that shit up like a deep-fried Twinkie. Lucky1 asked us to use Russ' DMD code for his project, and we both said NO! That should have been it, but that somehow motivated him to just do it anyway. It's theft. No different than taking someone's table and uploading it without permission. You bet your ass it won't be advertised here! Lucky1 was also pirating PinDMD v2's, as well. More theft. You keep on supporting that garbage, man! I wouldn't have it here, even if it was YOU they stole it from. It's called ETHICS.
 

nib11.jpg.463b771a8e0353136cd6f704d5d72d
 
That image got your attention, eh? 
 
Did you know that VirtuaPin, owned by the VPForums owner, was directly implicated in the fraud case with Skit-B regarding the Predator machine that was never made?  If you aren't familiar with this case; let's put this in perspective... Remember Deeproot Pinball? Skit-B puts Deeproot to shame.  Rumors have it that the CNC machine menioned in the legal case below is still owned and in use by Virtuapin. 

The Skit-B Predator discussion is still a very lively discussion on Pinside. Check it out.
https://pinside.com/...ator-discussion


So many lies, but this one is a lie of omission. Why not tell the complete story, Billy? That wouldn't be conducive to your attempts to slander me (again and again), right? The case has been closed for 5 years? We were 100% EXONERATED from any wrongdoing. Dismissed, with Prejudice. Not something you can try to use against me, sorry.

I thought you didn't like people dragging your work into this? VirtuaPin is PROUDLY my livelihood, and, again, you're no different than the 'VPD guy' when he contacted your work, trying to damage your very livelihood. I had your back, because it was the RIGHT thing to do. That's how I roll.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I am happy to answer any questions, address any concerns, and generally take any crap anyone is willing to give me. I can take it simply because I know VPU is the unethical, lying sack of human excrement Dazz is (based on his behavior. I'm sure in a different life, we would get along just fine). It's his hovel, after all.

 

I'm even happy to remove your deserved and well-earned ban, Dazz. Come play with me, so everyone can see just what you are. I'm sick of your bullshit, sick of your lies, and sick of the gullible members you've duped.


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#2 johnsland8

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 11:28 PM

I'm a baby to this hobby.  I don't know anything about anything.  I got sucked  in quickly though.  It only took me a couple of days of research to identify that there was one leading forum for virtual pinball information and then there were the rest.  I initially found some decent content at VPU but was quickly turned off by the childish back and forth going on between VPU and VPD, and I now try to avoid them.

 

Please, please, please, don't get sucked into that cesspool.  People are drawn here because of the members and the content.  Try to keep your focus there, I'm sure that's what has made you successful.

 

Those of us who don't know the whole truth will probably figure it out on our own, and those that can't, maybe it's best they move along.

 

Just my opinion, of course.  I already admitted I don't know anything.



#3 lizard

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 12:18 AM

This makes VPU and Dazz no better, in my eyes, and likely worse, than the dreaded 'VPD guy'. Anyone supporting this crap is right there with him.

 

Surely you don't belive that. 



#4 goodvibes

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 01:11 AM

Generally speaking,  insanity is understood as a mental defect or disease that makes it impossible for a defendant to understand their actions, or to understand that their actions are wrong.

 

A defendant found to be  insane can assert an insanity defense.

 

In the case of Dazz from vpuniverse and all his rants over the last six months and bashing me and bigus1 and Noah and other people, he just wants his site to be the only one out there, he wants to be the dictator to all the un educated and brain wash them with pure fabricated lies about me and my site and other people, anybody who stands up against him or his community get banned or named and shamed with plenty of fabricated lies, Im the real vpd, not one of his little bandits posting everywhere trying to make me and my site look bad. Im actualy very normal.

 

I have never signed up to his site with multiple accounts or discord.

 

He is the one or someone from his communty who signed up as Terry red and Major frenchy ,

 

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see how and who the finger would point to, Yes ofcourse me and my site.

Well the ip addresses of those accounts were based in the us Dallas , Gee i wonder who that was. I am not Dave or Daryl Im Damian.

