22 replies to this topic

[Carny_Priest]

This is an interesting thread that came up in TPA forums. I wonder if it has any positive implications for VP (or FP for that matter)?

I can't test myself as my cab is currently disassembled, but thought I'd relay the information here:

 

http://pinballarcade...w-nvidia-driver

 

 

[freneticamnesic]

TPA looks good but VP doesn't support anything greater than 1920x1080 it looks like

FP looks amazing

[StevOz]

Well VP did support 1600x1200, till the old girl died, so I'd say at least 1920x1200 should be good to go, really wished I had grabbed one of them, wrong special Dell price a week after...

[freneticamnesic]

oh mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn fp looks so good, I wish I could screen capture this...............................

[unclewilly]

I think i had vp running in 3200 x 1080 on my ultrabook. Looked really good but the intel 4400 graphics card could keep up with the rendering so it was really choppy

[toxie]

You can just change the resolution to whatever you like in the registry if it doesn't show up in the settings (Player->Height and Player->Width). We obviously never planned these new modes in as it cannot be detected (AFAIK).

But its cool to see that finally one can replace the IMHO oldskool MSAA with real oversampling.

 

EDIT: Okay, forget about that, doesn't work anymore in VP9.9/10.0..  :/

Seems like we have to fix this later-on..

Edited by toxie, 31 October 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[lio]

I guess VP needs a real fullscreen mode again after all :-)

[Carny_Priest]

Tried out the DSR feature. I have a GTX 660 and a GT610. I can get up to 2k resolution. Don't know if the GT610 is holding me back from 4k. Even so, it does make a noticeable improvement with FP, TPA, as well as Pinball FX2. It's definitely worth a try if you have a supported card. Results are outstanding.

 

Unfortunately, DSR is not compatible if you are using custom resolutions. You can have one or the other but not both. I use a custom resolution on my third screen for VP/VPM DMD. Hard choices. Or maybe there is a workaround.

[lio]

VP currently doesn't support anything beyond 1920x1080 / 1920x1200 as far as I know...

I tried DSR on my windows desktop and even though my desktop resulution was 3840x2400 in that moment VP did not offer anything higher than 1920x1200.

[Carny_Priest]

Might be able to get some downsampling action on v921. I tried it but VPM crashed. However, I did not change where the display was going to be drawn which may have been the problem, there.

 

My mistake on the resolution capability. I didn't realize that if HD meant 1080p vertical resolution that UHD, 4K did not mean 4,000 lines vertical resolution but 4,000 lines horizontal resolution. It's all marketing speak. In any case, I can get 4x native resolution and select it in FP, TPA, and PFX2. 

 

To me, downsampling looks remarkably better than 1920x1080 with all of the anti-aliasing and filtering. TPA and PFX2 performed fine downsampling from 4K. I used the default level of smoothness. For FP I used a demanding table Aliens Legacy for my testing. The ball was choppy with DSR set to 4x and 3x native resolution. With the GTX660, it performed well at 2.25x native resolution

 

Offloading the third screen on a GT610 didn't seem to have any impact on performance. The experience inspired me to try running all three screens off of the GTX660 for a time. No difference in performance to me whether I was using DSR or not, so now the GT610 is out of my cabinet permanently.

 

Again, the sticking point is that DSR does not support custom resolutions so it's a bit of a deal breaker at the moment. It looks like GeDoSaTo may be able to do what I would like with effort. But I don't have it in me to try to configure all of this at the moment. DSR is essentially a beta feature. I decided to wait and see if the next driver release will support custom resolutions. In any case, it is definitely worth at least trying it out.

[Carny_Priest]

I'm not sure that it is absolutely necessary with the latest driver, but I found a workaround for using DSR and custom resolutions. I've happily adopted DSR in my set up. 

 

For Windows, I use all three screens in native resolution.

 

I only need a custom resolution for VP to render the DMD the way that I want. I use display changer ii and AutoHotkey scripts to change the resolution as I launch VP in PinballX:

 

http://12noon.com/?page_id=641

 

I don't actually use DSR with VP as the max selectable resolution for me is 1920x1080.

 

So, maybe there is no conflict in the driver with this approach. In any case, I ensured that there was no conflict by using ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility to override the standard resolutions read by the Nvidia driver from the monitor profile. Not that I have seen my custom resolution as selectable in Windows or the NVidia Control Panel, but I haven't run into any issues when switching resolutions by script.

 

http://www.monitorte...ion-Utility-CRU

 

I use DSR for FX2, TPA, SlamIt: Big Score, as well as FP. If I understand correctly, GeDoSaTo can downsample DirectX 9/11 based games, but not OpenGL. So, this is the solution for FP. I've found that the Jaws Ultimate table is even more demanding than Aliens Legacy. For me the max I can do and achieve at least tolerable gameplay is 2.0x native resolution. All the other systems work beautifully at 4.0x native resolution.

 

A downside is that to retain video backglass support for FX2 using PinballX you can't have a change in resolution when PinballX launches FX2. You lose the backglass. So, PinballX itself needs to be run at 4.0x native resolution. Video media plays fine, but the scrolling is slower. I'm good with it. Others may not be, but perhaps even this can be tweaked using a custom profile in the Nvidia Control Panel.

