37 replies to this topic

[parabolic]

Really want to get into table building. But I have to start somewhere. As Ive been reverse engineering to learn VPX, Its a very tough task when im sure theres some better ways to do things.

Ive searched for tutorials on building and most are for VP9 or earlier. The few I found for VPX (jaws table) have no sound or instruction, so since I dont know enough about VPX, its kinda difficult to know whats going on in them.

SO....

 

I figured the best way is to start by converting a VP9 to VPX. The way Ive been trying is to take the "new" table and remove most of the items and pick a  playfield and start building objects. Using the VP9 table for reference. Although this is helping me learn, I think there may be a better way with quicker results. Some of you guys just churn the tables out where it takes me hours just to get some walls made.

Thanks!!

 

[toxie]

One thing is to definetly be familiar with the changelog.txt and commandreference.txt.

Then there is a write-up on most of the physics changes here: https://github.com/c...ki/VP10-Physics

 

The rest should be answered by actual table authors.. 

[hmueck]

What would you like to know? VP9&10 aren't thaaat different. Okay, maybe they are.

I'm just thinking loud here:

--
VP10 has a rubber element which makes adding rubbers a breeze.
Bumpers no longer have lights built-in.
Materials are a whole new thing. But the built-in materials from the default table are more than enough. Just the "Plastic with an image" for plastics should get an opacity of 0.999.
Lights became more advanced and easier at the same time (fadings lights built-in, shine through plastics built-in)
I haven't figured out flashers yet.

Most new stuff comes from using primitives, and those already worked in VP9.16. Primitives from Future Pinball mostly: http://www.vpforums....e=4#entry270936

The easiest way to figure out VP10 is to import the oldest table with the least amount of workarounds you can find (VP8 table probably). No fading lights, no alpha-plunger, no drop-walls-lights, etc. You should remove all this stuff in VP10.
After you reset and adjust the physics and add materials to all elements, the table should work fine. Add better images if you have, add GI lights and the table is updated to VP10. Finetuning would be to replace table elements with primitives (pegs, gates-tops, spinner-tops) and new rubbers.
--

I'm thinking about screen casting table building sessions. Twitch maybe? But this would be hours and hours of boring footage of me clicking in photoshop, moving around control points in VP, etc. How is this helpful?!? Is it?

[fuzzel]

I recommend doing the following rough steps:

 

1. after loading the VP9/8 table. Select all elements on the table and then do Edit->Set Default Physics. This will reset all custom physic settings of the collidable elements to default values. So you have a good starting point for the VPX physics engine.

2. simply try to play the table. You will get script errors because VP9 tables use fading lights  with ramps/flashers/bumpers and other tricks to fake lighting. This must be replaced with the new/changed VPX elements. For the fading light routines for instance you can simply remove that completely from the table and replace it with a much easier method. Check other VPX tables to learn how. Same goes for the global table light settings.

3. if you fixed all the script errors the table will be playable but you have to assign materials to each visible element. Again take a look at other VPX tables for materials and how they are defined.

 

The rest is simply the same like in VP9. Optimize images with your favourite image editing tool (Photoshop, Gimp or whatever) and/or 3D editing tool (Blender, 3DSMAX and so on).

[wrd1972]

So what is the larger picture srategy for VP10 tables going forward?

 

Will all of the current VP9 tables simply be converted and declared VP10 tables?

Will all new VP10 tables be created from scratch...not up-convert?

Will there be a dedicated VP10 table collection added to the download section in the same way we have one for VP9...assuming yes?

[jukedock]

In a cab you will be able to run both VP9.exe and vp10.exe within Pinball X. 
VP9 wont be deleted as from what I gather Vp10 wont play VP9 games (it will load them).

Just install VP10 into a seperate folder. 

At the moment I have 3 instances of VP9 running (one normal and two modded versions), and I do not mind in the slightest using a few more GB of my hard drive space when VP10 gets released.

Obviously some  tables will be updated by authors, but a lot of games will be done 'from scratch' using VP10.

 

Some stunning games exist on VP9 that I will leave in my cab until better versions get released for VP10.

It is still in BETA developement so things will change still.  I dont know how close they are at getting a 'full' version.

Uncle Willy (I think) plans to release 4 VP10 tables when it is released

[hmueck]

Will all of the current VP9 tables simply be converted and declared VP10 tables?

You won't find enough volunteers to do this.

Will all new VP10 tables be created from scratch...not up-convert?

As always, there will be converted tables and tables created from scratch. And stuff in the middle.

Will there be a dedicated VP10 table collection added to the download section in the same way we have one for VP9...assuming yes?

Yes. http://www.vpforums....&hl=vp10&page=1

[Les73gTx]

--

I'm thinking about screen casting table building sessions. Twitch maybe? But this would be hours and hours of boring footage of me clicking in photoshop, moving around control points in VP, etc. How is this helpful?!? Is it?

 

 I think this is a great Idea, Hitting the important concepts in detail and maybe 5x speed through the "boring" photoshop process. I would still leave it in the video just so we could all get to see the creation take shape. Break it up into many parts so it is easy to find and access if you are stuck on a particular building step.

[Slydog43]

+1

[hmueck]

Should i create a part 2?
Should i split part 2 into more parts - one for each kind of table element?

[parabolic]

 Should i create a part 2?
Should i split part 2 into more parts - one for each kind of table element?

YES!! Please!

[parabolic]

edit: Deleted

Edited by parabolic, 17 May 2015 - 06:09 PM.

[hmueck]

I was just answering your post and you edit it. Dude!

[hauntfreaks]

Should i create a part 2?
Should i split part 2 into more parts - one for each kind of table element?

 

see now this is what the community has needed!!... thank you sir!!....   patiently waiting for part 2

[Slydog43]

Thanks so much for the video, please continue on.

[parabolic]

I was just answering your post and you edit it. Dude!

LOL!! Sorry about that - I figured it out it was in the initial script. I copied over that part from another table and it worked! 

Been following your tutorial all afternoon - THANKS SO MUCH!! 

Cant wait for another part!

[hmueck]

I figured it out it was in the initial script. I copied over that part from another table and it worked! 
Been following your tutorial all afternoon - THANKS SO MUCH!!

The table used db2s, you probably don't have the directb2s Server installed.

I wouldn't call it a tutorial, or is it? I just record what i'm doing. A real workshop was/is this thread: http://www.vpforums....?showtopic=2006
There will be a part 2 nonetheless. Maybe i can make it more tutorial-like by explaining more.

[hmueck]

Somebody asked for the primitives pdf and meshes etc.

They are from this post:

http://www.vpforums....e=4#entry270936

[parabolic]

I wouldn't call it a tutorial, or is it? I just record what i'm doing. A real workshop was/is this thread: http://www.vpforums....?showtopic=2006
There will be a part 2 nonetheless. Maybe i can make it more tutorial-like by explaining more.

Well...I guess I learn well this way. For the most part it's step by step to get something up and running.....exactly why I started this thread. Also the link you provided is good, however, with all the changes in VPX it's good to have a tutorial that deals just with the new version and it's features.

[kore64]

Should i create a part 2?
Should i split part 2 into more parts - one for each kind of table element?

Thank you very much for taking the time to make this video.

 

I have always wanted an excuse to learn photoshop and get better at scripting in general, but never really had anything to do with it. I lost interest quickly when I had no avenue to apply it to.

 

I am sure I wont be releasing any tables any time soon, but at least now I can tinker and not spend all of my time trying every button and try and figure out what to do with it or what i just did. There is a whole lot of material here, but being new to all of this. I would not know what were old methods and what are the latest ones.