 

A lot of you have been brain washed by this man and his actions, with fabricated content and dillusinal posts on his site , he has pulled everyone in in with his lies, and this is the actually first time . I have ever responded in public or on any socail platform.  This man is on a one way ticket trip secretly trying to take all sites down, with his little community and his text warriors spammming making fake accounts and posting whatever i stopped taking any notice of this crap months ago, I recently posted a banner on my site to show people how toxic he is telling people how and what they can say on his discord, what about the millions on youtube or instagram imagine if they said no you cant say a video is cool or awesome thats not allowed on my site, what you mean free speech or english language is not alllowed. That within it self tells you everything you need to know . Dazz is a deceitfull brainwasher



#5 wiesshund

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 01:31 AM

Some of this stuff, i was never here for, have no clue of, but

 

 

 

2. VPF claims ownership to anything and everything related to Visual Pinball/PinMAME.  VPF might as well join VPD in trying to copywrite the terms "Virtual Pinball".  Uploading to VPF states that anything uploaded becomes property of VPF. Authors DO NOT have control over their files or the ability to have their content removed from the site if they desire.

 

I honestly am not sure where that comes from?

Paul(Noah) Is the one constantly saying WE DONT OWN THIS, WE DONT OWN ANY OF IT
Unless it is a 100% original table, we are simply borrowing (without asking) content, media, IP, code, Layouts etc etc from Bally WIlliams Stern Gottlieb etc etc.

We can't "own" it, we have no license to "Own" it.

Even if i spend 3 weeks hand recreating a playfield, i did not CREATE it, i simply digitally RE Created it, I can't own it
I own the 3 weeks, it would suck if someone ganked it and didnt even say Hey man this is really good, can i use it in a mod, with all credit to you?
But i cant own it, it isnt my design, i did not create anything, i just copied it.
And i most likely didnt ask Stern if i could borrow it.

 

 

 

4. VPF deters builders from coming up with innovations because he wants to sell his parts and only his parts. VPF does not allow any competing products to be mentioned or sold by community members in the VPF community.  This includes the most popular DIY DMD, [[[[[[[Pin2DMD uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product  ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product  ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product  ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product  ;) ] uses stolen and/or infringes IP. PinDMD is the genuine product  ;) ].

 

What???

Come on now!!!

 

Zeb sells here, gives support here etc
Mike had Pinscape here while he was still doing them

Other people have stuff here.

We have discussions on using 1UP and AT Games cabs as a base for a vpin
That definitely aint Virtualpin.

I am pretty sure if i messaged Paul and told him i wanted to try and hand build my own cab and did he as a commercial maker have any tips
on construction etc, he'd be happy to share some info (Not everything, a guy has to keep some secrets :)  )

 

The site even has banner ads to stuff made by someone else

 

The only thing i have ever run into is i cannot type pin 2 dmd without it eating it and did not know what was up with that before, now i do.

I can still talk about pin 2 dmd all day long, no one closes my thread, i just can not type it right LOL
 


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#6 Noah Fentz

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:45 AM

This makes VPU and Dazz no better, in my eyes, and likely worse, than the dreaded 'VPD guy'. Anyone supporting this crap is right there with him.
 
Surely you don't belive that. 

I absolutely do. All the evidence clearly shows the main components that drive his site have been taken and used without permission, and he knew it was wrong when he did it. How is that not as bad or worse?

How should I see it? How should anyone see it? I'm open to hearing how it can possibly be justified.

Generally speaking,  insanity is understood as a mental defect or disease that makes it impossible for a defendant to understand their actions, or to understand that their actions are wrong.
 
A defendant found to be  insane can assert an insanity defense.
 
In the case of Dazz from vpuniverse and all his rants over the last six months and bashing me and bigus1 and Noah and other people, he just wants his site to be the only one out there, he wants to be the dictator to all the un educated and brain wash them with pure fabricated lies about me and my site and other people, anybody who stands up against him or his community get banned or named and shamed with plenty of fabricated lies, Im the real vpd, not one of his little bandits posting everywhere trying to make me and my site look bad. Im actualy very normal.
 
I have never signed up to his site with multiple accounts or discord.
 
He is the one or someone from his communty who signed up as Terry red and Major frenchy ,
 
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see how and who the finger would point to, Yes ofcourse me and my site.
Well the ip addresses of those accounts were based in the us Dallas , Gee i wonder who that was. I am not Dave or Daryl Im Damian.
 