Edited by Carny_Priest, 04 February 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Carny_Priest]

I updated to the newest driver set, 347.52, where NVidia is advertising several performance increases for their high-end cards. But whatever they have done has flitered down the line to my GTX 660. I can now run FP very well at 3.0x native resolution with all of the quality/AA effects enabled. Very, very nice!

[Carny_Priest]

NVidia DSR downsampling coexisting with custom resolutions/refresh rates - I just got through doing a clean install of Windows 7 x64 and it took the afternoon for me to figure out how I was able to make this work before. So for posterity here are the steps:

 

1. Go to the NVidia Control Panel and turn off DSR by unchecking all DSR factors.

 

2. Define and test a custom resolution/refresh rate. Need to make sure that it won't crash the driver or harm the display

 

3. Start ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility (link earlier in this thread)

 

4. Carefully follow ToastyX's quick start instructions

 

5. If you are using DSR then you are using an NVidia card - you must select "Custom Extension Block" from the drop down

 

6. Edit the custom extension block to include the custom resolution

 

7. When you are done, reboot or use the restart executable to cycle the graphics driver 

 

8. Run the Custom Resolution Utility again to make sure changes are in effect - the display where you added a custom resolution should have two asterisks to indicate a modification and an extended block override

 

9. Go to the NVidia Control Panel - Display - Change Resolutions - for the display where you have a custom resolution - Click Customize

 

10. Check "Enable resolutions not exposed by the display"

 

11. An option that matches your custom resolution should now be available under the PC section - check the box next to that new resolution and it will now be an available standard resolution that you can switch to in the NVidia Control Panel. I use an extremely low custom resolution, and it does not appear in Windows Screen Resolution, only NVidia Control Panel.

 

12. Turn DSR back on. 

 

With the custom resolution now exposed, it's now easy to create Display Changer II profiles for changing resolutions on the fly for whatever the game requires for top picture quality.

[Carny_Priest]

I upgraded to Windows 10. NVidia custom resolutions are not working too well currently (ver 358.87). Custom resolutions can be defined by rolling back to ver 353.30. However, I haven't found a way to use the trick above to define a custom resolution as a standard resolution in the display profile. I can no longer mix DSR with a custom resolution for the DMD. So until NVidia fixes these bugs, I'll be back to using other forms of anti-aliasing.

 

I only use a custom resolution for VP, so I can still use DSR for FP and PFX2.

 

That said, the video performance does seem better under Win 10 than Win 7.

[Carny_Priest]

I'm able to get DSR working with custom DMD resolutions within Win 10 on ver 361.91

 

So, I am back to using DSR in VP again running playfield and dB2S at 4K resolution

 

Looks and performs pretty well, at least in initial testing. I'm running 10.1 beta rev2505 with Standard FXAA, AO, and anisotropic filtering. I have 4XAA unchecked,

 

GTX660, 2Gb

i5 3570k, 8 GB RAM

 

By the way, FX2 with 4K DSR looks fantastic

[Seraph74]

Hey carny, am amazed DSR is working so well for you !!

Had a toy with it just the other day  i5 4690k, 760 2gig, 8 gb ram and it just destroyed my frame rate !!  Although still played ok weirdly

Kingpin 120 down to 35

I found VP 9.2 doesnt work with DSR

and having to set the desktop to that res made it impossible to work on !!

(have to set the desktop to that res as DSR doesn't work with windowed borderless otherwise)

 

maybe win 10 is the key -- s'pose we'll all have to go there for dx12 eventually  (on 7x64 now)

just hope there is an nlite/rtlite for it !!

[Carny_Priest]

I originally had this working with Win7 x64.

 

I left 9.2 behind a while ago.

 

I don't really look at frame rates. I just see how it plays. You might try turning off all AA.  

[hworths1545]

I have found that a high FPS means nothing with Visual Pinball VPX.  If you are looking for smooth gameplay where the ball is buttery smooth and does not blur, then change settings in VPX to VSync.  You will get 60fps in VPX when you hit the F11 fps key, but the play is so much better than no VSYNC and a VPX fps of 350, for example.

[Kernel]

I have found that a high FPS means nothing with Visual Pinball VPX.  If you are looking for smooth gameplay where the ball is buttery smooth and does not blur, then change settings in VPX to VSync.  You will get 60fps in VPX when you hit the F11 fps key, but the play is so much better than no VSYNC and a VPX fps of 350, for example.

 

Not completely true based on waht I've experienced.

If you run VPX at 60 FPS you get tremendous lag. You have to run it at least at 120 fps to have a decent response time.
I've tested VPX with a 960 fps camera and you can clearly see that there's a HUGE difference on flipper lag.

Same behaviour on PinballFX.

Pinball arcade is locked at 66fps maximum and it'is not so good...
I have to say that also at 240 FPS you can see lag compared to a real SS pinball machine on a 960 fps video, but I can slightly notice it when playing.

Edited by Kernel, 13 March 2019 - 11:55 AM.

[hworths1545]

Visual Pinball performs more smoothly (no screen tearing, lag, or latency) at 60fps VSync mode.

I have had my machine up to 1200 FPS and still performs slower than at 60FPS with VSync ON.