A lot of you have been brain washed by this man and his actions, with fabricated content and dillusinal posts on his site , he has pulled everyone in in with his lies, and this is the actually first time . I have ever responded in public or on any socail platform.  This man is on a one way ticket trip secretly trying to take all sites down, with his little community and his text warriors spammming making fake accounts and posting whatever i stopped taking any notice of this crap months ago, I recently posted a banner on my site to show people how toxic he is telling people how and what they can say on his discord, what about the millions on youtube or instagram imagine if they said no you cant say a video is cool or awesome thats not allowed on my site, what you mean free speech or english language is not alllowed. That within it self tells you everything you need to know . Dazz is a deceitfull brainwasher

For the record, I do not support or condone your VPD site. You know the reasons, and I'd also like to see it disappear. Respect is a must, man.

As far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to stay and participate like a normal person. All I ask is you seriously consider taking down VPD. It's caused you, me, and countless others nothing but grief. Is it really worth it? I also don't want to wake up to 143 spam posts again (whether it was you or not). Okay? I do believe in giving people second chances.

I'm a baby to this hobby.  I don't know anything about anything.  I got sucked  in quickly though.  It only took me a couple of days of research to identify that there was one leading forum for virtual pinball information and then there were the rest.  I initially found some decent content at VPU but was quickly turned off by the childish back and forth going on between VPU and VPD, and I now try to avoid them.
 
Please, please, please, don't get sucked into that cesspool.  People are drawn here because of the members and the content.  Try to keep your focus there, I'm sure that's what has made you successful.
 
Those of us who don't know the whole truth will probably figure it out on our own, and those that can't, maybe it's best they move along.
 
Just my opinion, of course.  I already admitted I don't know anything.

Just clearing things up for posterity. One can only take so many lies before it's time to call bullshit.

Enjoy the site. It's a great hobby! :)

IdleReel.gif RumbleDMD.jpg HS2-DMD.jpg SBM.jpg ww_logo.jpg EK.jpg

 
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Whether You Believe You Can, Or You Can't, You Are Right." - Henry Ford
The future of pinball lives, it just needs to be nurtured!
If you're here to stab me in the back, you're going to have to get in line.


#7 chepas

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 10:49 AM

...

 

What a load of drivel. You're no better, in fact, 100% worse because you take all the content from here, VPU and wherever else.

 

If people knew this then they wouldn't give you the time of day, traffic or money.


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#8 bigus1

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 01:35 PM

Post-Thaliban Dazzganistan is a disaster. People are in hiding, free speech and protest is banned and the poorest have limited access to basic services. Education is very limited and people are flogged in public for straying from Thaliban doctrine. And the world just watches them crumble because Dazzganistans' leaders welcomed their arrival.



#9 Pin-Pete

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 03:59 PM

What a cyber BS attack from these two.


Greetings:Petri


#10 johnsland8

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 04:50 PM

.

I'm a baby to this hobby.  I don't know anything about anything.  I got sucked  in quickly though.  It only took me a couple of days of research to identify that there was one leading forum for virtual pinball information and then there were the rest.  I initially found some decent content at VPU but was quickly turned off by the childish back and forth going on between VPU and VPD, and I now try to avoid them.
 
Please, please, please, don't get sucked into that cesspool.  People are drawn here because of the members and the content.  Try to keep your focus there, I'm sure that's what has made you successful.
 
Those of us who don't know the whole truth will probably figure it out on our own, and those that can't, maybe it's best they move along.
 
Just my opinion, of course.  I already admitted I don't know anything.

Just clearing things up for posterity. One can only take so many lies before it's time to call bullshit.

Enjoy the site. It's a great hobby! :)

 

I totally get that!

 

One of the main things that spurred my response is that ONE of the people involved here (I know who, I'm not saying) made the decision to post a street sign on their site with the word "RETARDED" on it.  I think anyone with a modicum of intellect knows where that word falls in our language today and using it that way speaks directly to that persons character.  If, and that's a big IF, there was any truth to what they were saying, they would instantly lose any credibility, and certainly all respect, they may have otherwise garnered.  Now, I better step down off this box before I fall...
 



#11 Noah Fentz

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:41 PM

What a cyber BS attack from these two.

You've been around since pretty much day one. Amazing how VP history has been rewritten to further others' agendas, eh?

Remember in 2009 when we had, maybe, 2 dozen active members?

Yeah, I had nothing to do with that changing, AND I've broken all the rules i had a hand in making, right? [/sarcasm] Lol.

.

I'm a baby to this hobby.  I don't know anything about anything.  I got sucked  in quickly though.  It only took me a couple of days of research to identify that there was one leading forum for virtual pinball information and then there were the rest.  I initially found some decent content at VPU but was quickly turned off by the childish back and forth going on between VPU and VPD, and I now try to avoid them.
 
Please, please, please, don't get sucked into that cesspool.  People are drawn here because of the members and the content.  Try to keep your focus there, I'm sure that's what has made you successful.
 
Those of us who don't know the whole truth will probably figure it out on our own, and those that can't, maybe it's best they move along.
 
Just my opinion, of course.  I already admitted I don't know anything.

Just clearing things up for posterity. One can only take so many lies before it's time to call bullshit.

Enjoy the site. It's a great hobby! :)
 
I totally get that!
 
One of the main things that spurred my response is that ONE of the people involved here (I know who, I'm not saying) made the decision to post a street sign on their site with the word "RETARDED" on it.  I think anyone with a modicum of intellect knows where that word falls in our language today and using it that way speaks directly to that persons character.  If, and that's a big IF, there was any truth to what they were saying, they would instantly lose any credibility, and certainly all respect, they may have otherwise garnered.  Now, I better step down off this box before I fall...
 
I can't promise I'll always be PC, but that's definitely not something I'd be cool with. Treat others as you'd want to be treated ...

Pretty simple.

Let me know if you need any help with the software. I help folks daily at my day job. ;)

IdleReel.gif RumbleDMD.jpg HS2-DMD.jpg SBM.jpg ww_logo.jpg EK.jpg

 
T2.jpg Sorcerer.jpg Breakshot.jpg Firepower.jpg GorGar.jpg StarTrek.jpg


My Photobucket Resources
Whether You Believe You Can, Or You Can't, You Are Right." - Henry Ford
The future of pinball lives, it just needs to be nurtured!
If you're here to stab me in the back, you're going to have to get in line.


#12 toxie

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 08:45 PM

I know i shouldn't enter this type of discussion, as it is very toxic  :/ , but some things i like to comment on/clarify

 

 

1. Basic SAM emulation was secretly added by Destruk (PinMAME Team) and VPF to a private DLL. The DLL's containing SAM emulation were found on commercially available GlobalVR/UltraPin machines, in which contained tables created by... you guessed it Destruk and a couple others from VPF. This SAM emulation was made specifically for and reportedly *sold* to GlobalVR.  It was being held back by VPF and the PinMAME team mebers at the time. It was to be only shared privately, along with horribly built tables, amongst only the elite members on VPForums. I personally had nothing to do with the initial code leak being made public, but the posted did release it on Christmas Eve on VPU.  VPU did take the broken / unfinished code, added LE rom support, fixed the bugs in the code and released the DLLs for it to the public. Yes, this may have been a tunring point for VPU at the time, but the site wasn't created specifically for that. Yes, we went against VPF's rules.  We changed the rules and released tables using SAM emulation... rules that, to this day, no single person has ever seen in writing or have any proof of. It's just been passed around as a rule of thumb.  Has anything ever come out of releasing that code? No; if anything it furthered and engineered a new era of Virtual Pinball.


2. VPF claims ownership to anything and everything related to Visual Pinball/PinMAME.  VPF might as well join VPD in trying to copywrite the terms "Virtual Pinball".  Uploading to VPF states that anything uploaded becomes property of VPF. Authors DO NOT have control over their files or the ability to have their content removed from the site if they desire.

 

SAM emulation: There was always a reason why we, as the PinMAME team, did not officially release SAM emulation back then. We used the same rules that we 'inherited' from MAME back then, as they didn't want to screw with arcade sales, which we also thought to be a good idea in general. So not a rule that VPF 'invented', but something that the MAME/PinMAME teams decided on their own!

And even as it was leaked (where i honestly have no clue who put the dll out in the wild, and also who disassembled it, as even i personally did not have the SAM source/dll back then, but only the original coders!) we did not release the official SAM source, but waited until we did comply with these old rules.

And btw: From my memory the leaked source even first popped up in a VPF post.

And also from my memory, "VPU" did not extend that source, but individual coders that were always active on all forums! And then these improvements were again picked up into the official source (which also was improved in the meantime).

VPF claims: VPF claims nothing regarding VP or PM, at least i never experienced it like that at any point.

I hope i can speak for the 2 whole teams, but my impression is that we always saw and still see it as the forums we check the most regularly, and where we post new stuff first. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I personally never understood why this drama between the different communities existed, as my impression was mostly that the majority comes along well, but only certain individuals do not get along and somehow this seems to amplify things. So i sincerely hope we can just get back to our favorite hobby now.



#13 Itchigo

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 01:19 AM

Let me be clear, I'm not taking sides in any way. I think both sites have a lot to offer and are good for the community. I don't think any one site should have it all, no matter who it is. Competition makes us better, right?

 

I do remember the Sam code coming out, it came out in a thread titled "Merry Christmas". I don't remember seeing a name, maybe someone made an account just to do that.

 

I remember hearing the "3 year agreement". Truthfully, I thought it was bullshit myself. However, I did actually find it at PN, so it does exist. It was very buried, so it wasn't easy to find (back then).

 

As far as the original VPF closing, that was before my time. However, after I started my site, I became friends with AJ. This is what he told me about VPF closing.

 

aj1..jpg

 

 


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#14 wiesshund

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 03:06 AM

So i sincerely hope we can just get back to our favorite hobby now.

 

Strippers?

Who is driving? I can't, i only have a motorcycle, we won't all fit.


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#15 sh987

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 03:55 AM

I'll never understand the drama in the various gaming communities, but I do know in my time here since 2009, that this has always been THE pinball site I've trusted and turned to for the amazing content and knowledge the posters have. For years, it was so I could play on my desktop computer, and when I decided it was time to build my own proper cabinet, I knew where to go. I've scarcely posted, but do enjoy reading. Paul/Noah: thank you for what this site provides, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this sort of foolishness.



#16 Noah Fentz

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 04:48 AM

[...] I personally never understood why this drama between the different communities existed, as my impression was mostly that the majority comes along well, but only certain individuals do not get along and somehow this seems to amplify things. So i sincerely hope we can just get back to our favorite hobby now.

I'm not sure if that's rhetorical, and don't feel obligated to reply, but the answer to that is simple ...

In order for someone to have their 'own' site, the easiest and fastest way to build a user base is to change the general perception of the existing one. From experience, I can tell you there's been a lot of 'dirty pool' politics to change the perception of VPF, and me as a person. As illustrated here, the lies have been mounting over the years as the want for 'exclusivity' became greater and greater. Randr did it with the claim I sold fully loaded cabinets, Dazz has taken multiple avenues of pure bullshit, and I guess if people hear it enough, they start to believe it. What a shame.

Randr would tell me vpinball was just him dabbling in site building and just a hobby, not competition, yet it was labeled the #1 virtual pinball community. It was pretty clear he was being disingenuous.

If those two had just taken a SECOND to call, or have someone call, VirtuaPin, they would have learned no amount of money could buy a fully loaded cab from me, but that's not at all what it was about. It wasn't about the truth. It was about changing the perception. I've been absolutely disgusted with it, so I just remained silently in the background, while embracing my cabinet work. I got to enjoy my favorite hobby 24/7, without the confrontation. I hate confrontation.

I obviously shouldn't have remained silent. I should have called out the bullshit a long time ago, and now the damage is done.

I, too, would like to go back to the hobby I enjoy. It's difficult. What I see now is a bunch of people resentful toward me, unwilling to give back to our site, and it's hard to not return the resentment. From my perspective, they're in the wrong for not giving back, and no amount of discussion can change their minds when they believe I'm the guy they've heard all this crap about.

I poured every minute of every day into this site for 3 years to bring this hobby back from the brink of oblivion. I'm in my 17th year now. :) It was the running joke that this hobby was dead and no amount of effort would bring it back. Boy, did I prove Bob5453 wrong! Lol Miss ya, Bob!

Seeing this snubbing attitude just shows how much damage these guys have done to my reputation and that of VPF, all just to fracture this community more and more, just to further their own agenda.

'VPD guy' created the perfect storm for Dazz, and now, people are convinced the download limits are needed to prevent scraping. More bullshit! It's all FREE! EVERYONE should be playing VPX tables. It's not a private club, it's a hobby of sharing and promoting pinball! No amount of paywalls are going to stop assholes from taking what they want, so enough already.

... and that's why there's conflict from my end.

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Whether You Believe You Can, Or You Can't, You Are Right." - Henry Ford
The future of pinball lives, it just needs to be nurtured!
If you're here to stab me in the back, you're going to have to get in line.


#17 goodvibes

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 07:24 AM

 

...

 

What a load of drivel. You're no better, in fact, 100% worse because you take all the content from here, VPU and wherever else.

 

If people knew this then they wouldn't give you the time of day, traffic or money.

 

 

 

Well I guess your wrong there with your quote

 

Our site is completly free Everything No download Limits No Waiting No Subscriptions No Paywall Guess you check before you spout



#18 Robbbert

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 09:44 AM

I'm a total noob in the pinball scene, and all this drama comes as quite a surprise. I played pinballs a lot as a kid, but moved on as they disappeared. Recently I thought I'd indulge in it again, only to find that all the major pinball sites require membership before downloading anything. So firstly I tried a place called VP Universe, but my account request was ignored, and no emails ever arrived. After a few days I gave up and deleted my request. I don't know if they are accepting new members. So, next place was here, which there was no trouble joining. I was hoping to discuss emulation with the pinmame devs, but I don't even know if this is the right place or if I should go to some other forum.

 

Until now I hadn't heard of VPD, so I visited - and you have to sign up. Oh well, so much for that. I don't know what VPM is. I haven't owned a pinball machine since the late 80s (I had a "300" gottlieb, but sold it for $100 when I moved house). I want to learn about Visual Pinball and maybe even download & try it out.

 

The drama makes me sad, especially when it's so unnecessary. But it's human nature I suppose.



#19 wiesshund

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 10:33 AM

 

 

...

 

What a load of drivel. You're no better, in fact, 100% worse because you take all the content from here, VPU and wherever else.

 

If people knew this then they wouldn't give you the time of day, traffic or money.

 

 

 

Well I guess your wrong there with your quote

 

Our site is completly free Everything No download Limits No Waiting No Subscriptions No Paywall Guess you check before you spout

 

 

LoL

 

Your site changes formats more than women change hats
It was just recently pay only (Cant deny it, cause i'll just show you the snap shot of it)

It basically said

So sorry, everyone must now buy a membership
And if you had a bronze member ship, too bad piss off, you aren't included.

 

Loved how you dumped on your bronze members, that was classy


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#20 goodvibes

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 10:50 AM

 

 

 

...

 

What a load of drivel. You're no better, in fact, 100% worse because you take all the content from here, VPU and wherever else.

 

If people knew this then they wouldn't give you the time of day, traffic or money.

 

 

 

Well I guess your wrong there with your quote

 

Our site is completly free Everything No download Limits No Waiting No Subscriptions No Paywall Guess you check before you spout

 

 

LoL

 

Your site changes formats more than women change hats
It was just recently pay only (Cant deny it, cause i'll just show you the snap shot of it)

It basically said

So sorry, everyone must now buy a membership
And if you had a bronze member ship, too bad piss off, you aren't included.

 

Loved how you dumped on your bronze members, that was classy

 

 

 

There is no need to carry this on, all sites change and evolve just as we have, its all a learning game and funny enuff most of those were spammers hence why i made the decission to close the site, but now i have moderation setup correctly, its fine, whatever your thoughts are or have been its time to move on, Im not going anywhere. I dont want to inpolite to you or anyone here i have seen some of the nasty things been posted on here by my imposters tryting to make me look bad, You know blah blah, My site is free No limits